EPTTvP insane tactic.
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safari140
Sweden6 Posts
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LeoLeo
Sweden456 Posts
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ScrubS
Netherlands436 Posts
EDIT: could you plz add some more replays? Toss FE close positions on Meta isn't usually working out that good  | ||
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maxtodd
58 Posts
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
On January 19 2011 02:55 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote: That build may make kaoz with them. But how does it deal with Colossi since 250mm cannon isn't researched yet? Although that seems easy adjusted, my biggest concern though would be a zealot voidray heavy army, how do you deal with that? Hmm, the thors works as Tanks, while marines are the dps dealers. Also trade oout the Medivacs against Vikings if you notice colossi or mass VR. LaserTurken.523 | ||
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:07 gr8ape wrote: Stargate Build a Viking before Raven, also, Marines. | ||
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omgbbq2
Canada169 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
I've seen variations of this 2 thor timing attack used by a few good Ts before, such as Baz (currently top 10 NA) and Janook (http://www.sc2builds.com/build/701) | ||
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jamesmax
Canada72 Posts
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
On January 19 2011 02:57 ScrubS wrote: Very intresting variation to all the current 1 base TvP pushes, definately gonna try it out. EDIT: could you plz add some more replays? Toss FE close positions on Meta isn't usually working out that good More replays: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/127896-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/127895-1v1-terran-protoss-jungle-basin http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/127894-1v1-terran-protoss-lost-temple | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
Not a Tactic: Build order for a timing attack Anyway, blindly using this build order seems bad. If the opponent does an early nexus they're going to have enough profit from the expansion by the time that you attack them that you won't kill them. Maybe could work against the safe 3 gate builds where they get a robo before nexus. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On the other hand, I have no problem with all-in-ish mid-game timing attacks, and this definitely looks like a solid one. As usual though, with any mid-game oriented attack, an earlier timing attack like a 4 gate/ 7RR, etc., can inflict serious damage, and hence, can easily counter this. That makes this ok in my book. It's scouteable and defendeable if you catch it early. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtosisTV#p/search/0/d__kxkTd6RM | ||
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Gitch
United Kingdom27 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:36 Gitch wrote: As a Protoss I get totally owned by 2-thor pushes so I think this is a good build. I really don't think a raven adds enough though as I'm convinced stalker-based armies have no chance against this build anyway, so do you really need a PDD? I would just push earlier or get strike cannons. I'd have to agree with this statement that PDD seems like overkill. Instead of a Raven, you could invest that gas instead into a banshee or two + cloak. Save a scan for when you push so you can pop the obs with your thors and let your banshees ride unchecked. Or you could instead use the Raven for turrets if you have enough energy to stop the Protoss from retreating back up their ramp by placing 3 turrets there to block off the ramp. I'm sure once they see a force like that, they'll be wanting to pull back. Edit: Raven is validated by nullifying DT threat. I still feel that PDD is overkill but it doesn't detract from the push at all. Feel free to use the energy any way you see fit. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:36 Gitch wrote: As a Protoss I get totally owned by 2-thor pushes so I think this is a good build. I really don't think a raven adds enough though as I'm convinced stalker-based armies have no chance against this build anyway, so do you really need a PDD? I would just push earlier or get strike cannons. Thor builds pretty much get hard countered by DTs. A raven protects against this major weakness. | ||
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:36 Gitch wrote: As a Protoss I get totally owned by 2-thor pushes so I think this is a good build. I really don't think a raven adds enough though as I'm convinced stalker-based armies have no chance against this build anyway, so do you really need a PDD? I would just push earlier or get strike cannons. DT rushes, so a raven is good. And still PDD is so f**king awesome! | ||
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butchji
Germany1531 Posts
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Hane
France210 Posts
Counters will be vr/immortals/zealots/maybe some sentries, and they are not affected by raven's PDD. Worst, raven can 'force' the Protoss to make units you don't want too see :x | ||
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:53 Hane wrote: yup, you should try making some banshiee instead of useless raven ^^ Counters will be vr/immortals/zealots/maybe some sentries, and they are not affected by raven's PDD Further down the page, it's pointed out that Dark Templar rushes, which otherwise demolish this build, are nullified by the Raven. It's a safeguard for that weakness, and not useless at all. | ||
