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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
I don't really have a replay right now, much rather I'd like to ask you if you have any of you successfully dealing with it or just provide some general tips. Right now I am going for 15 Hatch 14 Scout/Pool on every map except Steps of War. As soon I scout 2Rax play I stop making drones and get 3 sets of lings then a queen and more lings but even with that I'm rarely able to stop a bunker from getting finished. Please help me. | ||
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Magulina
Sweden152 Posts
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darkevilxe
Canada346 Posts
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Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
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zakmaa
Canada525 Posts
If I see any early aggression, then immediately make more lings (or spine crawlers) depending on the size of his push. This way you don't spend your larvae on too many lings rather than drones. Also, if you post a replay it would be much easier to help you out Note: I also get speed at 100, then take drones off gas. | ||
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JMDj
United States454 Posts
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RockOut
Norway39 Posts
- Also, if you 14hatch, your creep will have spread slightly further before he can place his bunker, and you can place your spine in the creep some very precious seconds earlier. - If his bunker gets finished, it's ok to let your hatch take some hits, just don't friggin run your 5 slow lings into the bunker. Place your lings behind the bunker in stead, to kill his reinforcements = your hatch will live longer, and you will have time to get more lings out. -Don't attack the bunker until you know you will kill it. And kill the repairing scv(s) first. | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
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!LeaF!
United States32 Posts
-Keep overlord at natural expo to scout for early bunkers -If bunker is scouted, pull 4 drones and attack the building SCV. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
Look for the number of SCVs. Against 2 SCV you need to prevent the ramp block, and in general you need to be more aggressive. Make a spine asap. Attack the building scv. When marines arrives, you go back and forth threatening to surround and pulling back, until your spine is completed. Make your first queen at your natural, you probably can't afford to make 2 queens immediately since you need to make a spine. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
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gREIFOCs
Argentina208 Posts
The best thing is to block your ramp with a drone if you see the 2 un-addoned rax if you go for an early expand. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
if there is no safetybunker just get a lot of drones and chase down the marines while killing the scv that builds the bunker with one drone. As long as you can keep the marinecount low enough he wont ever be able to set up bunkers. After that get a banelingnest and drone up. If he goes allin you are fine. If hes going for 2rax into CC you are also fine. | ||
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CingCoCo
Germany20 Posts
On January 10 2011 21:57 DennyR wrote: After that get a banelingnest and drone up. If he goes allin you are fine. If hes going for 2rax into CC you are also fine. Actually not. Banelings are just horrible against a 2 rax opening because slow Banes are close to useless against Rines and even Speedbanes are not costefficient against Rines with Stim. I can send you a bunch of replays where I just kill a Ling Bling Muta Zerg with nothing but Rines (vs 2.6k-3k Zerg). You basically have to get roaches early - dont know how to counter the usual MMM transition though - thats for you to find out (maybe Hydra?). | ||
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
On January 11 2011 00:03 CingCoCo wrote: Actually not. Banelings are just horrible against a 2 rax opening because slow Banes are close to useless against Rines and even Speedbanes are not costefficient against Rines with Stim. I can send you a bunch of replays where I just kill a Ling Bling Muta Zerg with nothing but Rines (vs 2.6k-3k Zerg). You basically have to get roaches early - dont know how to counter the usual MMM transition though - thats for you to find out (maybe Hydra?). Thats quite true but if you get roaches you die to a list of things. I have to say the 2rax ist pretty abusive and by far the best opener you can play imo. If you go roaches than tank, marauder and medivactransitions kill you because you dont have gas for mutas that early and the terran is allowed to keep up pressure while expaning himself. Its pretty hard. If you stay on ling/baneling you die to blueflame hellions. Muta/Infestor/Baneling and later broods ist the only thing that sounds safe tbh. | ||
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CingCoCo
Germany20 Posts
