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TvP insane tactic. - Page 6

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SpiderWaffle
Profile Joined December 2008
United States125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-21 00:16:23
January 20 2011 23:34 GMT
#101
What do you do against 1 gate expand, or stalker VR rushes? Those are two common builds which I think would beat this build.

I guess stalker VR you make viking first but I still don't think you'd have enough stuff when it comes; no marauders, stim or combat shields, just marines from 1 rax and a viking or two. And against 1 gate expand I think thors + ravens are too slow to break it. I think you'd want to cut the thors completely and get two tech lab rax, maybe switch once raven is done, get more marauders and conc.
http://students.washington.edu/blakep/SCBW/replays/
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-21 00:21:59
January 21 2011 00:08 GMT
#102
On January 20 2011 06:32 hi im new wrote:
code a terran only
code s terran only except 1 zerg
no protoss

clearly this is proof that protoss is imba and terran is a weak race


ontopic: thors are broken.
they kill anything and everything coming from gateways and 250 mm cannons take care of the rest.
people who say dts 'counter' this make me laugh
you know what dts counter? dts counter people who are too stupid to get some detection.
honestly. dts require the twilight council which is pretty costly in itself followed by the fucking dark shrine that costs 250 gas and has a build time equal to the length of the game.






Noone in this thread asked for your shitty post. It's a strategydiscussion. Your post also doesn't make any sense, noone said that Terran is weak and Protoss is imba. "On topic: Thor is broken" you didn't even read the topic am I right? And what do you mean with a fucking dark shrine? You seem to be frustrated. Go out, get a girlfriend.

Builds like this one seem to be too vulnerable to an earlier Push by the Protossplayer. I use to play against my little brother and he's a very agressive Protoss, if I go for builds like this one he usually kills me off before my composition is at its full strength.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
January 21 2011 00:15 GMT
#103
I like your tattoo
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
January 21 2011 00:21 GMT
#104
On January 20 2011 05:04 Endorsed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2011 04:54 Cano wrote:
On January 20 2011 02:26 uSnAmplified wrote:
On January 20 2011 01:24 Rutluv wrote:
People saying those builds must be "patched" must calm down. Maybe if the late game wasnt so tough for terran ppl would stop using these builds so much, I personally hate winning that way, but if you really want to win I guess you have more chances to do so that way than fast expanding and going for the late game againt storms and colossi...
Ever consider that maybe its easier for you to win early games because going all in is a lot easier to pull off them a macro game, or are you going ignore macro terrans success in the recent days and blame your faults on race imbalance?
Yeah, because Protoss players are just better players as a whole. You need to have some special qualities to play Protoss, right? If you don't then you have to resort to playing Terrans.
How much idiocy can these forums bear...
Keep on 4 gating, kid.

I also like how Protoss players are experts on Terrans' late game capabilities. They know as an objective fact that Terran late game is on par with Protoss'. It's just that all Terran players can't use Terrans properly.


Protoss has the sickest amount and easiest to pull off all ins. This all in is probably the only one terran has vs Protoss that is any usefull. Protoss has 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, etc. Protoss is rediculously save early,mid to late. If you keep losing to early MMM pushes you should just get better. Late game toss is the rediculous hard to stop for both terran and zerg. I feel even more sorry for zerg. What do you want terran to do late game. Go battle cruisers? rofl. Stalkers are pretty much cost efficient against them. Thors? Been tried already by painuser. Basically only worked when nobody knew how to deal with it. Tanks? been tried some people still do it, different playstyles. Mech? Yeah maybe, jinro showed great succes. But MC never faced mech before. Right now MMM is just the most effective there is.


Stalkers are not even remotely cost efficient vs battlecruisers, and battlecruisers completely demolish protoss, although it's nigh impossible to get a critical mass of them out.
LaserTurken
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden17 Posts
January 21 2011 22:52 GMT
#105
Played a guy named "OptimusPrime" on ladder, he said he recognized me from TL.

He said something about me making a stupid thread and how easily he could beat it, i ignored this in the game, cause i was "focused".

I won.

You: btw
OptimusPrime has reconnected.
You: im that guy
from TL

you know what was coming
and still you lose?
OptimusPrime: i know ur mother is a whore!
You: great response! you must be like 12 years old..
The player is ignoring you.
Oh hey, nice army you got th.. PSI STORM! FEEDBACK!
HaZ87
Profile Joined January 2011
3 Posts
January 22 2011 00:37 GMT
#106
I try this 4 times, in two work very well against fast colosso then against expo with HT attacking before protoss research storm, but then i lose against a simply 4 gate rush and 3 gate 1 robo

I wall and make 2 bunker, but with only marines and one reaven without energy is hard to stop, what u do against 4 gate or 3 gate robo?
LaserTurken
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden17 Posts
January 22 2011 02:14 GMT
#107
On January 22 2011 09:37 HaZ87 wrote:
I try this 4 times, in two work very well against fast colosso then against expo with HT attacking before protoss research storm, but then i lose against a simply 4 gate rush and 3 gate 1 robo

I wall and make 2 bunker, but with only marines and one reaven without energy is hard to stop, what u do against 4 gate or 3 gate robo?