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JustProbes
United States28 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
The build, as many others terrans all-ins (full rines, maka raks, tank-rine-bunker, cloack-banshee rush, 3raks, polt, thor rush....jesus) sounds strong, but that does not detract the fact that those builds eventually will be patched in some way (or the game will totally fail with the time). | ||
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FreedonNadd
Austria573 Posts
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FreedonNadd
Austria573 Posts
On January 19 2011 04:06 Belha wrote: Terrans should really really stop focusing on "all in" recipes, and try to improve as overall players, Jinro style (and eventually you will get results, as Jinro). True. Ack! Knowing how to play an all-in is fine, but does not improve you as a player all too much. | ||
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
 Their is another thread about the same thing with banshees, the scvs still really mess up the zealot AI making these all ins ridiculous still. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On January 19 2011 04:20 uSnAmplified wrote: By insane do you mean incredibly abusive of game mechanics? even the repair patch hes yet to stop all this nonsense Their is another thread about the same thing with banshees, the scvs still really mess up the zealot AI making these all ins ridiculous still. In the case of this build, two Thors are there and will surely be repaired. Zealots can have a field day with that. While I agree that they really do need to patch the Zealot vs SCV repairing Air, I don't think this build is abusive to the game mechanics. | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
On January 19 2011 04:31 Synystyr wrote: Not nearly as bad, but still incredibly stupid.In the case of this build, two Thors are there and will surely be repaired. Zealots can have a field day with that. While I agree that they really do need to patch the Zealot vs SCV repairing Air, I don't think this build is abusive to the game mechanics. Forums is full of complaining for bigger maps and longer games but every day we see a new ridiculous all in that some random found out by making X units and SCV pulling, its getting really old fast. | ||
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AAforhigher
Belgium6 Posts
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
On January 19 2011 04:06 Belha wrote: Terrans should really really stop focusing on "all in" recipes, and try to improve as overall players, Jinro style (and eventually you will get results, as Jinro). The build, as many others terrans all-ins (full rines, maka raks, tank-rine-bunker, cloack-banshee rush, 3raks, polt, thor rush....jesus) sounds strong, but that does not detract the fact that those builds eventually will be patched in some way (or the game will totally fail with the time). The reason that medium skilled terrans stick to 1 base is that the longer the game (expecially vs zerg) goes on, the more of a disadvantage it feels they are at | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
Phoenix will delay this timing like crazy, sniping ravens / scvs making buildings / mules & SCVs. | ||
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shihou
United States8 Posts
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Brandus
148 Posts
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Barca
United States418 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-181878.jpg) This is the epitome of gimmicky Terran builds >.< | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
On January 19 2011 05:18 Brandus wrote: So basically anything terran can dump out at the 10 minute mark is devastating? its always svc+marines + [thors/ravens/banshees/conc mauraders]. I feel like SVC's are the root of the problem. It shouldn't be so easy and rewarding throw away workers like that. Well, the reason why it works, is because SCVs are very useful early on, as just workers. But once you are at 22 workers on a base (6 on gas, 16 on minerals, and a mule), you are at the same economy with terran as you would be with another race that had 24 SCVs on minerals, and 6 on gas. SCVs are also really efficient damage soakers for terran. Imagining that you would want to do a one base push, you could for example stop making SCVs once you reach 20-25, and use the money to throw down an extra barrack, and make some marines. But just making more SCVs that you dont really need for your economy anymore, provides a bigger meatshield. Protoss works the same way, for a toss all-in, you stop making workers at a certain point, and then you use your macro mechanic, and some minerals to make a melee range efficient meatshield. For toss, its chronoboosting army buildings, and making zealots, for zerg, its using spwn larva to make lings, for terran, its muling, and using the CC to make SCVs to fight. | ||
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xciLe
Norway213 Posts
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
