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On May 03 2011 09:02 fredre wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:34 Subllat wrote:
Can somone explain to me the difference between Zerg FE timings and what they are best for
IE the difference between
14 Hatch 14 Pool
15 Hatch 15 Pool
15 Hatch 14 Pool
And so on. Generally, the later the timing on the hatch, the greater the economic advantage, but at greater risk to early aggression. Droning in between the placement of the hatch and pool results in more optimal larvae usage as otherwise there will be 3 larvae idle, but it is at the cost of the short term economy and delays the pool. A 10 ovie 13 hatch 15 pool 18 ovie build will result in the best long term economy, but is quite a bit more vulnerable than the 15 hatch builds.
This is mostly true, I've been doing a lot of 15/15 lately, it has a little more econ umph behind it and can transition into a 17 gas or a much later gas depending on what you scout. However, I disagree with the assessment of 13/15, it's not at all more vulnerable, your pool does of course come a tiny bit later, but you have quite a bit more creep to defend with at your natural and this should not be neglected.
I personally just dislike 14/14, but it's not strictly worse than 15/14, 15/14 gets the pool a tiny bit faster, but I think in some match-ups having the creep to defend even that tiny bit earlier is pretty useful. 14/14 hits pretty good larva timings though.
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On May 04 2011 03:03 garett wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 02:52 Kambing wrote:On May 04 2011 02:27 garett wrote:
didn't want to start a new thread so i will post here.
If as zerg I select all the larvas at all my hatches, and then start builiding units, where do the units will build first?
example: i have my main and natural, with 5 larva each. I select all 10 larva and build 6 roaches. will it be 3 at main and 3 at natural, 5 at main and 1 at nat or maybe else?
thanks for your replies TL;DR: I just realized I wrote too much for a simple answer. Easy to get me talking about something I've been looking into I suppose. In short, you will get roughly even production but the specifics are unknown. === This is actually somewhat of an open question that I need to sit down and figure out one of these days. Here's what I do know via the testing I've done in the past: 1) The order in which you build larva from your hatches is in-order (top-left to bottom right) from the selection of larva obtained when you press the Select Larva command on a set of hatches. So the problem is really determining what order the game places your larva in when you press that button. 2) From observation, it appears that the game smartly orders larva in a group (via Select Larva) so that if there is an equal amount of larva among your hatches, then the sequence of larva in the selection is roughly in a round-robin style . That is, if you have three hatches, then such a selection is possible:
2 1 3 | 3 1 2 | 2 1 3 | ...
where the pipes ('|') are visual aids in demarcating the groups of larva I'm talking about. So if you produce 3N units, then those 3N units will be distributed evenly across your 3 hatches. I say roughly because I've seen instances such as:
2 1 2 3 1 3 |
where 2 consecutive larva from one hatch appear before larva from the other two hatches in a sequence, but never 3. So that gives me reason to believe that there is some smart grouping here rather than the sequence being completely random. 3) The sequence of larva you get from a selection is not stable. That is, new larva are not necessarily appended to the end of the sequence. For example, if you produce all larva at one hatch but not the other 2 hatches, then the new larva at that first hatch will be inserted into the sequence of larva so that it is roughly round-robin as described before. Other than those 3 things, I don't know the precise algorithm that larva is ordered (in general, any selection of units of the same type) which affects whether we get an even distribution with the one production hotkey method. In particular, I only looked at un-injected hatches for simplicity's sake as injections can mess up the ordering (but shouldn't fundamentally change how things are ordered). Besides all these technicalities, we can probably say for certain that the distribution of units is "even enough" for most practical purposes. thanks you sir for your detailed and fast answer!  So if I understood that correctly, if I have 3 hatches, each with some larvae, I select all larvae, build 3 roaches, I will then have one roach at each hatch?
In most circumstances yes assuming each hatch has an equal number of larva (i.e., you've hit your injections at all your hatches). But there may be cases where larva gets bunched up in the sequencing as described above and you'll end up producing 2 roaches from one hatch and 1 from the other instead.
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Is there a way to get a casting maximum range indicator for the infestor?
What I mean to say is that I don't know the range the infestor can fungal growth (even if I did, I can't visualize it mid-battle). I was wondering if there was a way to get an indicator that shows it like in HoN where there is a circle surrounding the unit to show how far his spell can be casted/reached.
Thanks!
I absolutely hate it when I cast F.G and my Infestor automatically runs right into the army.
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On May 04 2011 03:57 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is there a way to get a casting maximum range indicator for the infestor?
What I mean to say is that I don't know the range the infestor can fungal growth (even if I did, I can't visualize it mid-battle). I was wondering if there was a way to get an indicator that shows it like in HoN where there is a circle surrounding the unit to show how far his spell can be casted/reached.
Thanks!
I absolutely hate it when I cast F.G and my Infestor automatically runs right into the army.
If you have a single infestor selected, you should get a targeting circle indicating the radius you can fire before the infestor has to move. When multiple infestors are selected, you do not get the targeting circle.