Post replay, so i can tell you what you did wrong and how you could have defended!
Oh hey, nice army you got th.. PSI STORM! FEEDBACK!
charlie420247
Profile Joined November 2009
United States692 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-22 04:58:49
January 22 2011 04:54 GMT
#108
On January 19 2011 03:25 PJA wrote:
Tactic: Putting vikings over center of the map on xel'naga for safe colossus sniping
Not a Tactic: Build order for a timing attack

Anyway, blindly using this build order seems bad. If the opponent does an early nexus they're going to have enough profit from the expansion by the time that you attack them that you won't kill them. Maybe could work against the safe 3 gate builds where they get a robo before nexus.



^^ im glad you somebody pointed that above point it was hurting my brain lol.

also i am sick and fucking tired of people telling me how weak terran is in the late game. they have arguably the strongest maxed army in the game and are incredibly fucking strong on 2+ base.
there are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who dont.
Dikkbutt
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden193 Posts
January 22 2011 15:09 GMT
#109
It didnt work against me when we met in stacraft2sverige cup
howdy
Crankenstein
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia150 Posts
January 22 2011 15:10 GMT
#110
<3 this opening.

I usually move out with just marines and two Thors making the push a little faster.
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
January 22 2011 15:55 GMT
#111
What if the Protoss techs to HTs and gets Charge as well? HTs would kill the stim marines, SCVs, and feedback the Raven and the Chargelots will clean up the Thors?
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
January 22 2011 15:57 GMT
#112
On January 21 2011 09:08 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2011 06:32 hi im new wrote:
code a terran only
code s terran only except 1 zerg
no protoss

clearly this is proof that protoss is imba and terran is a weak race


ontopic: thors are broken.
they kill anything and everything coming from gateways and 250 mm cannons take care of the rest.
people who say dts 'counter' this make me laugh
you know what dts counter? dts counter people who are too stupid to get some detection.
honestly. dts require the twilight council which is pretty costly in itself followed by the fucking dark shrine that costs 250 gas and has a build time equal to the length of the game.






Noone in this thread asked for your shitty post. It's a strategydiscussion. Your post also doesn't make any sense, noone said that Terran is weak and Protoss is imba. "On topic: Thor is broken" you didn't even read the topic am I right? And what do you mean with a fucking dark shrine? You seem to be frustrated. Go out, get a girlfriend.

Builds like this one seem to be too vulnerable to an earlier Push by the Protossplayer. I use to play against my little brother and he's a very agressive Protoss, if I go for builds like this one he usually kills me off before my composition is at its full strength.


Terrans can defend the 4gate which is a very aggressive push by Protoss with 2 bunkers and SCVs pulled to repair them
Crankenstein
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia150 Posts
January 22 2011 16:15 GMT
#113
On January 23 2011 00:55 .kv wrote:
What if the Protoss techs to HTs and gets Charge as well? HTs would kill the stim marines, SCVs, and feedback the Raven and the Chargelots will clean up the Thors?


I doubt that its possible to get enough energy/HT's to storm the marines and feedback the medivacs and the raven and still have enough charge-a-lots to kill the Thors keeping in mind that charge-a-lots will get hit by storms too when they charge in.
shiNe.
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada120 Posts
January 22 2011 18:23 GMT
#114
haha thats nasty dude.. Protoss would probably be like "oh, he has EVERY FUCKING UNIT, im dead." Gonna try it, good post!
eatpraylove
Profile Joined October 2010
United States53 Posts
January 24 2011 17:26 GMT
#115
Thanks for the build. Other than the time I supply blocked myself it's been working great. I like how this composition gets a lot of damage done without sacrificing detection or AA. Not the case when you spend your gas on marauders & tanks. Stomping on FFs is good fun too.

And I didn't know sentries could shoot through the ground.

[image loading]
Willzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom774 Posts
January 24 2011 18:56 GMT
#116
This build works just like all the other 1 base timing attacks. There is one simple reason it works and that is because most protoss players are greedy and cocky and try to expand and tech up at the same time.

