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http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/129639-1v1-terran-protoss-shakuras-plateau
I'm a Gold Protoss, and I can't figure out what I should have done in this game against a Terran who opened Mass Banshee. I scouted it and held it off, and built Void Rays to further assist plus support my army later.
When I engaged him, he took barely no losses despite having 10+ Vikings that couldn't shoot my ground army.
He did get his third base up faster due to map control, but I felt that I had to push then or banshees would take out whichever base my stalkers/voids weren't at despite cannons.
My opening is designed to hold off Terran one-base MM pushes which are 90% of the games I play on ladder right now.
(Note my average APM is extremely low compared to most Golds or the Plat I faced here.)
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The banshees weren't the problem. The giant ball of Vikings that tore your void rays to pieces was.
I don't quite understand why you reacted to the banshees with void rays. If I was in your situation I would have made Phoenix or just kept up with the stalker production.
But I don't think that's the entirety of the problem. IMO what hurt you the most is the fact that you didn't scout. Sure your opener might hold off 90% of Terran MM timing pushes but if they aren't doing a MM timing push and you are blindly using this opening anyway... not very helpful.
Also... take the easiest to defend expansion. Your third up in the top right is incredibly vulnerable. Sneaky expansions may be cool but its very much "Play based on hope".
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i havent watch the replay yet, but normally when faced with air terran ( cloaked banshees, viking and raven), i'll normally get HT out asap.
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On January 23 2011 23:39 Crankenstein wrote:
But I don't think that's the entirety of the problem. IMO what hurt you the most is the fact that you didn't scout. Sure your opener might hold off 90% of Terran MM timing pushes but if they aren't doing a MM timing push and you are blindly using this opening anyway... not very helpful.
This, in my opinion, is exactly what broke your neck. If you just had scouted him teching, you could have easily overwhelmed him with a ground force. You shouldn't play based on what you presume will come, you should play based on what you have scouted.
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I did see he was teching, but he had bunkers at the front. With what I had as a ground army at any point, I don't think I could have broken the front. Even scouting earlier.
He had so many Vikings that even if I built only Phoenixes I don't think I would have beat his air force.
I can't use Phoenixes or HTs as attacking units as I do not have the APM. I got Voids because I could later 1A them.
My third base would be vulnerable to banshees wherever I took it. He had so many that all my cannons/probes would be dead before I could react and send Stalkers/air units.
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On January 23 2011 23:57 Soleron wrote:
I did see he was teching, but he had bunkers at the front. With what I had as a ground army at any point, I don't think I could have broken the front. Even scouting earlier.
He had so many Vikings that even if I built only Phoenixes I don't think I would have beat his air force.
I can't use Phoenixes or HTs as attacking units as I do not have the APM. I got Voids because I could later 1A them.
My third base would be vulnerable to banshees wherever I took it. He had so many that all my cannons/probes would be dead before I could react and send Stalkers/air units.
For phoenixes against vikings, you don't have to micro anything at all. You just have 1a because phoenixes can't kite vikings anyway. The only way to actually defeat the banshee/viking combination is to have phoenixes/stalkers/high templars. Air units tend to clump up so you can easily land a money shot.
Every time you take a 3rd base your phoenixes could EASILY take map control. You just need the phoenixes to destroy the air, as banshees + vikings cost a lot compared to just phoenixes. You know fast phoenixes are? They're almost twice as fast as banshees are. You can easily take them all down and proceed to kill the vikings with your stalker/ht force.
Also, voids are terrible against vikings. Using a unit just because you can 1a isn't a very good reason.
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OK. Next time I see that I will assume mass air and go mass phoenix.
I didn't really consider that his starports would have to be producing banshees or vikings all game.
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On January 24 2011 00:45 Soleron wrote:
OK. Next time I see that I will assume mass air and go mass phoenix.
I didn't really consider that his starports would have to be producing banshees or vikings all game.
If you see a starport + tech lab it's really obvious. You scout with your observer, right? Especially if you see that he has more than 1 starport on 1 base.
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United Arab Emirates660 Posts
4 stargate phoenix, dont make voids vs vikings x.x
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On January 24 2011 01:09 PaPoolee wrote:
4 stargate phoenix, dont make voids vs vikings x.x
Woah dude 4 stargate is overkill.
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I'm new to SC2 (and bronze while you're gold) but have played banshee openings a lot compared to other possibilities and been able to experience the weaknesses of the build. It'ss very cost-intense and weak on the defence. Banshees do deliver large damage vs ground but they can't really hold a strong ground army and they die like flies to HT (which can be practiced in the "Psionic Attack" challenge, which includes banshees).
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I like to go one robo and one stargate to get pheniox/colossus/stalker/sentry/zealot off two bases.
This allows your colossus to do enough damage while teh pheniox fight the vikings to make retreating your colossus while stalkers clean up the vikings.
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FYI: phoenix are more cost-effective vs vikings than void rays are, not to mention much, much faster (so you can react quickly to banshee harass) and they do bonus damage to banshees and ravens.
1 phoenix actually beats a viking.
1 viking, however, can beat a void ray (with kiting)
and phoenixes are a LOT cheaper than voids...
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don't go void rays because1 too costly, and also after banshee harrass, u can phoenix harrass, if u have enough micro. But since i think you don't (not that i can either ;() and also try to get hts, not only feedback for banshees but also psy storm for vikings. But while you tech, get stalkers and phoenixes. Also try hallucinations 
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EPT
