|
I've searched the few threads that discuss how to handle warp-in psi storms, and nothing is really useful.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/123472-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns
I'm a fairly low platinum player, so my play is obviously riddled with mistakes. Be as brutal as you like lol. The point of this replay is to show that I'm consistently 30-40 supply ahead as the game progresses, but thanks to storms, my advantage evaporates multiple times.
From what I've picked up on tl, the only answer is mass thors. I'd like to hear, you know, a realistic answer. Most protoss players that do this to me will mass zealots and high templars. The mass of zealots would be devastating to thors, as far as I know.
What I have tried, on many occasions, is cloaking ghosts, moving in, emp'ing the high templars, then stimming my army and moving in. Sounds great in theory, but in practice, the protoss player just creates archons from the useless ht's and warps in 3-4 more ht's, with the khaydarin amulet upgrade, which of course means instant storms, rendering your previous emp's useless.
Ht's are pretty gas intensive, so I've been thinking about doing frequent drops, stimming groups of marauders to take out assimilators, then flying away again. But there again, ht's can be warped in, feedback the medivacs and storm the marauders.
I've been thinking about using mech against protoss but any experience I've ever had using it against protoss has been laughable. Immortals eat mech alive. Even gateway units do well against factory units. My factories in TvP are just expensive scouts. If anyone can link me to a replay where a particularly amazing terran beats an equally skilled protoss with mech, I'd love to see it. I've heard a lot about banshee/thor being a great unit composition against a protoss lategame army but I've never seen it in practice.
I'm open to suggestions. I don't want to hear stuff like "just kill him before he gets the khaydarin amulet". I refuse to believe terran players can't play macro games as well as protoss players. Thanks in advance.
|
When you go in with cloaked ghosts how would he have time to warp in more HT's when you attack him right after?...
|
On January 04 2011 06:45 Xanczor wrote:
When you go in with cloaked ghosts how would he have time to warp in more HT's when you attack him right after?...
he presses w and summons a bunch of HTs. reason why late game PvX is easy mode.
im just gold so my advice will probably not weigh alot: try to siege contain w bunkers. it negates any HT play. Thats how i usually win TvP these days.
|
I'm a low-diamond terran who feels your pain. One thing you might want to consider is sniping the ht's as opposed to emp-ing them, if you know you won't be following up with your army for an amount of time that would be sufficient for him to warp in archons. Otherwise, as Xanczor is implying, you might need to time your attack a bit better to coincide with your emps. A couple archons by themselves are far easier to deal with than they are when thrown into a larger protoss army.
At work, so can't look at the replay at the moment...
|
Try catching him outside his base and cloak/emp. He won't likely have another set of templars to storm since they are pretty slow and won't catch up to the army in time.
Although I agree this is pretty hard to deal with late game.
|
On January 04 2011 06:47 danielsan wrote:
he presses w and summons a bunch of HTs.
Indeed. A ghost takes 40 seconds plus the time needed to get from the main to the action. Could be 50 seconds at most. A ht takes however long it takes to warp in units. Is it 3 seconds? Ghosts are also 100 minerals more expensive. So ghosts are not the answer.
I've poked around and checked out some mech replays, but the protoss player that loses loses for completely different reasons, such as being 2 bases behind for 10 minutes. I'd love to see a GOOD protoss player 4 gate a terran going for mech, and the terran surviving, and winning through.
|
|
|
On January 04 2011 06:58 Vezex wrote:
in my experience you either transition to mech based play...
Some replays would be great.
|
You need to gain a substaintial advantage before he gets HT. Then you need to do everything to prevent him from getting a good economy. Try kill his 3rd while dropping in his main. Everytime while enganging you need to split up your units, and predict where he is most likely to storm.
Ghost are still your best choice even though they dont hard counter HT. But as I said you need to do a lot of things very well to be able to beat the toss. And still there is no way that your units are cost effective vs his, which is why you need a big economic advantage in the earlier stages of mid game.
|
Stay active killing pylons around the map and use mass ghosts. You should be almost constantly attacking once the game gets to the later game and use scans to kill observers and spot high templars so that you can emp them first. If your army runs out of ghosts you need to retreat until you have more ghosts built. If you get good emps off your bio ball will completely wreck his army so stay active with scans and be aggressive!
|
On January 04 2011 06:54 Darren1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 06:47 danielsan wrote:
he presses w and summons a bunch of HTs. Indeed. A ghost takes 40 seconds plus the time needed to get from the main to the action. Could be 50 seconds at most. A ht takes however long it takes to warp in units. Is it 3 seconds? Ghosts are also 100 minerals more expensive. So ghosts are not the answer. I've poked around and checked out some mech replays, but the protoss player that loses loses for completely different reasons, such as being 2 bases behind for 10 minutes. I'd love to see a GOOD protoss player 4 gate a terran going for mech, and the terran surviving, and winning through.
