On December 20 2010 12:51 bobucles wrote: Battlecruisers take 2x2 damage from interceptors, or 32 damage from an opening volley. Not only can they cripple a carrier with Yamato, they don't even have to shoot it at all. They can just tank the interceptors like a boss, and wipe them all out no problem.
The carrier's true strength comes with +3 air attack upgrades, as it is the highest scaling unit in terms of attack upgrades. Each base interceptor attack is 5x2, meaning a fully loaded carrier will deal 10 damage per volley, per interceptor; this is a total of 80 damage per volley, per carrier. A +3 interceptor will deal 8x2 damage, which is 16 per volley, per interceptor; this is a total of 128 damage per volley, per carrier: an increase in DPS of 60%.
To put it in more blatant terms:
5 carriers with +3 attack will be an even match to 8 unupgraded carriers. (For reference, +3 attack costs 525/525 and 3 fully loaded carriers cost 1350/750; i.e. go for attack upgrades early if you're getting carriers).
On December 20 2010 12:51 bobucles wrote: Battlecruisers take 2x2 damage from interceptors, or 32 damage from an opening volley. Not only can they cripple a carrier with Yamato, they don't even have to shoot it at all. They can just tank the interceptors like a boss, and wipe them all out no problem.
The carrier's true strength comes with +3 air attack upgrades, as it is the highest scaling unit in terms of attack upgrades. Each base interceptor attack is 5x2, meaning a fully loaded carrier will deal 10 damage per volley, per interceptor; this is a total of 80 damage per volley, per carrier. A +3 interceptor will deal 8x2 damage, which is 16 per volley, per interceptor; this is a total of 128 damage per volley, per carrier: an increase in DPS of 60%.
To put it in more blatant terms:
5 carriers with +3 attack will be an even match to 8 unupgraded carriers. (For reference, +3 attack costs 525/525 and 3 fully loaded carriers cost 1350/750; i.e. go for attack upgrades early if you're getting carriers).
Yeah, their upgrades scale well, as do the armour upgrades for your opponent and their base armour..
Carriers I believe are not really intended to take out capital ships, they're great against lots of lesser enemies however because of their reasonable base armour, the fact that they barely overkill, and that base armour really affects them. Basically, see a carrier sort of like 5 phoenices shooting at an armoured target.
^ feedback > yamato cannon, and the carrier can kite BC's from there.
I don't really know how well thor/ghost works against this, but imo it's one of/the strongest PvT composition.
Sure, carriers can kite BCs, and templar can sometimes get lucky on using feedback (as they're prime targets for Yamato). But it doesn't mean jack as BC's have 3 base armor to the interceptor's 5 base damage. They can kill interceptors all day without even trying.
It takes over 100 interceptor volleys to kill a BC, or about a straight minute of interceptor fire. A BC can kill the interceptors in half that time(not to mention taking less damage as the kills rack up). GOOD. LUCK.
5 carriers with +3 attack will be an even match to 8 unupgraded carriers. (For reference, +3 attack costs 525/525 and 3 fully loaded carriers cost 1350/750; i.e. go for attack upgrades early if you're getting carriers).
Except NO ONE is going to be out teched by three entire upgrades. One? Yeah, against good timing. 2? Unlikely, and you're probably losing around that point anyway.
Anyone who keeps saying Socke always uses Carriers care to post some RECENT replays? Every time its the same vods from months ago...
The carrier's true strength comes with +3 air attack upgrades, as it is the highest scaling unit in terms of attack upgrades. Each base interceptor attack is 5x2, meaning a fully loaded carrier will deal 10 damage per volley, per interceptor; this is a total of 80 damage per volley, per carrier. A +3 interceptor will deal 8x2 damage, which is 16 per volley, per interceptor; this is a total of 128 damage per volley, per carrier: an increase in DPS of 60%.
This is wrong, Carrier attack doesn't scale at all, +1 attack may increase carrier damage by 2 per interceptor but + armor from the enemy reduces an interceptors damage by 2 per upgrade. Realistically, by the time Carriers come out the enemy is usually on +1/+2 armor upgrades already so you need +2 attack just to keep up with them...