On January 19 2011 05:26 Barca wrote: To all you Toss, here's me beating this build with a 1 gate FE, the mixed tech and lack of army size makes it pretty easy to stop This is the epitome of gimmicky Terran builds >.< You gotta be joking... He made a Thor - IT HAS TO BE EXACT SAME BUILD, RIGHT? Assuming no aggresion: The OP's build at 11:00 has: 2 Thors (1 less than in your replay) 38 Marines (29 more...) 1 Raven (same) 0 Banshee (1 less) 1 Medivac (1 more) It also heavily cuts SCVs while in your replay your opponent had 36 SCVs. He basically sent you 3 naked Thors. You went some kind of gimmicky build too, 33 probes off 2 bases at 11 minutes? Even though you cut probes hard this would just crush you. You had 10 Stalkers, 10 Zealots and 4 Sentries. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On January 19 2011 04:06 Belha wrote: Terrans should really really stop focusing on "all in" recipes, and try to improve as overall players, Jinro style (and eventually you will get results, as Jinro). The build, as many others terrans all-ins (full rines, maka raks, tank-rine-bunker, cloack-banshee rush, 3raks, polt, thor rush....jesus) sounds strong, but that does not detract the fact that those builds eventually will be patched in some way (or the game will totally fail with the time). A maka rax isn't an all in. A cloack banshee rush isn't an all in. Why are you generalizing terran players? There are so many toss players who all in like crazy, most of them got to diamond that way. 4 gate, 3 gate stargate, 3 gate robo, fe into 6 gate all in pvz, according to your logic DT rush is all in aswell. All ins have their place in this game and usually are a response to a fast expand. They won't be patched if they can be beaten. | ||
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Celadan
Norway471 Posts
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
Just when I thought PvP was bad. | ||
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
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Barca
United States418 Posts
On January 19 2011 05:56 Cano wrote: You gotta be joking... He made a Thor - IT HAS TO BE EXACT SAME BUILD, RIGHT? Assuming no aggresion: The OP's build at 11:00 has: 2 Thors (1 less than in your replay) 38 Marines (29 more...) 1 Raven (same) 0 Banshee (1 less) 1 Medivac (1 more) It also heavily cuts SCVs while in your replay your opponent had 36 SCVs. You went some kind of gimmicky build too, 33 probes off 2 bases at 11 minutes? Even though you cut probes hard this would just crush you. You had 10 Stalkers, 10 Zealots and 4 Sentries. Not exactly the same build, you're right. That rep is a couple weeks old, but it's just an example that Thor/Raven/SCV can be stopped. Take that for what it is. And yeah, cutting probes is necessary when you scout your opponent doing an all-in. Sooo thank you for complimenting my response? | ||
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
And do you still fail to see that 29 marines > Thor and a Banshee? For the record, I never used this build, I just see the numbers. | ||
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1-LeeteR
United States78 Posts
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Barca
United States418 Posts
On January 19 2011 06:06 Cano wrote: ^ That just means how powerful this build would be if you didn't reponse properly... And do you still fail to see that 29 marines > Thor and a Banshee? Yup, 1 base raven all-ins are pretty powerful against Toss if you don't respond properly. I could have told you that myself, I still struggle with them all the time. Half of the GSL TvPs consist of them, it's ridiculous. Yeah, 29 marines > Thor, but Banshee > medivac. I think I could have held off still though, marines are pretty susceptible to Force Field with only 1 thor out on the field. | ||
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Teodice
Sweden641 Posts
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
After unsuccessfully breaking a few truly good Terrans I though of how to combat it more efficiently, and then noticed it was almost totally map dependent. The key to killing this build is making cannons. I know, it sounds dumb but cannons, gateway units, and zealot/sentry are what generally keep me alive against this. Even worse than this push is when they delay the push after noticing a 1 gate expand, expand themselves and push out slightly later but right before any meaningful Protoss tech can get up... I'm going crazy versus this build... anyone got a cost effective/fun counter to it? | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On January 19 2011 05:59 Endorsed wrote: A maka rax isn't an all in. A cloack banshee rush isn't an all in. Why are you generalizing terran players? There are so many toss players who all in like crazy, most of them got to diamond that way. 4 gate, 3 gate stargate, 3 gate robo, fe into 6 gate all in pvz, according to your logic DT rush is all in aswell. All ins have their place in this game and usually are a response to a fast expand. They won't be patched if they can be beaten. Well, it all depends on how you look at it, if you ALL OUT RUSH Dt's then you are actually all in'ing... because if your opponent scouts you just as the Darkshrine is beginning then you SHOULD lose. All-in is just a general term for build you SHOULD lose with if your opponent is competent at reacting to what they scout with. If a Terran scouts my slow non-probe cutting DT push and I simply use them to harass a little and get map control to expand it obviously isn't an all in. The difference between the two is the thought behind the build all in being I WILL KILL YOU WITH THIS NOW and simple tactic being I WILL DO THIS TO TRY AND EVENTUALLY SOMEHOW KILL YOU. | ||
