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On April 20 2011 15:16 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 15:14 Kambing wrote:On April 20 2011 14:45 ToastieNL wrote:
Hello,
I'm trying to incorporate more Roach drops, Zergling drops and Baneling drops in my play, sometimes even Hydras. This causes me to extraordinarely over- drop (which is in my opinion the best way to find out what works and what doesn't).
It's to bad this causes me to forget to macro, and I don't send any new drops when I'm microing my current drop.
Could anybody list me some drop tricks, like, is it possible to queue a drop to drop, kill Pylon, leave? I know how to drop when moving manually, but is it possible to queue a drop while moving?
So, actually, I'm looking for qute things to do with drops. Queue-able is great, manual is fine too.
Kind regards, Two things to keep in mind when trying to build up complex queued commands like this: 1) You can add any command onto a unit's queue as long as the unit can perform than action the moment you queue up the command even though it may not make direct sense for the unit to later do it. 2) Unit command queues are wiped when they enter and exit a dropship So in particular, you can't totally automate the process of queueing a group of units to enter a dropship, kill a pylon when they are dropped, then get back into the dropship. But you can queue the second half of it, i.e., after the units are dropped which you can automate, you can instruct them to kill a pylon then queue a move back into the dropship so that they get in immediately after the pylon goes down. Because of the nature of baneling bombs, you can fully automate baneling drops with the following actions: 1) Load up banelings into an overlord. 2) Shift-move a path for the overlord that ends at one end of a mineral line. 3) Shift-d to queue a drop a move on that overlord once it reaches that end of the mineral line 4) Shift-move a path from one end of the mineral line to the other end 5) Shift-move a path from the other end of the mineral line to some safe spot You can actually do better than that, see this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209256
Thank you both, that was very helpful!
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On April 20 2011 14:50 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 14:24 Curu wrote:On April 20 2011 13:54 tarath wrote:
Anyone know of a pro level game where a terran no-gas 1 rax FE holds a 4-gate?
As toss I almost always 4-gate 4-gate if I scout that build as it seems super greedy and I almost never lose, but I'm wondering if that is just because I am a low level player (low masters).
EDIT: My opponents seem to think I'm just a cheeser when I respond with a 4-gate but from my perspective they are being super greedy and I'm not sure who is correct. MVP vs San at GSL World Championship on Taldarim Altar. MKP also uses it against MC on Crevasse, but it was against 4 Gate Stargate rather than the standard 4 Gate. Awesome, will rewatch MVP vs San, thanks.
From personal experience, it's usually not worth it to go 4 Gate against a 1 Rax FE on maps where there is a choke at the natural AS LONG AS your opponent can get bunkers up, is not heavily teching (SixJaxTerran does 1 Rax FE into 2 gas into 1/1/1...dies pretty much instantly to 4 Gate), and has decent micro. Just fast expand yourself.
That said, if it's on a map like Metalopolis, Xel'Naga, or Delta Quadrant where the natural is almost impossible to defend with bunkers, 4 Gate will probably kill 1 Rax FE outright if the CC is made at the natural. If it's not made at the natural, do something like a 3 Gate expand, you can hole him up on top of his ramp for so long that his main will start mining out before he can safely get into his natural.
I love the 1 Rax FE but it's really a pain in the ass to accomplish on any map where there's no natural choke. It just doesn't feel worth it, whatever you gain with your early CC is lost by not actually being able to mine your natural minerals in the near future.
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On April 19 2011 12:06 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 18:47 Timm wrote:On April 18 2011 18:27 Taxo wrote:
I'm only a bronze league protoss player but I want to improve my play, stop rushing and getting a good macro. I'm reading Cecilsunkure's tread about improving so I would like to ask here what would be the best BO (1 for each match up) to help me really learn and improve my play?
edit: if there is a solid PvX build that I could practice wich is usable every mu thats great as well (again not talking about cheese here) but I thought there wasn't so 1 for each mu will be very nice
tnx in advance The standard builds right now are: PvT: 2 gate robo. (or if you are unable to keep your money low start with a 3gate robo and practice to get the 2gate robo down) PvP: 4 gate PvZ: 3 gate expand In bronze you can 4 gate against everyone all the time, but its not very good against terran on the higher levels imo, so learn the robo build.. If I scout a second rax before fact I go 3 gate robo instead, is this bad? Should I FF ramp and get colossus out instead?