I think ghosts are in fact your best answer - they're just tough to use effectively. For instance, in addition to sniping any pre-existing high templar, you might want to save a ghost or two with some energy to emp any high templar that get warped in during the battle (even if none wind up warping in, they're still fantastic "damage" dealers to gateway units with their emp).
I'm not arguing that it doesn't suck to snipe out 4 high templar and emp 2 of 3 that warp in during the ensuing battle, only to have the 3rd storm your ass, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
|
While it depends on the level on your opponents to some extent, in general ghost is a good choice, even if you cant reach the HT or for some reason cant emp them, emp still works wonders on all the toss units.
In the situation you describe, you have to emp the HT before storm, if they have alrdy stormed, either save an emp or 2 for the warp in or emp the rest of his army, but its crucial to land those emp's 1st. If he warps in HT, fall back, or at least move away far enough that he can't insta-storm, then emp, rinse & repeat. Also remember not to just let your ghosts die after they've emp'd, keep them alive.
Otherwise you can try more Thor play, or a more spread out pressured play with drops or lots of small attacks.
That being said, obviously a large part is arriving at the HT situation, putting pressure can often delay his HT or at least reduce the number the toss has.
|
I just think it'd be interesting if HTs could only be built from Gateways but not Warpgates.
Like the option to switch back to Gateways is there but why on Earth would you ever use it. Well how about to get HTs.
But I dunno it seems like in order to deal with Psi Storm you just have to be the better player because they are trading energy for resources with you.
|
what would be cool is a complete removal of khardjoke amulet.
But what you can do is make mostly marauders and medivacs. Get mass viking if he goes collossus and then add ghost if hes getting templars.
You must get Moebius reactor (or w/e is called, ghost's energy). And keep them in a separated control group. Try so You are the one with map control and Scan his army to see when he is moving out. Control Xel naga towers and leave marines outside his base for scouting. And dont forget to expand and keep ur money low. Also, infantry upgades are very important.
To win a macro game vs protoss you MUST be ahead. So the opening in tvp is very important.
AND, getting supply blocked is worst than you think. its TERRIBLE. (even if u think its terrible, its more terrible)
|
You gave no pressure, did no damage, and defended without walls or bunkers or TANKS. TL says that mech isn't viable "for running siege tanks directly down a corridor into a wall of zealots". They're still amazing units if you abuse terrain and walling.
That Planetary fortress was a real hero, with 35 kills. You know what would be even more deadly than a PF on the defense? Two PFs. The TL guys may laugh, but there's no force in the world that can beat two partially supported PFs side by side.
The best possible solution to heavy ground with HT? Thors. They wreck stalkers, they wreck archons, they wreck colossus, They wreck immortals with 250mm, and they wreck zealots if you play your cards right.
|
i think someone needs to make a custom map where you can practice your EMP's, i promise you, you will rape P face if you have gosu EMPs, they can turn the game around and in normal games you never get a good opportunity to practice them because there is so much stress involved.
|
What Terran has to do is catch the protoss in a position where he CANT pull back, and warp in more templars.
If your fighting in the middle or somewhere by your own base, and protoss feels they wont win. Protoss just pull backs, warps in more templars and units and fights again.
Force the protoss to a position where they have to defend, and with a good EMP or too you can take an EXPO out. If you take an expo out, and lose some units to storm its a good trade. If your JUST fighting out in the open unit trading for storm is something the protoss wants.
Late game, there is no way you will completely prevent HTs from being active. The key is to work the protoss to minimize their number, and get ahead in econ. Terran sort of has to take the stereo typical zerg approach and win with numbers.
|
On January 04 2011 06:06 Darren1337 wrote:
Ht's are pretty gas intensive, so I've been thinking about doing frequent drops, stimming groups of marauders to take out assimilators, then flying away again. But there again, ht's can be warped in, feedback the medivacs and storm the marauders.
Stimrauders can take town an assimilator pretty quickly. I think your problem is that your opponent is scouting your drop, so that is why he can prepare for it. By the time he can react to the drop, your marauders should be near done destroying the gas.
Usually, your medivac should be somewhere near the ledge so you can run your marauders in and fly away without being feed-backed. However, if your medivac is somehow feedbacked, destroy as many things as you can before dying.
Also, storm does not 1hko marauders. They can take up to 2 storms.
|
Mid diamond protoss player here. The one thing that shuts down my gateway+storm endgame is hellions, of all things. They are extraordinarily good at sniping HT, which, unless you are extremely mindful of your army, will always end up behind everything. They're also very good against zealots. I'd recommend having a dedicated small groups of hellions to just run around the map and snipe things when you get the opportunity...and trust me, you'll get plenty.
|
The best way is to go mech heavy in the mid/late game. Sieges are effective.
MM just gets too murdered against effective storm casters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