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
pretty much any 'cute' trick such as PDD or EMP can be compensated by pure numbers and spamming lower tech from numerous structures. PDD keep your units alive longer, but larger number of units will also keep your units alive longer due to higher dps and collective hp. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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SuNSeT(OD)
Canada15 Posts
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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esc0bar
Canada112 Posts
Edit: I apologize for playing that race  | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
if you feel keen enough get a prism and warp in a few zealots to kill the workers when he pushed out(warning he may pull off all is workers then.) another option is to put them up the ramp and block any marine reinforcements. (or just have a few ready near the enemy base to run in hehe) Thors is probably always a good thing though as most tosses think they can't do anything without forcefields. Just give other stuff a try 2 phoenix to snipe the raven or banshee at the starport after you lurred the marines to the mineral line, by sniping the mule the phoenix already payed forthemself (he will fear continous sniping and go over to drop supply to save atleast a few res). sure people will get used to it if its used often, and build the starport at their mineral line so they will be save against phoenix sniping. But thats why there are so many things you can use for harassment. (loves harassing with toss and zerg terran is way harder to harass successfully at the moment) | ||
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
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Skepticism
Australia3 Posts
http://www.justin.tv/screddit/b/277688512 | ||
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Aratan
United States90 Posts
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On January 19 2011 08:16 SuNSeT(OD) wrote: I still don't understand why people say mule is OP...it is needed to compete with chrono boosted nexus's...and the cool down time...it takes 50 energy to call down a mule as it is. The only way your going to be able to call down 10 is if you do the 4OC build vs Z, and that build although fun can be very detrimental to winning a match. The only problem is that Terran's are using almost half of their SCV's just to add to their army knowing their economy won't be hurt. SCV's can become very good meat-shields and can so repair if needed, unlike probes or drones. Using SCV's just for an all-in doesn't sound right to me, but it's a game, I guess. | ||
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bahl sofs tiil
United States233 Posts
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GypsyBeast
Canada630 Posts
On a more serious note this build has been floating around for awhile now, so it's not "crazy" at all. it gets fucked in the ass hard by stargate play which is getting even more popular. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
But I guess since you said this was an all-in, we can't really discuss this in the same way we should discuss a normal build order / strategy. Since this seems to punish a very greedy Protoss, it'll help to have it in the bag to keep them honest. On January 19 2011 10:14 Skepticism wrote: This looks very, very similar to the TvP build used by Janook vs Liquid`Tyler in the SCRI. If you came across it independently though OP, grats to you, it seems pretty strong. No idea how I'd stop it but I'm terrible, so there you go :p http://www.justin.tv/screddit/b/277688512 I honestly don't know why Nony allowed his Colossus to be raped by 250mm. I can understand the Immortals getting 250mm'ed because they have short range, but Thermal Lance colossus have what, 9 range compared to Thor's 7? For a little while, it seemed like he was going to win that battle, until the 250mm killed both Colossus, so maybe he got a little overconfident when he saw that after winning that battle, he would've killed a ton of SCVs. If he had kept those Colossus alive, he would've won IMO. Colossus can kite Thors all day long, not to mention that he was reinforcing his army pretty well for a while there. The Colossus was not only doing damage, and putting pressure on the Thors to chase them, but they would've helped to kill the repairing SCVs. I'm a Terran player, but that made me sad for Nony. | ||
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GoAudio
Sweden400 Posts
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bobucles
410 Posts
When all is said and done, why shouldn't you have SCVs in your army? Bring in the mech medics! | ||
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Aragos
France182 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On January 19 2011 07:55 link0 wrote: This all-in is actually very weak becomes it comes SOOOO SLOW. The FE toss will have a HUGE army advantage over you by the time you attack. It has virtually zero chance of beating a decent toss that spends all of his money. Although I agree with you, I think the strenght "could" lie within the metagame-effect a starport with techlab has. If you manage to get the raven out before the observer spots the armory, there's a MASSIVE chance the toss will get stargate and phoenixes. At least yesterday this is exactly what Mana did in one of his streamed games, where he crushed a timing push that consisted of a different composition. | ||