If the terran is doing some onebase timing push you cant expand which leaves you with a lot of banked money. So spending that money on an extra gateway sounds good..
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On April 20 2011 16:55 Timm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 12:06 jalstar wrote:On April 18 2011 18:47 Timm wrote:On April 18 2011 18:27 Taxo wrote:
I'm only a bronze league protoss player but I want to improve my play, stop rushing and getting a good macro. I'm reading Cecilsunkure's tread about improving so I would like to ask here what would be the best BO (1 for each match up) to help me really learn and improve my play?
edit: if there is a solid PvX build that I could practice wich is usable every mu thats great as well (again not talking about cheese here) but I thought there wasn't so 1 for each mu will be very nice
tnx in advance The standard builds right now are: PvT: 2 gate robo. (or if you are unable to keep your money low start with a 3gate robo and practice to get the 2gate robo down) PvP: 4 gate PvZ: 3 gate expand In bronze you can 4 gate against everyone all the time, but its not very good against terran on the higher levels imo, so learn the robo build.. If I scout a second rax before fact I go 3 gate robo instead, is this bad? Should I FF ramp and get colossus out instead? If the terran is doing some onebase timing push you cant expand which leaves you with a lot of banked money. So spending that money on an extra gateway sounds good..
Second Rax before Factory isn't uncommon at all. 1/1/1 will die to a 4 Gate and there's not really much point in teching up besides Medivacs (which aren't so hot without a big Bio army) or Vikings (which aren't needed unless you've got Colossus) unless they're aiming for a Raven/Tank timing push.
3 Gate can hold perfectly fine against any 1 base Bio shenanigans; remember that Stim takes 3 minutes now. Go ahead and expand. In fact, 1 Gate FE can be safe against 3 Rax (the strongest one base Bio all-in) if properly played, so you have no worries at all.The mentality behind 3 Gate FE is so you can go on the offensive if your opponent did something like 1 Rax FE, it's definitely not a defensive build.
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On a map like Taldarim Altar. If you are zerg in zvt, and you are mobile. How do you feel about taking a far corner as your 3rd? I feel it's a bit vulnerable, as it's a bit early to be using lots of mins on crawlers, I case of drops. What do you guys think?
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On April 20 2011 17:15 gronnelg wrote:
On a map like Taldarim Altar. If you are zerg in zvt, and you are mobile. How do you feel about taking a far corner as your 3rd? I feel it's a bit vulnerable, as it's a bit early to be using lots of mins on crawlers, I case of drops. What do you guys think?
If they find it, it's dead. They can either multi-prong drop it or siege up their tank line in between your main and third then send a pack of Marines to take it out.
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Right... Is there any point at which it would be feasible to take a far exp in that mu, on such a map?
Btw, how can I stop skype from messing up all the numbers? ^^
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I play Zerg and I'm scared of very lategame Terran transition to Battlecruisers. I try to end up with Ultra ling infestor composition but sometimes the Terran just turtles so well I can't give the killing blow and finally he moves out with 6+ BCs.
How should I respond, if I scout them a bit too late? I've already lost a few games like this.
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Guess I'll repeat my questions in summary, if thats permitted :
1. Can someone give me a solid, not very difficult to execute TvP build? Nothing allinish. I've had limited successes with IoEchoics 1/1/2 but its very difficult to pull of correctly for a number of reasons. I use 2rax FE against Zerg and 1/1/1 against Terran.
2. Just seconding someone else's question: what's the value of a five rine hellion poke?
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On April 20 2011 17:44 Humbuuzio wrote:
I play Zerg and I'm scared of very lategame Terran transition to Battlecruisers. I try to end up with Ultra ling infestor composition but sometimes the Terran just turtles so well I can't give the killing blow and finally he moves out with 6+ BCs.
How should I respond, if I scout them a bit too late? I've already lost a few games like this.
You should have spire already so just mass corruptor and focus fire BCs. Also it's perfect if you have greater spire ready so extra corruptors can transform into BLs.
My question:
At what time does 6 gate push comes in ZvP?
At what time does 5 gate push comes in ZvP?
