EPT[D/H] The end of Supply Depots? - Page 12
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
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Takuah
United States76 Posts
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pookychoo
New Zealand96 Posts
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30to1
105 Posts
On December 03 2010 12:51 bobcat wrote: This is the strategy thread. Please do not post untested ideas here. Especially ones like this that are clearly bad. Go to the general thread for those. If you are going to come up with a strategy to pollute these boards with, at least give this community and it's members the respect of taking some of your precious time (of which you clearly have a lot) to actually test this build. At the very least, beat a computer with it before you bring it to us. We are here to discuss strategies. We are not here to discuss an idea that gestated in your head for all of 2 minutes. Please make a small effort to work on your strategy before making it a thread. A little fucking ridiculous the amount of hostility in this comment. But there is a little nut of truth in there amid the insane anger. Honestly, I have somewhat limited time, and I was hoping this post would encourage people to help contribute ideas to this. It's really potentially a pretty big deal. | ||
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
1. Some people in this thread are just being close-minded douchebags, the OP says himself it's purely theorycraft, and it's obviously not "easy" to get BOs for something like this. 2. Bother reading? So many people asking questions that are answered, or asking for existing replays, some people even saying that you should at least prove you can beat a computer, which is DONE in a diamond level play in the freaking replay. 3. Replacing supply depots early game won't be happening. I guess what could be game-changing, is considering OCs like "teching up" your economy. You shouldn't do so early on, using supply depots to "fend" off supply blocks, and when you have decent army, and you can afford "macro tech", I think it's interesting to try. I'd so try this, but I play protoss and zerg, and I'm not really totally looking forward to learning all of terran to a point where I can validate the viabilities of this build or not. ------ Again, if you bother looking, at the 13 minute mark, you have a max supply army made up of marines and marauders, with a rapist economy, where OCs are only just adding to your benefit. | ||
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
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Kpyolysis32
553 Posts
I really like this, though. I play Protoss on ladder, so I can't use it there, but I will definitely try this out next time I'm doing 3v3s or 4v4s just to be a badass. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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30to1
105 Posts
I just ran a series of test games against the AI - I've never played terran before and was pretty pleased at how it feels. Obviously it was just against Very Hard AI - so not much of a challenge - even if I have never played T except 8 campaign missions. But terran FE into OC Farm is sort of nuts. An interesting side effect revolves around how expansions work. As I posted in thread opener, expansions are really expensive and workers are the vast majority of the cost. Generally you don't want to lose an expansion because its worth around 1900 minerals fully saturated and thats a huge loss. But if you have around 4-6 OC you can just drop one at an expansion and mule it. Even if it gets killed (unlikely considering lift), you lose at worst 550 minerals - which is nothing considering your income rate will generally flux between 2200-3500. It's sort of ridiculous how potent terrans mid/late game can get using this kind of technique. EDIT: I've been using a 14 CC / 15 rax build - sort of copying the zerg FE style from the zerg econ thread. The optimizers suggest 14 cc / 16 cc / 17 rax for maxed out econ or 12 rax / 15 cc for safer play. | ||
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gongryong
Korea (South)1430 Posts
im not a T player but for the purpose of science i tested it. i just do standard early game, 14 CC wall off and swtich to "mule" build. most problems come from super aggressive early game pressure. ive tried it 5x already, but because im not T i have problem with timings and proper BO. let me try it a few more time, and i'll post replay here. wow. imagine the potential. | ||
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30to1
105 Posts
That's awesome gongryong, I can't wait to see the replay. | ||
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Tivo
United States121 Posts
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gongryong
Korea (South)1430 Posts
30to1 December 03 2010 14:25 Now THATS the kind of post I've been waiting to see! That's awesome gongryong, I can't wait to see the replay. 30to1, hats off to you on the idea. TBH, my interest here is twofold: 1. the pure joy of perfecting a particular build/strategy 2. identifying weaknesses in it as a zerg player (xd) a legit terran should be able to come up with something more stable tho. i have to read up on terran BO until i could run tests on it. i think the idea of 1depot OC mule is out of the question. there has to be some force to deal with early pressure. however, it shines best as a transition from standard 14CC or whatever defensive T build and somewhere upon saturating the first expo, switch to it. its very managemenst heavy and there is a lull mid game as you do the switch. the general idea however it to get a better max 200/200 army (maybe 180/20 army/scv) than others. its a little difficult, but im willing to pour in time to it until i can definitively say it works or not. early results are positive. those who post purely on the negative without even trying it or at least providing a counter-theorycraft argument are just envious of 30to1 for starting this xd | ||
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manicshock
Canada741 Posts
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Sanasante
United States321 Posts
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Tarbosh
United States127 Posts
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
It is indeed possible to get a 200 supply army of approx 50 scvs and 150 marines. OP said he had lots of vikings too, but I can believe that's possible given your build you posted. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
On December 02 2010 17:15 twalf wrote: and then you're mined out. crap. at least you can float all your 550-mineral orbitals around to confuse your opponent Yeah I completely agree with this, people look at mules as "free money." Technically it's just mining your minerals faster. Unlike injecting larva, where it's take it or leave it "free," mules are, if you don't get it now, you'll have more later. With that amount of mules, you'll mine out instantly after a few minutes into the game, technically making your push all in since your bases are mined out. Also it takes nearly 3 mules to pay for one OC. OC=550 m 2 x 240 = 480 Mining time for an SCV is lost in that. So for the first 3 minutes or so, you are technically suffering. As for the comment that said he used it to win in Phantom, of course it works since the minerals are at 50,000. That is the "free mineral" situation, unlike in real melee where it's only getting minerals faster. Not to mention delayed tech doesn't really matter in money maps, and no one kills you early game unless they're a troll. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On December 03 2010 15:41 TriniMasta wrote: Yeah I completely agree with this, people look at mules as "free money." Technically it's just mining your minerals faster. Unlike injecting larva, where it's take it or leave it "free," mules are, if you don't get it now, you'll have more later. With that amount of mules, you'll mine out instantly after a few minutes into the game, technically making your push all in since your bases are mined out. Also it takes nearly 3 mules to pay for one OC. OC=550 m 2 x 240 = 480 Mining time for an SCV is lost in that. So for the first 3 minutes or so, you are technically suffering. As for the comment that said he used it to win in Phantom, of course it works since the minerals are at 50,000. That is the "free mineral" situation, unlike in real melee where it's only getting minerals faster. Not to mention delayed tech doesn't really matter in money maps, and no one kills you early game unless they're a troll. 1) Following that logic, Zerg loses XXXX minerals for every building they make, which is true, but the point is that it isn't that big of a deal 2) You have much higher income than your opponent, yes you are getting your minerals quicker, not "free", but comparatively, your opponent is going through his minerals significantly slower, so the minerals may as well be free, because really, you are capable of creating an army that is much bigger than his in the same amount of time and thus you are always at an advantage in that regard. | ||
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