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ST_RainBOw was doing a build involving a tank-marine opening. Similar as the build seen in TSL_Rain vs. TSL_Trickster.
Both the builds FAILED.
Now, by coincidence, I was doing the same build today vs. a few low/mid diamond protosses. Couldn't get it to work either. Slowpushing his natural or ramp didn't work that well cause of the (charge)zealots and immortals.
How do I get this Tank/Marine opening to work?
I really love tanks and would like to use them vs. toss.
Maybe being less agressive and timing attack on 2 base? Slower pushing? Adding ghosts?
The build is basicly as follows
Normal factory opening on 2 gas.
Adding techlab on factory and 2 rax (1 naked and 1 reactor)
Small variations possible
ps. a similar build is done by rain(?) in season 3 on lost temple i believe, the opponent opened blink stalkers
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When morrow played Terran he did a similar build.
He would use bunkers, tanks, and sentry towers to secure the middle of the map then expand. He would then add marauders and medivacs to his unit mix to get a few drops going before getting cloaked banshees and then adding on thors. He would also constantly pressure the protoss' natural or 3rd by creeping tanks and bunkers to it.
If the protoss is getting phenoixs you will have to add on vikings and missle turrets to your push.
Edit: yes you would play passive with bunkers and tanks and set up for a nice 2base push that would allow you to secure a position on the map to expand, pressure, and snipe protoss expansions.
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Tanks/Ghosts are pretty much go hand in hand.
Two of Tank's biggest counters are phoenixes and immortal, both of which are hard-countered by ghosts. (Phoenix is light, ghosts do bonus damage, and EMP removes energy). Immortal loses all shields when EMPed.
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On January 09 2011 09:25 Griffith` wrote:
Tanks/Ghosts are pretty much go hand in hand.
Two of Tank's biggest counters are phoenixes and immortal, both of which are hard-countered by ghosts. (Phoenix is light, ghosts do bonus damage, and EMP removes energy). Immortal loses all shields when EMPed.
That's dumb, you rather have more tanks than have a ghost. Ghosts are TOO gas heavy.
@OP
Try watching some of the QXC's recorded live stream vods, he really likes those tank openings against protoss.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts =]
If you set up a defensive line with bunkers etc. you could really stretch the game into a big macro game indeed while splitting the map. Could work well on maps like scrap station, lost temple, maybe metalopolis and xelnaga (small corridors etc.)
What I was doing, I made 2/3 tanks and while siegemode was reseraching I walked across the map and set up a contain at the opponent's natural. Trying to slowly kill his army and/or buildings.
I've always wanted to go thor/banshee but the transition from bio into that is so huge. And I can only stretch games by spamming bio atm. Anyway, let's discuss the opening some further instead of wandering to thor/marine. Like the thought though, and if it worked for morrow, it should work for me.
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Imo tank play as terran vs protoss is generally not that good and only worth it on maps that really favor tanks alot.
Tanks just cost alot of gas which is better invested in MM upgrades or ghosts and medivacs/vikings imo, especially as they suck so much against zealots. Going tanks also gives away one of terran's biggest advantages, their mobility. You can't kite or do quick attacks well anymore if you invest too much in tanks and tanks on defense are amazingly easy to break for toss (immortals or zealots soak the first hits too easily).
Imo tank play vs P should only be used on steppes of war (where you can siege the natural from the low ground and you can make bunkers stepwise) or LT (where you can tank drop the cliffs and camp quite well with the tanks). On other maps P just has too many tricks to abuse the tank weaknesses imo.
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lol tanks are so bad vs toss these days, its like trying to go scissors vs rock. if you dont want to do mmm, go mass banshee
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Hey AllNight, I actually had this same question a while back, and have tried this build plenty of times vs Protoss. It failed many many times and only worked a few times.
I think that in most situations, building a few tanks and a lot of marines and trying to push the Protoss opponent early on will be bad. However, the toss will not want to attack into your tanks no matter what, so if you can set up tanks/bunkers well with a goal of containing and expanding to get an economic lead vs the Protoss, I think this build may work well. It is still very hard to execute though, and building many bunkers and placing your tanks very well is a necessity. Not sure how to deal with Genius's immortal drops though, those seemed very very strong vs this build.
You might want to go look up some replays/youtube videos of GoOdy. He is a EU terran who goes mech vs Protoss and actually beats some very skilled players. His games consist of blue flame hellions controlling & harassing the map(also participating in battles, mostly useful to break immortal shields), slow tank pushes and expanding, and thors/banshees to clean up.
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If you have small numbers of tanks the protoss just snipes them and they become less effective. They only effective in groups. I saw GoOdy only using them as a midgame strategy, opening with banshee into expansion into mech, if i remember correctly.
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I use a tank marine (+later blueflame helion / Thor) build in my TvP. I would recommend you replays from Naama and Goody. Both very often use Tanks.
I use a 1/1/1 opening wich makes the build safe against every cheese and against an early expand (scout with 1 helion) wich would put me behind i go for an Thor Banshee push/allin. What is pretty easy because i already have 2 gas and a starport.
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I think it's more effective if you try to adopt a fake double kind of build (if you're familiar with the BW build) where you get two naked barracks and then a factory (you start your second gas after factory). Keep making marines constantly, and push with two tanks and about five SCVs (don't research siege initially). Your opponent is going to know that you're teching when he scouts and sees only marines at your ramp, but he won't necessarily prepare for your tanks, because the usual build Protosses will deal with will be banshees or raven timing pushes. The only way the Protoss MIGHT see your attack coming is if he goes one gate robo. If he one gate expands, he's dead. Period. If he doesn't have any sentries, probably also dead. Use your SCVs to repair the tanks.
Keep rallying marines/tanks, and drop a CC and research siege mode. If he has two sentries or more and can FF you out, back off. You can bunker the bottom of his ramp if you want to, but it's not necessary (or recommended). This build is really powerful at close positions on LT, and Metalopolis, but also good on Steppes. Not recommended for Jungle Basin, Scrap, or XC.
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If he prepares for banshees he might go stalker heavy which gets rolled by tank/marine.
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I think you should look for mouzNaama's TvP. it involves many tanks. Bunkers are what makes this strong. just have a lot of marines and put them in bunkers to contain your opponent. Normally you would deal with marines by adding AoE-damage (colossi), but if there are 4+ bunkers, that doesn't work.
Marines make zealots and immortals melt, so you can push slowly and add bunkers and turrets. it's very hard to break that as a protoss.
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Rainbow itself said that tanks aganist P are slightly weak
Genius beat that build (ok, with freanking amazing micro).
Is a ANOTHER fknig freaking 1 base all-in.
So please, go for 2-base macro play, and improve your overall gaming. These 1-base,2-base timmings are gonna end at some point, this year, due to new bigger maps.
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EPT