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whojohnisgalt
93 Posts
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
Also this is a strategy not a tactic. | ||
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:25 jamesmax wrote: lol, isnt there enough all in pushes? can't we work on things that make the game enjoyable =[ couldnt agree more. -.- and i play terran and even if it wins games i would probably never use it for that reason. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
I don't play that style much but when I try it sometimes I often win I think terran is probably OP. Didn't see myself typing this a while back since i'm terran only but it seems this way. Not trying to start a balance discussion I'm just trying to express how strong I think these builds are I'm pretty certain terran will do fine on bigger maps, just bring back old medivac speed if they don't. | ||
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
watchout for swedish BM, joked around with the guy! | ||
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Tomtaietot
Romania57 Posts
IF i buy a new game - and start playing toss - tommorow (i played random 4 months on beta) - then - after a couple of weeks - i get diamond over 2500 points ( add new bonus pool) - just and ONLY PLAYING 4 GATE ! --------------------------------- Anyway - this is a great tactic - nowadays i'm so BORED of mmm and vikings - this is really new - and IT REALLY works vs all >2500 diamond toss. The SINGLE problem is this - scouting if he has DT ... u gotta have the feeling If he rushes to DT - u really need that raven and have a free win - if he isn't ... u have a free win ! | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On January 19 2011 11:44 iChau wrote: The only problem is that Terran's are using almost half of their SCV's just to add to their army knowing their economy won't be hurt. SCV's can become very good meat-shields and can so repair if needed, unlike probes or drones. Using SCV's just for an all-in doesn't sound right to me, but it's a game, I guess. If it's an all-in, why shouldn't you use the scv's? If you fail you won't need them anyway. | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
On January 19 2011 02:55 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote: That build may make kaoz with them. This realy made me laugh. Im not sure, but I feel like this build should have some trouble with protoss early pressure ? Like 4 gate etc? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:00 LaserTurken wrote: Hmm, the thors works as Tanks, while marines are the dps dealers. Also trade oout the Medivacs against Vikings if you notice colossi or mass VR. LaserTurken.523 My main comment would be to do this the other way around. Don't tank with the Thors when you get into the fight. Keep your units in a ball and then use your marines to tank for the Thors once you get to the P natural. The Thors do as much DPS as about 8 marines and have 2 more range than marines and no P unit besides sentries get damage bonus vs them. They also get completely shut down by forcefields, and guardian shield. It is a common misconception that you should tank with the Thor. The Thor is just 2 siege tanks taped together and doesn't have much health beyond the health of 2 tanks... | ||
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
On January 19 2011 11:44 iChau wrote: How many times will we see that completely false and, in fact, just retarded argument?The only problem is that Terran's are using almost half of their SCV's just to add to their army knowing their economy won't be hurt. SCV's can become very good meat-shields and can so repair if needed, unlike probes or drones. Using SCV's just for an all-in doesn't sound right to me, but it's a game, I guess. So I have 1CC and 11 SCVs mining. This equals to about 15 SCVs. Now I take 11 from that and magically my economy isn't hurt because i have MULE (about 4 SCVs). Give me a break... | ||
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
On January 19 2011 23:28 Antisocialmunky wrote: This is a nice thought. The weakness of the 2 Thor push is DTs. This opts for a later push with more marines and a Raven. My main comment would be to do this the other way around. Don't tank with the Thors when you get into the fight. Keep your units in a ball and then use your marines to tank for the Thors once you get to the P natural. The Thors do as much DPS as about 8 marines and have 2 more range than marines and no P unit besides sentries get damage bonus vs them. They also get completely shut down by forcefields, and guardian shield. you can repair the thors, not marines. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On January 19 2011 23:34 LaserTurken wrote: you can repair the thors, not marines. You can build rally marines across the map faster than Thors. Look at it this way. Each marine tanks 4-6 hits for a Stalker to kill. A Thor tanks 30 stalker shots. Do you want to lose 5 Marines or 1 Thor? 250 minerals worth of unit with 5 range an an effective 2 attack shot vs a Guardian shield P army or a 300/200 unit with 2x26 attack shots? A unit that can't get kited to death by stalkers. Actually the best practice is to spread out the damage between Thors and marines since Thors can be repaired. I think its more useful to have 2 Thors left that can take an infinite stream of units off 4-6 gateways than a few marines left over. | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