In your first replay your opponent (who is now back in diamond league) underestimated the threat, built way too many probes and you caught him as he was teching to HT. The 2nd was similar, I didn't watch them all.

Artosis did a good vid on how to defeat this class of attacks but protoss players ignore it and trust to luck instead (or have obscene micro).
Barca
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States418 Posts
January 24 2011 19:12 GMT
#117
On January 25 2011 03:56 Willzzz wrote:
This build works just like all the other 1 base timing attacks. There is one simple reason it works and that is because most protoss players are greedy and cocky and try to expand and tech up at the same time.

In your first replay your opponent (who is now back in diamond league) underestimated the threat, built way too many probes and you caught him as he was teching to HT. The 2nd was similar, I didn't watch them all.

Artosis did a good vid on how to defeat this class of attacks but protoss players ignore it and trust to luck instead (or have obscene micro).


Artosis's response to a 1-base Raven timing push was... 1 base Collosus? Are you kidding me?

That's got to be the worst response ever. If the Terran was actually good and pushed at 9-10 minutes with a Raven and a couple banshees, Artosis only had 4 stalkers and 3 sentries. Compare that to the typical Polt timing attack which hits with 1 Raven and 3 banshees and you are dead. You are done.

Oh yeah, also: the guy expanded? So it's not a one base all-in at all. They met in the middle of the map as Artosis pushed. That video does not even come close to explaining how to defeat a 1 base all-in.


And speaking of obscene micro, have you seen his Force Fields in that video? How can people put that video up on a pedestal when it's complete garbage, it's ridiculous
- I hate threads that end with "Thoughts?" -
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-24 19:27:43
January 24 2011 19:24 GMT
#118
On January 21 2011 09:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2011 05:04 Endorsed wrote:
On January 20 2011 04:54 Cano wrote:
On January 20 2011 02:26 uSnAmplified wrote:
On January 20 2011 01:24 Rutluv wrote:
People saying those builds must be "patched" must calm down. Maybe if the late game wasnt so tough for terran ppl would stop using these builds so much, I personally hate winning that way, but if you really want to win I guess you have more chances to do so that way than fast expanding and going for the late game againt storms and colossi...
Ever consider that maybe its easier for you to win early games because going all in is a lot easier to pull off them a macro game, or are you going ignore macro terrans success in the recent days and blame your faults on race imbalance?
Yeah, because Protoss players are just better players as a whole. You need to have some special qualities to play Protoss, right? If you don't then you have to resort to playing Terrans.
How much idiocy can these forums bear...
Keep on 4 gating, kid.

I also like how Protoss players are experts on Terrans' late game capabilities. They know as an objective fact that Terran late game is on par with Protoss'. It's just that all Terran players can't use Terrans properly.


Protoss has the sickest amount and easiest to pull off all ins. This all in is probably the only one terran has vs Protoss that is any usefull. Protoss has 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, etc. Protoss is rediculously save early,mid to late. If you keep losing to early MMM pushes you should just get better. Late game toss is the rediculous hard to stop for both terran and zerg. I feel even more sorry for zerg. What do you want terran to do late game. Go battle cruisers? rofl. Stalkers are pretty much cost efficient against them. Thors? Been tried already by painuser. Basically only worked when nobody knew how to deal with it. Tanks? been tried some people still do it, different playstyles. Mech? Yeah maybe, jinro showed great succes. But MC never faced mech before. Right now MMM is just the most effective there is.


Stalkers are not even remotely cost efficient vs battlecruisers, and battlecruisers completely demolish protoss, although it's nigh impossible to get a critical mass of them out.


BCs vs toss lol? First of all, reaching a critical mass of BCs vs toss is well night impossible vs Toss(as you pointed out), and if they do indeed reach that mass, then that means that the Toss probably has the exact counter to them which is void rays and templar. That massive 200 energy gets turned into 200 damage by the templay, and the voids are fairly beefy vs the bc's terribad 6 attack vs air. Not to mention the void's buff vs massive. If not for the Yamato cannon, then voids would just outright rape bcs. Stalkers however do blow vs bcs.
Willzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom774 Posts
January 24 2011 19:26 GMT
#119
I agree with you that Artosis' video had several major flaws, the terran was not doing a dedicated all-in.

However the key piece of advice he gives still holds true. If the terran is putting all his effort into a killer timing attack you have to put all your effort into defending that attack. Most all-ins feature heavy marine play, protoss can't get HT in time, so colossi are a reasonable choice, since you probably have robo anyway for obs.

There are numerous ways for protoss to defeat the Polt attack, but there are 2 things they should not do: expand and get HT. The Polt attack comes before the expansion has paid for itself and before your HT have storm.
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