On December 20 2010 13:44 Dommk wrote: Anyone who keeps saying Socke always uses Carriers care to post some RECENT replays? Every time its the same vods from months ago...
On December 20 2010 13:44 Dommk wrote: Anyone who keeps saying Socke always uses Carriers care to post some RECENT replays? Every time its the same vods from months ago...
This is just a personal caveat, but when you start talking about XvY, usually you put the race from whose perspective you're talking first (so since you're discussing protoss strategy vs terran, PvT)...unless I'm gravely mistaken.
Carriers are still, on the whole, quite inefficient at times, but this seems to be good...how do HTs fare vs Vikings?
On December 20 2010 13:48 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:
On December 20 2010 13:44 Dommk wrote: Anyone who keeps saying Socke always uses Carriers care to post some RECENT replays? Every time its the same vods from months ago...
Got more than 1 vod that is also less than a month old?
fyi that game as played roughly 40days ago
Not really no. I've seen him use it a couple of times and it worked, I only did it once or twice and I never really planned for it. I just had those stargates and my phoenices were useless against those thors and I personally don't like to micro void rays around, so I rolled into it.
On December 20 2010 14:12 Z3kk wrote: Carriers are still, on the whole, quite inefficient at times, but this seems to be good...how do HTs fare vs Vikings?
Very good, vikings clump up very well, are slow, and have as much hp as a mutalisk.
battlecruisers definitely counter carriers the problem is they are slow moving however if you fight the toss base with 10 battlecruisers and just a-move them you will kill all of the interceptors easy and bc's tank carriers like a champ. feedback isnt too dangerous to bc's if you just yamato the first target possible when attacking like the first building you see to drain energy
Watched the second game, and the T's 2 Thor push was about 2 minutes slower than the build he was probably copying (badly) from a thread posted here yesterday. He also got starport, expanded and made a ghost academy before pushing with the same-sized army he should have had 2 minutes ago (~ 9 min mark).
A 3rax stim push at 7 min would have easily killed you without sentries to cut the T army in half. Or, 1 cloaked banshee a little bit later could have killed all your probes. You had neither cannons in your mineral line or observers + anti air. Heck, even a 3 hellion drop would halt all mining as your probes would have to retreat to the cannons at your ramp. Or 1 reaper...
As others have stated previously, Carrier/HT is an awesome composition IF you can get to it. Hopefully you can find ways to make your build safer. Have fun!
Carrier/chargelot/HT has worked pretty well against me, as long as the protoss is careful about kiting the carriers back when they get attacked. It's really gas intensive to handle templar warp in and carriers, but the strength of amulet HT can generally let protoss get an extra base. Feedback can prevent BCs from Yamatoing carriers, so the faster protoss ship can stay out of range. If BCs Yamato HTs, then they still don't have energy to Yamato the carriers too. HTs can also storm the marines that would shoot down interceptors, vikings, or repairing SCVs.
HTs are strong against bio, chargelots are good against all terran ground except micro'd hellions, and Phoenix are strong against drop harass, heavy banshee play or can act as meatshields for Colossus - and there's also 3 Gate VR attacks - so a lot of the pieces can be in place naturally. Just suddenly slamming out 4 Stargates at once is not a good way to transition.
If Carriers did 10 damage straight up and had a fairly lower build time they would be worth it (20 seconds longer than a Nexus or a Dark Shrine WTF). As it is now it's only worth it it for a sneaky lategame transitions PvT (WhatTheFu6Carriers??!?), and even then the only reason they work is because vikings like to excrete on void rays, and now that void ray speed is getting taken out it will only be worse.
It takes longer to build 5 carriers out of 1 stargate than it does to get +3 weapons upgrades out of a single forge. :|
I transition to carriers against t after I take my fourth base. I don't build colossi in this matchup so they will not have vikings. get your +1 air weapons when you have the free gas, and go mass gateway with templar in the midgame and get lots of upgrades. Then you can transition into 2-gate carrier and build a lot of stalkers/chargelots/templar out of your 12-15 gates.
once the carriers come out you want to chrono out ups for them as fast as possible. when you get maxed build a ton of gateways so you can do a 300 food attack.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-172744.jpg)