feed back raven feed back pdd feedback medivac if he still has energy drop a few storms on the marines | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
thors can destroy ff so spliting the army isnt that effective -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i was thinking of ghosts insted of ravens emp the protoss ball and if you have a great eye and good micro emp the dt | ||
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ScrubS
Netherlands436 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
terran is a pretty dangerous race in terms of mechanics and just how the units work together. it will be very scary to fight them once they stop trying to find the best possible way to all in you off of one base and actually learn to play the game | ||
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XuoriG
Canada165 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On January 19 2011 23:37 Antisocialmunky wrote: You can build rally marines across the map faster than Thors. Look at it this way. Each marine tanks 4-6 hits for a Stalker to kill. A Thor tanks 30 stalker shots. Do you want to lose 5 Marines or 1 Thor? 250 minerals worth of unit with 5 range an an effective 2 attack shot vs a Guardian shield P army or a 300/200 unit with 2x26 attack shots? A unit that can't get kited to death by stalkers. Actually the best practice is to spread out the damage between Thors and marines since Thors can be repaired. I think its more useful to have 2 Thors left that can take an infinite stream of units off 4-6 gateways than a few marines left over. do you even play the game? tanking with thors works like a million times better. 2 thors with pdd/repair is at least 1300 hp of tanking. thors still dps just as well while they're taking damage, marines die fast and can't be repaired. sure there's heal but 45hp still gets bursted down almost instantly. the point is you kill everything by the time your thors die. | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
On January 20 2011 01:24 Rutluv wrote: Ever consider that maybe its easier for you to win early games because going all in is a lot easier to pull off them a macro game, or are you going ignore macro terrans success in the recent days and blame your faults on race imbalance?People saying those builds must be "patched" must calm down. Maybe if the late game wasnt so tough for terran ppl would stop using these builds so much, I personally hate winning that way, but if you really want to win I guess you have more chances to do so that way than fast expanding and going for the late game againt storms and colossi... | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 20 2011 02:26 uSnAmplified wrote: Ever consider that maybe its easier for you to win early games because going all in is a lot easier to pull off them a macro game, or are you going ignore macro terrans success in the recent days and blame your faults on race imbalance? I think it be the latter, my friend. A lot of terrans approach the match-up with such a defeatist attitude. They stay on bio for tvp for 45 mins and get frustrated when a-moving 45 hp units into aoe damage doesnt work like it does at the 8 minute mark. Instead of trying different unit compositions and tech patterns, they conclude that the matchup is broken and don't even try to go into a macro game so they just all in. | ||
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mantas91
Lithuania3 Posts
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
On January 20 2011 02:26 uSnAmplified wrote: Yeah, because Protoss players are just better players as a whole. You need to have some special qualities to play Protoss, right? If you don't then you have to resort to playing Terrans.Ever consider that maybe its easier for you to win early games because going all in is a lot easier to pull off them a macro game, or are you going ignore macro terrans success in the recent days and blame your faults on race imbalance? How much idiocy can these forums bear... Keep on 4 gating, kid. I also like how Protoss players are experts on Terrans' late game capabilities. They know as an objective fact that Terran late game is on par with Protoss'. It's just that all Terran players can't use Terrans properly. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:54 Cano wrote: Yeah, because Protoss players are just better players as a whole. You need to have some special qualities to play Protoss, right? If you don't then you have to resort to playing Terrans. How much idiocy can these forums bear... Keep on 4 gating, kid. I also like how Protoss players are experts on Terrans' late game capabilities. They know as an objective fact that Terran late game is on par with Protoss'. It's just that all Terran players can't use Terrans properly. Protoss has the sickest amount and easiest to pull off all ins. This all in is probably the only one terran has vs Protoss that is any usefull. Protoss has 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, etc. Protoss is rediculously save early,mid to late. If you keep losing to early MMM pushes you should just get better. Late game toss is the rediculous hard to stop for both terran and zerg. I feel even more sorry for zerg. What do you want terran to do late game. Go battle cruisers? rofl. Stalkers are pretty much cost efficient against them. Thors? Been tried already by painuser. Basically only worked when nobody knew how to deal with it. Tanks? been tried some people still do it, different playstyles. Mech? Yeah maybe, jinro showed great succes. But MC never faced mech before. Right now MMM is just the most effective there is. | ||
