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CubY
Germany93 Posts
 I see more and more of these mass ravens builds even on 2 base lately and there is almost nothing to counter?! Terran gets many ravens and can still mass up their marines because ravens are so gas expenssive. The get bulding armor and range aswell and just spamming turets in my bases! Even if i scout it i dont know how to deal with it or hold it off?! Any thoughts on that ? | ||
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love.less
United Kingdom293 Posts
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Hammurabio
152 Posts
Ultras - they wipe out the ATs very quickly. Ultras can also assault the base easily. Nydus - Ravens are slow. Get lings/blings in his base and kill the SCVs. | ||
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Gand0lf
Canada4 Posts
Raven's are tech heavy and require alot of gas... by themselves they are micro heavy too as they don't have their own attack. Its a fun strat though to play with terran.. Fungal growth will also hit air units as well, which translates to chewing hit points and being unable to move so well. Infested terran can be a good bolstering to your forces as well. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On January 07 2011 07:24 Gand0lf wrote: Mass Marines melt like butter when you have enough Banelings. You add a couple of Infestors with fungal growth... some hydra's and roaches as meat shields.... Zerg truley shines if your macro does... Expand early and keep the pressure on.... Raven's are tech heavy and require alot of gas... by themselves they are micro heavy too as they don't have their own attack. Its a fun strat though to play with terran.. Fungal growth will also hit air units as well, which translates to chewing hit points and being unable to move so well. Infested terran can be a good bolstering to your forces as well. Lol you my friend have no clue what your talking about. As a Terran who plays SK Terran with Marines and Ravens. Banlings are the last thing you want to build. They die to HSM and cant dodge the missile. Also a good marine Raven player knows how to 2 rax expand thus out macroing is difficult if he's any good, because he's gonna be attacking all game long. Mentioning that Ravens being tech heavy means nothing(Starport is the easiest thing to get.), nor does being gas heavy since your going Mass Marines. Also your comment that the strategy is too micro intensive to be effective. I counter that with SK Terran BW. Now that was micro intensive and it was effective. SC2 Marine Raven Micro vs Original BW SK their is no comparison in micro. @ OP Your gonna need to build Infestors/Roaches. The only issue with this composition is that Enough marines with upgrades are good against Roaches, Terran can also easily add marauders, and a couple medivacs null the effectiveness of Infestors You could go Muta cloud, but you have to have really good micro to dodge HSM. Though terran's army counters Mutas, mutas are more mobile and can run in and kill stuff. And to win your gonna need Tier 3 Ultras and go Ultra Ling Infestor. P.S. Don't build Hydras. Their good, but you'll get out maneuvered due to lack of creep, because with ravens Terran can easily kill your Tumors. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Like all zerg strategies, it relies on balancing your economy in such a way that you maximize the use of as few units as possible while macroing your butt off in drones. Without reps, I'm guessing you're probably getting knee capped early on and losing to the continual streams of marines. If that is the case, you need to just practice 14 hatch against 2 Rax FEs. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
"just go fucking kill him" Day[9] | ||
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Terminator(471)
United States243 Posts
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Moriarity
United States91 Posts
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:21 Antisocialmunky wrote: Build tanks and banshees and laugh at infestors. ?? Infestors are a good response to both tanks and banshees. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:19 link0 wrote: Build infestors and laugh at ravens. Build infestors, and laugh at ravens. Keep the aggression on him so he has to waste PDDs and HSM and turrets on his side of the map, and just poke and run and poke and run. I'd personally say, vs marine raven, that infestor/sling/_______ is the way to go. Infestors pimp out marines. Infestors can throw down IT to hit the ravens/add DPS to your army. Who's going to fly ravens into 12 ITs? If he switches to tanks as suggested, better hope he has money raven control, three bases, or he's going to be slacking on both tanks and ravens. Of any strategy vs zerg, I find raven marine to be about the weakest that hangs on threads of harassment all game long. Build tanks and banshees and laugh at infestors. Talking a heavy gas transition. 1 tank 1 banshee is a solid what, 300/235, so there goes a raven, and about 4 marines. Although, as zerg, I'd be more afraid of marine banshee tank than marine raven. In short -- infestor/sling/roach, drop a few fungals, if you can flank with banes it's over. Land a few fungals, again, and then pimp out some ITs and just force him to run. If he's targeting infestors, he's not targeting roaches or blings or slings, etc. Slings > about every terran make up until upgrades, a choke hold, multiple tanks, or heavy hellions with blueflame.. So keep that in mind. Don't fall behind in upgrades and 3/3 marines aren't as scary as they seems. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:29 iAmJeffReY wrote: Build infestors, and laugh at ravens. Keep the aggression on him so he has to waste PDDs and HSM and turrets on his side of the map, and just poke and run and poke and run. I'd personally say, vs marine raven, that infestor/sling/_______ is the way to go. Infestors pimp out marines. Infestors can throw down IT to hit the ravens/add DPS to your army. Who's going to fly ravens into 12 ITs? If he switches to tanks as suggested, better hope he has money raven control, three bases, or he's going to be slacking on both tanks and ravens. Of any strategy vs zerg, I find raven marine to be about the weakest that hangs on threads of harassment all game long. Probably the best post so far against anyone going nothing but Ravens and Marines these days. I'd still say working on your mechanics is best because you're probably getting kneecapped by the initial marine push early on. Terran has to get them tanks. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
