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Canada1637 Posts
On December 26 2010 10:34 Black Gun wrote:
just watch some of the tvp games from qxc´s latest replay pack which he released yesterday, it shows a very interesting new style where he opens with banshee harass and then transitions straight into marine/thor/banshee play with a raven or 2 and quite directly sets himself up towards bcs in case the game drags on. ofc he gets some vikings aswell if the opponent goes air or colossi.
Any specific replays you can point out? Specifically of BC usage, and BCs being used when the game is not already drastically 1 sided?
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On December 26 2010 10:34 Black Gun wrote:
just watch some of the tvp games from qxc´s latest replay pack which he released yesterday, it shows a very interesting new style where he opens with banshee harass and then transitions straight into marine/thor/banshee play with a raven or 2 and quite directly sets himself up towards bcs in case the game drags on. ofc he gets some vikings aswell if the opponent goes air or colossi.
Link please? In the latest one from the Root Gaming HP he loses 90% of the time in lategame even if he enters it with a significant advantage.
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With a mainly tank army, how do you deal with immortals? Ghosts?
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Someone suggesting to add rines in stead of hellions. Rines melt against storm 
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On December 26 2010 22:47 Dente wrote:Someone suggesting to add rines in stead of hellions. Rines melt against storm Everything melts against storm though.
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I may be wrong because i haven't experienced this build yet but would't it just loose to early-beta style first immortal push? (supporting stalker take care of both marines and helions with no marauder support or stim and immortal crushes tank if it gets out in time)
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bionic > mech or bio
the black or white mech builds from BW are long gone.
p.s. storm damage is easily cancelled out by EMP... just make sure your units are shooting with very minimal time running and not running around like headless chicken being useless.
storm is also friendly fire, so stop-move your way into the protoss ball and fight to the death.
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imo mech only is horrible against a good protoss as chargelots+immortals eat any siege line. hellions are also pretty useless as zealot speed locks down any advantage could've provided.
ive been using tanks successfully in TvP only by doing a contain with marines in bunkers.
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Full Mech is useless because you need
1) Anti Air
2) Anti Immortal= Ghosts
3) Fodder for Zealots
Marine Tank Viking Works because Marines cover these 3 neccesities, while Vikings and Tanks take out the AOE that would ruin your Rines.
Not that Hellions are bad, but they only work as Zealot Fodder and they do a crap job at it. Their still good for harass though
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the best style tvp that has had a lot of success with me imo is the 1 1 1 with heavy bio and banshee harass while transitioning into thors + add some ravens/vikings depending on toss composition. Mech is just so weak against numerous amounts of toss composition. All they need to do is macro.
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On December 27 2010 00:38 GinDo wrote:
Full Mech is useless because you need
1) Anti Air
2) Anti Immortal= Ghosts
3) Fodder for Zealots
Marine Tank Viking Works because Marines cover these 3 neccesities, while Vikings and Tanks take out the AOE that would ruin your Rines.
Not that Hellions are bad, but they only work as Zealot Fodder and they do a crap job at it. Their still good for harass though
1) Scout stargate -> make vikings + 2 rax marines
2) You suprisingly don't need ghosts to beat immortals with mech. Either you can make thors with strike cannon(1 shots immortals) or you can just unsiege youre tanks if he's basically pure immortal zealot. unsieged tanks with hellions to eat shields will out dps immortal/zealot, plus your tanks wont kill any of your own units by accident 
3) blue flame hellions kill zealots in 5 shots. with the initial round of tank fire + hellion splash, zealots usually die within the first tank volley.
I really hate when people say mech isnt viable when they havent even tried very hard to make it work. I play mech vs protoss pretty much exclusively and I win a normal proportion of my games at 2500 diamond level. It relies on good build orders, scouting, positioning and timing to pull off, but you can do it.
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I think people shouldn't put down Mech or any strategy really for not working because I've noticed that in SC2 everything is so flavorful compared to BW that there is no REAL standards (yet). Like even the pros don't always stick to marauder massing in TvP or marine/tank in TvZ. There's been replays of Korean Terrans massing almost nothing but Ravens and winning against pro-team Zerg's.
I think it's very dumb for players to say, no going mech is bad it sucks i can't do it. yeah maybe it sucks for YOU but not for others. If you really are good at just fast quick gameplay and ending the game before the 15 min macro mark then you really should stick with trick banshees and Bio massing type things.
If you're a very patient macro player i think the slow play will always suite you. This game is so revolved around stylistic play that it goes way beyond how each race plays each matchup and more too how each player plays each matchup.
A lot of the famous European T players prefer Biomech. Debo on his stream a lot of the time goes 1 base banshee/marine and only expands when he deems it critical to. Painuser uses thors a lot. Jinro has played a TON of different TvP styles over the course of the beta and since release.
Rain used a quick 1 base tank bunker into biomech style that may not have worked against oGsMC but knowing any Pro player he would not have done that strategy unless it has worked for him many times on ladder and against his teammates. Then there's players like drewbie who really pour on and abuse that bio effectiveness that's really strong on these small maps in the early game for Terran.
I just don't see how people can judge certain strategies in SC2 because it really boils down to your style and how you play. I personally was really struggling with being very aggressive in TvP with 2 rax 3 rax strats and trying to end it fast and my friend said just switch back to Mech and try and make it work again (since the tank nerfs i thought it wasn't possible) and i have for myself and it's working out great for me. I don't win 100% of my TvPs obviously but I find i just play better using the patient game style as opposed to the kill as soon as possible tug scv style.
This doesn't even just include Terran like there's protosses who don't even go collossi and Zerg's that just don't use mutas.
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hm mech is indeed possible but i believe that bio mech is much better choice because you can be more agressive with MMM and hellions until you hit a good amount of tanks with uprades and bases, and also you have marines to deal with unscouted air tech.
MMM, viking, tank, hellion, ghost is a really great combo
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Late game T basically has to use every unit in their arsenal to face the death balls. PDD vs Stalker heavy compositions, Tanks vs Colossai/Stalkers, EMP for Templars/Immortals, Helions/Marines for Marines, etc. etc.
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Mech openings are outright horrible. They forfeit map control for too long, limit your map control, and give toss the opportunity to outexpand you and tech to anything they want.
Mech is more of a transition once you have 2-3 bases which gives you more of a biomech army mid/lategame. Once you have 2-3 base of gas making mass tank/thor and ghosts is very viable.
You still have to be very wary of stargate tech if you ever want to play factories. Voidrays handle thors pretty well and carriers are unstoppable.
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EPT