On January 11 2011 00:18 DennyR wrote: Muta/Infestor/Baneling and later broods ist the only thing that sounds safe tbh. Add an exclusive deal with Gasprom to get enough Vespene for all that stuff ^^ | ||
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Xeken
United States77 Posts
1. roaches can get there in a timely manner. 2. Close enough to sneak an OL to his ramp This way, you can effectively poke at his ramp and combat T's superior range. You will also force them to make multiple bunkers to defend the ramp whereas if you have no sight, they only need one. They can salvage it later, but you are limiting their immediate available resources (not to mention you can easily kill off that building scv. Know when their concussive shell finishes, and back off just before. You would drop a hatch when you move out with your roach pressure, and ideally, you can sustain your pressure till the hatch is done. Then I go roach/queen push at around 12 minutes, which should be around 115-120 food at least with 1/1 upgrades (maybe 2/1 if you go for earlier upgrades. trade off being you may be less prepared for an earlier counter push). You will only need 1 base gas to do this, so do not grab the 2 gas at natural. By then they wouldn't have a healthy number of any gas heavy unit (medivacs, tanks, etc) so you can outlast their stim with your transfuse, and they wouldn't have enough critical mass to drop your roaches before you can get off transfuse. Queens will also be able deal with any air that T may have by that point, so that's of no concern. Expand to 3rd at this time, and grab all the gases, then transition into whatever is needed (do not go for a second roach/queen, you will not have enough queen with energy in a timely manner). On larger maps/long distance spawn, you have to learn to beat bunker rush with lings and drones, which isn't that difficult. One thing to do would be to sneak 4 lings between your base and his and cut down reinforcing marines. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
Let me explain why. A well executed 2 rax hits around 4:10 with 3 marines and 4:25 with 5 marines on close pos LT. If each of your lings take hits from SCVs blocking the way, not to mention the bunkers, 5 marines should be able to snipe down the zerglings one by one while stutterstepping backwards. From experience I have seldom lost many marines to lings, and have never once been completely surrounded. It seems to be far better to whittle down the SCV number so that there are less meatshields blocking the bunker scv(s). Once you stall the bunker, retreat and wait for spines to pop. But by far the best thing is to avoid these dicey situations - I don't know how ret did his testing, but when I did mine, an early queen and lings in the nat was a sure deterrent. 3-4 spines fend off the later bio push, if it happens. A queen costs 200+ minerals less than a hatch and should pop earlier - it is mathematically impossible for a 14 hatch to be producing more larvae or to be safer in any way especially in close pos in the time of greatest danger - the 4:20 to 4:50 stretch. Repairing SCVs can nullify sunkens until they are taken out. The earliest a sunken can be completed is about 5 mins in - way too late. This is what my tests have shown me, and moreover no tests are actually needed because simple mathematics does the job. A queen produces more larvae than a hatch as long as the extra larvae pop around 4:05 mins in, and moreover a 14 hatch obviously does nothing until up to that point. A hatch is 200+ minerals more than a queen, too. The only advantage a 14 hatch provides is to make the ramp potentially unwallable, but if the Terran hits the timing right the bunkers will still be going up very close to the hatch. | ||
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CrayonKing
Cambodia124 Posts
Like the previous poster mentioned a well executed push around 4:10 with 3 marines and 4:25 with 5 marines i find is very effective so really it comes down to the scv count. What do you guys find is a hard amount of scvs to deal with? I think this depends on how much the Terran wants to "all-in" or if hes planning to transition but do you find all-ins harder to deal with or pressure and then trying to catchup? | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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RockOut
Norway39 Posts
RockOut.582 (EU) Any diamond is good. If any of the games are really good, then I am posting it here for discussion/review. Would also be cool if people can post any (good) replays they already have, or get a practice partner and make some. | ||
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Bonkerz
United States831 Posts
GL, Bonkerz(2.5k terran) | ||
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xciLe
Norway213 Posts
and bring workers, not only lings to kill it off | ||
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ArgaralahaRa
Germany7 Posts
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
no one even go hatch first now you need to adapt and apply it into your play style.... i suggest going 14 pool then hatch and also have overlords to spot bunkers or scv so you can send drones to stop it early | ||
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