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On January 20 2011 05:06 Cano wrote: ^ You don't really read between the lines, do you... I was talking to the people you quoted. Supporting you  | ||
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hi im new
Germany150 Posts
code s terran only except 1 zerg no protoss clearly this is proof that protoss is imba and terran is a weak race ontopic: thors are broken. they kill anything and everything coming from gateways and 250 mm cannons take care of the rest. people who say dts 'counter' this make me laugh you know what dts counter? dts counter people who are too stupid to get some detection. honestly. dts require the twilight council which is pretty costly in itself followed by the fucking dark shrine that costs 250 gas and has a build time equal to the length of the game. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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SpiderWaffle
United States125 Posts
I guess stalker VR you make viking first but I still don't think you'd have enough stuff when it comes; no marauders, stim or combat shields, just marines from 1 rax and a viking or two. And against 1 gate expand I think thors + ravens are too slow to break it. I think you'd want to cut the thors completely and get two tech lab rax, maybe switch once raven is done, get more marauders and conc. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On January 20 2011 06:32 hi im new wrote: code a terran only code s terran only except 1 zerg no protoss clearly this is proof that protoss is imba and terran is a weak race ontopic: thors are broken. they kill anything and everything coming from gateways and 250 mm cannons take care of the rest. people who say dts 'counter' this make me laugh you know what dts counter? dts counter people who are too stupid to get some detection. honestly. dts require the twilight council which is pretty costly in itself followed by the fucking dark shrine that costs 250 gas and has a build time equal to the length of the game. Noone in this thread asked for your shitty post. It's a strategydiscussion. Your post also doesn't make any sense, noone said that Terran is weak and Protoss is imba. "On topic: Thor is broken" you didn't even read the topic am I right? And what do you mean with a fucking dark shrine? You seem to be frustrated. Go out, get a girlfriend. Builds like this one seem to be too vulnerable to an earlier Push by the Protossplayer. I use to play against my little brother and he's a very agressive Protoss, if I go for builds like this one he usually kills me off before my composition is at its full strength. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On January 20 2011 05:04 Endorsed wrote: Protoss has the sickest amount and easiest to pull off all ins. This all in is probably the only one terran has vs Protoss that is any usefull. Protoss has 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, etc. Protoss is rediculously save early,mid to late. If you keep losing to early MMM pushes you should just get better. Late game toss is the rediculous hard to stop for both terran and zerg. I feel even more sorry for zerg. What do you want terran to do late game. Go battle cruisers? rofl. Stalkers are pretty much cost efficient against them. Thors? Been tried already by painuser. Basically only worked when nobody knew how to deal with it. Tanks? been tried some people still do it, different playstyles. Mech? Yeah maybe, jinro showed great succes. But MC never faced mech before. Right now MMM is just the most effective there is. Stalkers are not even remotely cost efficient vs battlecruisers, and battlecruisers completely demolish protoss, although it's nigh impossible to get a critical mass of them out. | ||
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
He said something about me making a stupid thread and how easily he could beat it, i ignored this in the game, cause i was "focused". I won. You: btw OptimusPrime has reconnected. You: im that guy from TL you know what was coming and still you lose? OptimusPrime: i know ur mother is a whore! You: great response! you must be like 12 years old.. The player is ignoring you. | ||
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HaZ87
3 Posts
I wall and make 2 bunker, but with only marines and one reaven without energy is hard to stop, what u do against 4 gate or 3 gate robo? | ||
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LaserTurken
Sweden17 Posts
On January 22 2011 09:37 HaZ87 wrote: I try this 4 times, in two work very well against fast colosso then against expo with HT attacking before protoss research storm, but then i lose against a simply 4 gate rush and 3 gate 1 robo I wall and make 2 bunker, but with only marines and one reaven without energy is hard to stop, what u do against 4 gate or 3 gate robo? Post replay, so i can tell you what you did wrong and how you could have defended! | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:25 PJA wrote: Tactic: Putting vikings over center of the map on xel'naga for safe colossus sniping Not a Tactic: Build order for a timing attack Anyway, blindly using this build order seems bad. If the opponent does an early nexus they're going to have enough profit from the expansion by the time that you attack them that you won't kill them. Maybe could work against the safe 3 gate builds where they get a robo before nexus. ^^ im glad you somebody pointed that above point it was hurting my brain lol. also i am sick and fucking tired of people telling me how weak terran is in the late game. they have arguably the strongest maxed army in the game and are incredibly fucking strong on 2+ base. | ||
