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On December 02 2010 11:02 bmn wrote:
I counted each mineral node at the end of the 11 pool 18 hatch replay and came up with 20065. Subtracted from the 24000 minerals from 16 nodes at 2 bases, that comes out to 3935 minerals mined. Where does 4620 come from? Same for the 14 hatch 16 pool Dakaru posted. Why are the results off by 600-700 minerals if you have a replay.
This was already explained in a previous post...
We are using the replay tab "Resources Spent," and adding that to current minerals to find resources mined. The replay adds the starting units to minerals spent, which I believe is 700 additional minerals being recorded. This is the fastest way to gauge minerals mined, and doesn't change the mineral difference between builds, only the relative ratio difference. Since we aren't using such ratios, I felt it didn't matter.
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Hi,
I haven't actually used this in a game but I decided to try out build orders for this post. I found 16 hatch 15 pool to be most efficient.
The build order is as follows
9 ovie
16 hatch
15 pool
17 ovie
19 queen at the main
23 queen at the expansion
25 ovie
30 ovie
38 ovie
it hits 6:00 with 4800 minerals mined and 41.71 drones, which as far as I can tell from looking around is pretty good
NOTE: transfer three drones from the main when the expansion comes up and then rally all drones to the expansion. When 16 drones are either mining at the expansion or rallied to mine at the expansion move the main rally back to the main mineral line. Other than that pump drones as long as you can and that's the build.
Here is a replay
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/111354-1v1-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
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On December 02 2010 11:02 bmn wrote:
I counted each mineral node at the end of the 11 pool 18 hatch replay and came up with 20065. Subtracted from the 24000 minerals from 16 nodes at 2 bases, that comes out to 3935 minerals mined. Where does 4620 come from? Same for the 14 hatch 16 pool Dakaru posted. Why are the results off by 600-700 minerals if you have a replay.
Watch the replays and check the spending tab at the end, then add the current minerals on top. This should equal the total minerals mined (plus 50 from what you start with).
Edit: Sorry, beaten by hours, could've sworn I'd refreshed to the latest...
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Why do you have to make two ovies in a row on Lomilar's build? Why not make a drone at 18? Forgive me if I've counted something backwards...
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On December 02 2010 14:45 Drenova wrote:
Why do you have to make two ovies in a row on Lomilar's build? Why not make a drone at 18? Forgive me if I've counted something backwards...
I'm fairly sure it prevents being larvae capped. Can't make a drone at 18 until the 17 overlord finishes.
Btw, my build order app comes up with similar results for an 11 pool econ build.
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well that's retarded, for so long i say 14 hatch 15 pool is the way to go
ppl say "no go look at TL thread"
so i go look it says the other shit's better
but
now
look
AHHHHHHHHHHH!
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2 Things:
1: Did you test 15 Hatch 14 Pool?
2: Is 11 Pool able to get 3 Queens in a row as quick as possible? I like to get 3 (4 with Hatch first) up to spread creep like crazy.^^ Maybe there are no minerals for in the time you need?
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I haven't had time to play around with the 11/18 build much, but is the OP BO the most refined?
Back in beta I used to do an extractor trick - pool - OV - extractor trick and it gave me roughly an extra 1/2 larva spawn time at the cost of roughly 10 additional minerals.
Were small variances like that looked at?
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On December 03 2010 07:49 Jermstuddog wrote:
I haven't had time to play around with the 11/18 build much, but is the OP BO the most refined?
Back in beta I used to do an extractor trick - pool - OV - extractor trick and it gave me roughly an extra 1/2 larva spawn time at the cost of roughly 10 additional minerals.
Were small variances like that looked at?
You have to get an overlord before pool for this build to be economical. Everytime I tried pool first, it was among the worst of the builds in economy.
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sorry if this was already posted but did you try 14 hatch 16 pool?
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How come you didn't post the 16 Hatch 15 Pool build I sent you? It beats out the 11 pool by 150 minerals! It also beats out every other build you have put up so far. As a matter of fact it beats the supposed leader, 14 Pool 15 Hatch, while also maintaining the same pool time.
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Thanks for setting up this thread, finally some conclusive answers to our Zergie questions :D.
Really interesting to see an 11 pool build being 2nd in economy, looking forward to trying it out.
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Also, what's the deal with the discrepancy between the 11 pool data you posted in the table and the 11 pool data in the video. In the video the minerals are at 4539 and in the chart it's at 4620. When I tried the build myself I got 4529, so the number from the video seems much more realistic, and it's a very big difference.
If I can only get 4530 from the 11 pool then the 16 hatch 15 pool is 250 minerals ahead, which is almost an extra hatch.
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I checked to see what the minerals mined was in the 11 pool 18 hatch at the end of the second at 6:00 and it matched your data. That's what the difference is. Since I've taken all my data at the beginning of the second of 6:00 that puts the 16 hatch 15 pool 250 mineral ahead! That is not an inconsequential amount. That is almost enough for an extra hatchery, which is huge.
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I'm sorry, I've been spending my time on a new thread regarding the 11pool build. I will get around to testing your build order and I will update soon.
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I'm sorry, I've been spending my time on a new thread regarding the 11pool build. I will get around to testing your build order and I will update soon.
Hey, thanks. Here's another replay if it helps. I go to seven minutes this time and I also take special care not to put the first two drones on particular mineral patches, like the rules said.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/111768-1v1-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
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Alright ladies and gentlemen, here is my first attempt at the Lomilar build. Please bear with me. I played this 5 games yesterday morning, and this is what I got. Some of the games are messy, yes, but this is just to show the strengths and weaknesses of the build. Also, most of the time, I had to modify the build to deal with early pressure. However, I was using the Lomilar build as my base. Feedback is appreciated.
ZvP - Dark Templars
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-170922.jpg)
You can see I would have crushed him even sooner with my economy had I been prepared for the DTs and not scrambling for an overseer. My own stupidity, but the build is solid.
ZvZ - Heavily Modified
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-170921.jpg)
In this game, I didn't follow the Lomilar much at all early on. This replay shows the builds weakness to early pressure, but it also shows how you can easily adapt to that pressure and get back on track.
ZvT - ?
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-170919.jpg)
Sorry, don't remember what happened in this game and don't have time watch right now. I won against a Terran player with the build though.
ZvT against 2000+ Diamond
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-170916.jpg)
This game shows the early pressure power when required. Utilized lings and speedlings and dealt early damage. A better player could have ended the game much sooner, as many mistakes were made and this game was far too long (40 minutes) Still, it shows that the build works for the end game as well.
ZvZ - Ling/Bling
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-170913.jpg)
Once again, modified the build to deal with early pressure and moved into banelings.
Let me know what you guys think. I know these replays stray from the specific build order, but that is necessary to deal with pressure most games.
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can we please included one full saturated gas in these tests?
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The big problem with adding one saturated gas is when to get that gas. Diffrent builds will need a gas at diffrent times, combined with diffrent people value gas diffrently based on what they plan to do latter means diffrent times for gas by diffrent people even for the same build. Also how do you value one build that gets more gas against another build that gets more minerals? Is gas 2x as good as minerals or 3x? or more/less?
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set a specific time where you get the gas in every build? eg. The timing where 14 hatch 15 pool 16 gas occurs?
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EPT
