Putting an end to the Zerg Opening Economy debate. - Page 6

On November 30 2010 01:59 Chill wrote:
I've very happy this thread exists. I've felt helpless not knowing the ideal Zerg FE build.

Lomilar claimed this was a variation of the 7RR without the roaches... Unfortunately the longer mining time at ten drones has put it fairly low in the resources mined category relative to all the other builds. Also the overlords are clearly timed for pumping roaches instead of drones at half the supply.

I tried some minor adjustments to the build but haven't come up with anything substantial. Hopefully someone will produce something soon, because I really like the idea of an economical and still extremely flexible build. Once someone can raise the resources mined count higher, I think the added drone and perhaps overlord would make up the remaining difference.

On November 30 2010 01:59 Chill wrote:
I've very happy this thread exists. I've felt helpless not knowing the ideal Zerg FE build.

On November 30 2010 02:10 Xanbatou wrote:


First, I'm not sure why that build was copied twice. My bad.

Secondly, if that's true why is it runner-up? I was really hoping for that to be as good as the OP was making it sound, but if what you say is true, that is a damn shame.

On November 30 2010 01:51 Phrencys wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/35o22a5

9 Overlord
14 Spawning Pool
16 Hatchery (send @200 mineral) > +5 (10 sec)
15 Queen > Spawn Larvae[auto]
17 Overlord
18 Extractor > +3 (2 sec)
20 Overlord
20 Queen > Creep Tumor
32 Overlord
40 Overlord
48 Overlord
56 Overlord
7:00 Checkpoint

Edit: This said I have to agree with the OP's conclusion: I've yet to find a hatch first BO that can match the economy of the above BO. This is all theorycraft assuming no block though, an assertion that can very often go wrong in the real world.

On November 30 2010 07:28 Dominator1370 wrote:
I find it strange that you are invoking the scientific method but haven't bothered to consider the repeatability of your results. There are, inevitably, a number of small timings that could have a slight impact on your results, but since the difference between a number of your "contenders" is a only couple percentage points, it may be worth it to re-run your experiments a few times. One data point is hardly conclusive.

I'm also confused about Overlord timings in the builds you have listed. Some are very specific about them, and others less so. Variation in Overlord timing could certainly create small variations in results. It could certainly be the case that one of your sub-optimal builds, with variation in undefined Overlord timing, could pull ahead.

9 Overlord
14 Hatchery (send @200 mineral) > +2 (10 sec)
15 Spawning Pool
17 Overlord
19 Queen > Spawn Larvae[auto]
21 Queen > Spawn Larvae[auto]
26 Overlord
30 Overlord
42 Overlord
52 Overlord
60 Overlord
6:00 Checkpoint
7:00 Checkpoint

On November 30 2010 09:37 Fenam wrote:
Just playing around with the sc2calc build order calculator I came up with 14 Hatch 15 Pool being the best (beating out both later hatch firsts and all the pool firsts I tried. The calculator has a few flaws, like splitting drones evenly between hatcheries but not accounting for the travel time from where they're produced to when they go to the second hatchery. I think it still gives a strong outline though.

It turns out overlord timing can be pretty important, and can have a sizable impact on the end result. That's something that will have to be fine tuned with these builds. I played around with it and I feel like I have it set pretty good.

Another thing I liked about this build is that queens are synced up almost perfectly (3 seconds apart)

You should try testing this one in game and see how it works out.


http://tinyurl.com/37jhkhw

On November 30 2010 09:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:


Ok thanks... I've been meaning to test one of these builds recommended by these optimizers/calculators/testers...

One other question I have though: Do these programs value each drone equally in regard to mining, or do they adjust for the diminishing marginal value relative to the increasing marginal saturation of a base? This seems like a very complicated calculation and I suspect none of them take this into account. This difference though has been the difference between resources mined on many of the builds I have tested that are pool-first.

On November 30 2010 10:08 BnK wrote:
two ov's in a row for Lomilar's build?