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Dikkbutt
Sweden193 Posts
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Crankenstein
Australia150 Posts
I usually move out with just marines and two Thors making the push a little faster. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On January 21 2011 09:08 supersoft wrote: Noone in this thread asked for your shitty post. It's a strategydiscussion. Your post also doesn't make any sense, noone said that Terran is weak and Protoss is imba. "On topic: Thor is broken" you didn't even read the topic am I right? And what do you mean with a fucking dark shrine? You seem to be frustrated. Go out, get a girlfriend. Builds like this one seem to be too vulnerable to an earlier Push by the Protossplayer. I use to play against my little brother and he's a very agressive Protoss, if I go for builds like this one he usually kills me off before my composition is at its full strength. Terrans can defend the 4gate which is a very aggressive push by Protoss with 2 bunkers and SCVs pulled to repair them | ||
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Crankenstein
Australia150 Posts
On January 23 2011 00:55 .kv wrote: What if the Protoss techs to HTs and gets Charge as well? HTs would kill the stim marines, SCVs, and feedback the Raven and the Chargelots will clean up the Thors? I doubt that its possible to get enough energy/HT's to storm the marines and feedback the medivacs and the raven and still have enough charge-a-lots to kill the Thors keeping in mind that charge-a-lots will get hit by storms too when they charge in. | ||
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shiNe.
Canada120 Posts
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eatpraylove
United States53 Posts
And I didn't know sentries could shoot through the ground. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uoSAq.jpg) | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
In your first replay your opponent (who is now back in diamond league) underestimated the threat, built way too many probes and you caught him as he was teching to HT. The 2nd was similar, I didn't watch them all. Artosis did a good vid on how to defeat this class of attacks but protoss players ignore it and trust to luck instead (or have obscene micro). | ||
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Barca
United States418 Posts
On January 25 2011 03:56 Willzzz wrote: This build works just like all the other 1 base timing attacks. There is one simple reason it works and that is because most protoss players are greedy and cocky and try to expand and tech up at the same time. In your first replay your opponent (who is now back in diamond league) underestimated the threat, built way too many probes and you caught him as he was teching to HT. The 2nd was similar, I didn't watch them all. Artosis did a good vid on how to defeat this class of attacks but protoss players ignore it and trust to luck instead (or have obscene micro). Artosis's response to a 1-base Raven timing push was... 1 base Collosus? Are you kidding me? That's got to be the worst response ever. If the Terran was actually good and pushed at 9-10 minutes with a Raven and a couple banshees, Artosis only had 4 stalkers and 3 sentries. Compare that to the typical Polt timing attack which hits with 1 Raven and 3 banshees and you are dead. You are done. Oh yeah, also: the guy expanded? So it's not a one base all-in at all. They met in the middle of the map as Artosis pushed. That video does not even come close to explaining how to defeat a 1 base all-in. And speaking of obscene micro, have you seen his Force Fields in that video? How can people put that video up on a pedestal when it's complete garbage, it's ridiculous | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On January 21 2011 09:21 FabledIntegral wrote: Stalkers are not even remotely cost efficient vs battlecruisers, and battlecruisers completely demolish protoss, although it's nigh impossible to get a critical mass of them out. BCs vs toss lol? First of all, reaching a critical mass of BCs vs toss is well night impossible vs Toss(as you pointed out), and if they do indeed reach that mass, then that means that the Toss probably has the exact counter to them which is void rays and templar. That massive 200 energy gets turned into 200 damage by the templay, and the voids are fairly beefy vs the bc's terribad 6 attack vs air. Not to mention the void's buff vs massive. If not for the Yamato cannon, then voids would just outright rape bcs. Stalkers however do blow vs bcs. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
However the key piece of advice he gives still holds true. If the terran is putting all his effort into a killer timing attack you have to put all your effort into defending that attack. Most all-ins feature heavy marine play, protoss can't get HT in time, so colossi are a reasonable choice, since you probably have robo anyway for obs. There are numerous ways for protoss to defeat the Polt attack, but there are 2 things they should not do: expand and get HT. The Polt attack comes before the expansion has paid for itself and before your HT have storm. | ||
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