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say i want to EMP phoenix. do i target the phoenix or the dots beneath them?
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On April 20 2011 19:08 repsac wrote:
say i want to EMP phoenix. do i target the phoenix or the dots beneath them?
The dots below them. They are helping dots to show you where flying units really are.
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On April 20 2011 19:08 repsac wrote:
say i want to EMP phoenix. do i target the phoenix or the dots beneath them?
The dots
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I watch the GSL and I noticed not all terrans get turrets. When I play terran, I build a million turrets every single game. I'm wonder why this is the case? Any chance of skipping turrets better safely?
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On April 20 2011 19:06 Autofire2 wrote:
Guess I'll repeat my questions in summary, if thats permitted :
1. Can someone give me a solid, not very difficult to execute TvP build? Nothing allinish. I've had limited successes with IoEchoics 1/1/2 but its very difficult to pull of correctly for a number of reasons. I use 2rax FE against Zerg and 1/1/1 against Terran.
2. Just seconding someone else's question: what's the value of a five rine hellion poke?
1. There is no easy TvP build unless you're playing against bad players. At the very least you need to have good Viking positioning and EMPs to stand a chance. One thing you can try is
1 Rax FE
Add 3 more Rax (constantly make Marines)
Double gas
Factory with tech lab, research siege and constantly make Tanks
Take third gas
Starport with tech lab, make 1 Banshee to poke around and scout then 1 Raven then back to Banshees
When Starport is making, put on a reactor and a tech lab on Rax, start Stim
Once Raven is ~100 energy, take everything you have and 4-5 SCVs and push out towards the Toss (Stim won't be done though, but you can't afford to wait the huge time). Siege up outside his natural, start constructing bunkers, lay down PDD as soon as he engages. Target fire Colossus with Tanks (they won't have more than 2 at this timing) and kill everything else with Marines. If the bunkers come up, you pretty much win. If you don't kill him outright, transition into mass MMMV with Ghosts.
2. I guess you're talking about TvT. If they opponent went 1/1/1 and made a Reaper and no bunker, you win the game with this push. If not, your poke tells you where the opponent's gas went. If you see a bunker or a few Marines + 1 Hellion, back off and assume Banshees. If you see multiple Hellions, assume blue flame. If you see a Tank, assume early 1 base Tank push. If you see Maraduers/lots of Marines, assume a multi-rax Stim push. If there's only a few Marines, it's probably FE and you may be able to do nice damage with your push depending on your/their micro.
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On April 20 2011 19:50 chongu wrote:
I watch the GSL and I noticed not all terrans get turrets. When I play terran, I build a million turrets every single game. I'm wonder why this is the case? Any chance of skipping turrets better safely?
You mean vZ? The same reason Zerg don't just make a million spine crawlers at every expo to stop drops. They're more for delay since the units you're making (Marines) deal fine with Mutas anyways. It's extremely cost ineffective to make your whole base Muta-proof with just Turrets.
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Aww for serious? TvP is gimped?  Thanks for the build though...is TvP seriously so far in the Protoss' favor?
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On April 20 2011 19:50 chongu wrote:
I watch the GSL and I noticed not all terrans get turrets. When I play terran, I build a million turrets every single game. I'm wonder why this is the case? Any chance of skipping turrets better safely?
Theoretically it's better to not build a single turret, because they cost money.
Against a Zerg, you should check at what time the Zergs usually make the spire then scout / scan. If you see a spire, start building turrets. The job of the turrets is to delay the mutalisks until your marines / thors get there, not to kill off the mutalisks.
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On April 20 2011 19:56 Autofire2 wrote:Aww for serious? TvP is gimped? Thanks for the build though...is TvP seriously so far in the Protoss' favor?
I dunno if I'd say that. 1A vs 1A Toss will beat you every single time, doesn't mean it's heavily favoured for them though  (even though I hate playing Toss with all my soul). There's not an easy solution to any matchup if your opponent isn't horrible. That's what makes SCBW and SC2 so timeless, there's constantly evolving strategies and tricks, no one single "ok I will do this and win 100%."
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If a Hatchery is heavily damaged, how does upgrading it to a lair increase its health? Does it keep the same % or does it add the new max hp to its current hp? Ex: hatchery at 200/1500
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EPT