The best thing, for me, vs zerg lately is to just hit when I feel I can win/cause damage, even if it's dragging 15 scvs with me. I've been doing 5 marine 1 hellion, or delaying it to try and catch them off gaurd with 3-4 blue flames, 8-10 marines, and I'll pul 5-6 scvs to hit before mutas pop. With a work-in-progress 1-1 expo into 3-2-1 I'm only seeming to have trouble with a suprise 2 base heavy bust, or a very, very, very muta heavy player with upgrades that transitions to broodlords. For a zergy -- when terrans get tank heavy, it's time to whip out them broodlords and force a viking change. The only problem muta balls would have is HSM. Which can be a big problem with control issue, even I couldn't stop a HSM with a fast muta ball if I tried I bet. But if you can drop around expos and force those 100 mana PDDs to stop muta harasses, I don't know what they could have raven energy wise ya know? I so want to find a way to go hellion tank marine heavy with 1-2 ravens against a muta sling bling player, and just drop 2-3 PDDs in a battle at their base and laugh at the mutas >_< As a terran, don't let me get mass ravens out. Muta ball harass into expos is a very very effective strat | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
More important is over-all map positioning with mutas. If there is a T army of a giant wad of marines/tanks/ravens in the field, then its much harder to harass T with muta. Terran will just counter, kill 1/2 Z's army while the other half is flying around the map and get a free base and probably win the game if he's not mined out. I don't find the mass mass muta very effective unless I'm not prepared for it. The harder thing to deal with is the like 9 muta mass ground army because its the threat of muta, not the actual ball of muta that is annoying. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:21 Munk-E wrote: Same way you counter mass scout in BW "just go fucking kill him" Day[9] That only works if their rushing a tech. Mass Marine Ravens isn't cheesey nor a rush. Its actually very safe. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605 | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:29 iAmJeffReY wrote: Build infestors, and laugh at ravens. Keep the aggression on him so he has to waste PDDs and HSM and turrets on his side of the map, and just poke and run and poke and run. I'd personally say, vs marine raven, that infestor/sling/_______ is the way to go. Infestors pimp out marines. Infestors can throw down IT to hit the ravens/add DPS to your army. Who's going to fly ravens into 12 ITs? If he switches to tanks as suggested, better hope he has money raven control, three bases, or he's going to be slacking on both tanks and ravens. Of any strategy vs zerg, I find raven marine to be about the weakest that hangs on threads of harassment all game long. Talking a heavy gas transition. 1 tank 1 banshee is a solid what, 300/235, so there goes a raven, and about 4 marines. Although, as zerg, I'd be more afraid of marine banshee tank than marine raven. In short -- infestor/sling/roach, drop a few fungals, if you can flank with banes it's over. Land a few fungals, again, and then pimp out some ITs and just force him to run. If he's targeting infestors, he's not targeting roaches or blings or slings, etc. Slings > about every terran make up until upgrades, a choke hold, multiple tanks, or heavy hellions with blueflame.. So keep that in mind. Don't fall behind in upgrades and 3/3 marines aren't as scary as they seems. Marine Tank Raven ins't that far Fetched. You can produce Marines with some medivacs, Tanks off of 1 fact and Ravens From 1 port off of 2 bases. Or you can go marine Medivac with 2 port Raven. It is ver supportable off of 2 bases, which is garenteed with a 2 Rax expand. Banshees are a little to much. In BW you could off of 2 bases co marine Medic with 2 port Science vessals and make vultures, Or go 1 starport and have a factory making tanks. | ||
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DailYLeet
Germany827 Posts
here is a replay... http://www.xup.in/dl,56993078/ZvT_-.SC2Replay/ | ||
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jameschang112
28 Posts
A pack of ravens is apparently called a conspiracy of ravens...just found that out today, felt like throwing it in. lol | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
Trying to kill mutas with PDD's and autoturrets is like trying to kill voidrays with fungals and infested terrans, horrendously inefficient. You basically want 1.5 times the number of Ravens he has in mutas. If you fungal him near your base and he drops autoturrets you can always bring your roaches around. Fun fact about HSM's: They deal Friendly Fire damage, if you magic box right on top of his raven ball, you WANT him to HSM you. While some people like to go roach infestor, you can do well with muta roach and just grab 3-4 early infestors without investing in the glands upgrade for the extra energy. The thing about infestors is that if you just build a bunch as soon as the pit is done building you get infestors out with 75 energy just as fast as if you built the pit, immediately started the upgrade and then built them. Don't use it as a damage dealer, use it for the snare when your mutas will be able to catch them or to soften up a bunch of marines in a crisis. Roaches are definitely a good bet because they're low on gas and they can deal with autoturrets really well with their +1 armor. If you match the terran in upgrades they'll hold off the marines just fine and they can regen after dealing with the auto turrets so you are losing resources when he's only spending energy on an attack. The biggest problem is if he gets enough energy on his ravens he can just attack with marines, wait for you to group up all your roaches and just HSM the shit out of them. Because they pack together so densely this can be a game ender. Because of this you want to keep engagements with marines short and sweet. Start adding in banelings if the game is going on too long or if he hasn't pressured you for a long while. Spine crawlers can be a great way to tank marine fire and mitigate the HSMs by offering less targets. If you're building gas up to buy a handful of infestors or getting your muta ball up you can spend the build up of minerals on the spines. The strategy he's relying on is the fact that his army is very efficient in the long run and he can keep you from expanding. The proper counter is to keep in mind that his army is still pretty expensive and takes a long time to produce. You even the game up by getting a lot of shit, snaring his expensive units and crushing them, and then either straight up killing him or expanding. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On a further note, if you dont die to a fast push and he doesnt uses tanks (which he wont with mass raven) hydra-infestor-ling rapes everything the T has | ||
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Liquidspoison
United Kingdom119 Posts
On January 07 2011 07:32 bkrow wrote: Fungle growth orly? dude. read thread before post. I wouldn't just use infestors.... that seems unsturdy. Only fungal growth? add in some speedlings or those extra mutas left from horass. | ||
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