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Some help please (no answer, a couple pages ago):
On May 03 2011 05:34 dc_na wrote:
How do you adapt the baneling bust for use against P? I have been using the liquipedia ZvT build and i want to know how to execute it against protoss wall-ins. Which BOs does it work against? Should i have the speedlings go for the probe line or take out zealots/stalkers first? Thanks.
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I see what's FF (Forcefield), i see what's FE (Fast Expand), but i really don't know what FFE means everytime i see it on this forums.
Can you help ? Thx.
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On May 04 2011 06:23 Lasbike wrote:
I see what's FF (Forcefield), i see what's FE (Fast Expand), but i really don't know what FFE means everytime i see it on this forums.
Can you help ? Thx.
Forge Fast Expand
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On May 04 2011 06:20 dc_na wrote:Some help please (no answer, a couple pages ago): Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 05:34 dc_na wrote:
How do you adapt the baneling bust for use against P? I have been using the liquipedia ZvT build and i want to know how to execute it against protoss wall-ins. Which BOs does it work against? Should i have the speedlings go for the probe line or take out zealots/stalkers first? Thanks.
Baneling busts are typically less useful against protoss because:
1) zealots are larva-efficient versus zerglings,
2) sentries get out before your bust goes down with a standard speedling opening, and
3) the protoss "wall" is usually manned by a zealot which doesn't require banelings to take down.
Because of this, you typically see early roach aggression (ex. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Roach_Rush_Speedling_all-in_(vs._Protoss)) or pure ling aggression instead. On the other hand, baneling busts can work against fast-forge expands depending on how greedy the protoss gets (usually dependent on what they scout from you). Delayed baneling busts that exploit the timing when the protoss moves out to take their natural can also be deadly but your success will ultimately depend on the protoss's ability to forcefield rather than your own contributions..
If you do baneling bust, then you should be making decisions similar to ZvT. Do I have enough lings to take his army? If so, then take them out and then go for infrastructure until you have enough to take the probe line. Otherwise, dance around, pick off units and deny the re-wall so that your reinforcements can come in and help clean up.
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What's the best way to pick up units without interrupting a moving dropship?
I also asked a few pages ago, considering making a D thread: What's the best way to figure out your play-style?
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On May 04 2011 07:45 Sir Snoopy wrote:
What's the best way to pick up units without interrupting a moving dropship?
I also asked a few pages ago, considering making a D thread: What's the best way to figure out your play-style?
The only thing you really can do is tell the units to jump into the dropship (select units -> right-click dropship) while the dropship is executing a move command. They will chase after your dropship where ever it goes until they get in. Hopefully you've set it up so that the dropship path actually intercepts the units otherwise they'll be running forever. =(
I don't quite understand the second question, but it sounds like a discussion, so yeah, no simple answer. (Although my gut tells me that the answer is actually just playing a lot to see what works and doesn't work for you.)
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Doesn't a drop ship move towards units who are going to get picked up?
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On May 04 2011 07:59 Sir Snoopy wrote:
Doesn't a drop ship move towards units who are going to get picked up?
Yes. If the drop ship is not already doing something, then it will go to meet the unit. However, if it is executing a command (e.g., a move) then it will continue to execute that command while the units run toward it and then try to join up with the units once the command is done. Executing a command on a dropship while units are trying to load into it will not stop the units from chasing the dropship and loading in.
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On May 04 2011 06:20 dc_na wrote:Some help please (no answer, a couple pages ago): Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 05:34 dc_na wrote:
How do you adapt the baneling bust for use against P? I have been using the liquipedia ZvT build and i want to know how to execute it against protoss wall-ins. Which BOs does it work against? Should i have the speedlings go for the probe line or take out zealots/stalkers first? Thanks.
It's pretty similar except that you want to target the zealot (pylon will work if it's in front, but you should still prefer zealot as then you reduce the defensive army), but it's basically just a bad build on maps with a small choke because forcefield will be too easy to cut you off and give them time to get more units / strengthen wall. Ideal is if they have a wall with zealot / pylon (which on some maps you could decide to do on the fly if you open 14/14, but they can still defend by completing wall after you morph banes.
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I have looked for a while but i haven't been able to find it. Can scv's repair mech units while in a drop ship? i would simply try it in a single player game but recently my computer died.
any help would be nice.
Thanks.
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On May 04 2011 09:13 BananaSlap wrote:
I have looked for a while but i haven't been able to find it. Can scv's repair mech units while in a drop ship? i would simply try it in a single player game but recently my computer died.
any help would be nice.
Thanks.
Yes as long as auto-repair has been set on the scv in the dropship beforehand. On the otherhand, the scv cannot repair the dropship itself while it is cargo.
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Hey I know there are some cool little tricks with workers that make organization with them easier.
First I know we all sometimes pull them all off the line, I know theres a way to get the ones that were on gas back on gas when you put them back on line.
Also, isn't there a way to have a large group of them selected, then using your panel click a few of their icons and send them somewhere? Any other tips? Thanks
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On May 04 2011 11:06 Subllat wrote:
Hey I know there are some cool little tricks with workers that make organization with them easier.
First I know we all sometimes pull them all off the line, I know theres a way to get the ones that were on gas back on gas when you put them back on line.
Also, isn't there a way to have a large group of them selected, then using your panel click a few of their icons and send them somewhere? Any other tips? Thanks
1) For drones that you pull off the line with cargo in their hands, you can issue the Return Cargo command (default 'C') which will make them return their cargo and then return to mining the last thing they were mining. The remaining drones need to be sent back to minerals or gas manually.
2) This is called http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cloning. For example, to send workers to gas, you may box 6 workers, click one geyser, shift-click off 3 workers, then send the remaining 3 workers to the other gas.
Other techniques I've heard of include
+ Boxing workers, hitting 's' to stop them, then spamming Idle worker + clicks to spread your workers randomly in the case of hellion harass.
+ Using screen hotkeys to quickly send your worker back to minerals after making a building (e.g., b-s-f1-shift right-click minerals to build a depot then queue up your scv to go back to minerals).
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Q: you have tanks and a handful of other units vs a zerg with ultras and infestors. You are moving forward and see the ultras moving in to attack. The rear tanks are in siege mode, the front ones are in tank mode.
Do you:
-Siege up the front line tanks ASAP?
-Leave them in tank mode?
Seems to me like sieging is ineffective as you waste so much firing time, and the splash hardly does anything vs ultras anyways. Also, by not sieging you can spread a bit to negate ultra splash + fungals, and getting neural parasite on the forward tanks won't hurt as much.
Or am I missing something?
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Thanks but I think there's an even more intuitive way. Like you literally something+click 4/19 for example unit icons and those 4 go somewhere the others remain on their previous track this is with any unit...
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On May 03 2011 23:47 Synystyr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 09:35 bankai wrote:I have some questions that I thought would be common but having trouble finding answers on TL, can someone help me with this: 1) PvT: Assuming Terran does a 1rax/2rax expand, what is the difference in responding as Protoss with 1 Gate FE and 2 Gate Robo (expand on 36ish supply)? I like to use 2 Gate Robo because it feels safer (im only gold player so just wanna get good at one build) but not sure how much of an economy lead I am giving FE terrans. 2) PvT: What should be my response to 3rax build, 4rax all-in, or 2 base 6rax all-in?? Should I just match Terran's barracks count with Gateways (e.g. if they 3rax, then i get 3 gates)?? 3) PvP: If I know my opponent is teching to Colossus, is there a better counter unit composition wise than just getting more COlossus than him?? I tried Immortal dropping but this is quite hard - do voidrays work well?? Or will they get shot down by a mixed gateway army of zealots/stalkers?? Thanks TL 1. The difference between a 1 Gate FE and a 2 Gate Robo is safety. If you know a Terran is expanding, how safe do you really need to be? A 2 Rax expand can pressure if Terran went Stim or Shells, but you should have enough units at that point to handle it. 2 Gate Robo will keep you completely safe against anything an expanding Terran can do to you at that point in the game, but you may suffer a small economic deficit because of it. It shouldn't be game breaking however and it is more about how confident you are in defending early game. 2. Sentries sentries sentries! Good forcefields from the high ground will always make defending large bio pushes much easier. If you scout heavy Marauders, get Void Rays with Zealot support if possible. This composition eats Bio really, really well. At this point in the game, you will have already committed to either a 1 base push or expanded. Sentries are better for defending an expo, while Void Ray/Zealot is good if you are just sitting on 3 Gates with no tech/expand. 3. You need to keep Colossus numbers low if possible. Blink Stalkers are great in sniping Colossi down and will work in a pinch situation. However, if you know way ahead of time that Colossi are coming, Stargate play will shut this down. Phoenix harass will help you get an econ lead and chronoed VRs will melt Colossi extremely quickly so long as you micro well.
Wow what an honor to be answered by both Anihc and Synystyr!
As a follow up questions to the above:
1) If 1 Gate FE vs 2 Gate Robo openers are about safety, as a newbie gold player, is it better to just use 2 Gate Robo for all openers if I am not THAT far behind a 1 rax expand?? At least until I get a grip on scouting and defending early game then I can try out 1 Gate FE?
2) I think I am fine with FF defense if I 1 base against a 3 rax or 4 rax build. My problem is more those MM pushes around the 8-9min mark when I have already expanded and so dont have a ramp. In this case, what should my unit composition be and how do I micro?? FF behind all of the marines/marauders?
3) So use blink stalkers if I need a 'rush' defense against mass colossus (and therefore, if I scout a Robo Bay then I should throw down a TC?), or if i know in advance use phoenix/voids?? Is the best way to micro the voids to just fly around the back of the Colossus?
Extra questions too 
4) In PvZ, how do you stop an infestor/speedling attack?? My gateways get owned and my Colossus get controlled!
5) In LiquidTyler's double forge build, he goes 3 Gate Robo, expand, then double forge. Is the 3rd gate before the nexus only because you suspect heavy bio play coming (e.g. 3rax or 4 rax)? Or is it because you need to mass lots of Gateway units to take full advantage of forge upgrades??
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EPT
