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On December 06 2010 15:53 ScythedBlade wrote:
Remember this: So technically, it's a build that yes, can snipe collosus very well. However, be very very aware that at any point you get 3 or 5 banshees, I would respond with a stargate and pump out phoenixes. In fact, I think that any smart protoss would just throw down a Stargate, because after all you spent resources on an air building. Technically, the protoss player won't be behind if he throws down an air building too.
I think Tester did this too where he went Collosus and Phoenixes. The phoenixes help draw fire from other stuff and vikings. And of course, they do kill banshees ...
While I think it's good in all, I *REALLY* think a better option is to make a LOT of Marauders. Collosus does a lot of splash, but it is SO good because collosus in few members CANNOT own maurauders fast enough before they can take out the collosus. That's usually why I choose to go storm tech. It's the same thing against roaches. It can't deal enough fast damage before that ball owns my gateway throwaways...
By the time I have 3-5 Banshees, that'll mean my 4 starports are up and running and you'll be hit by a timing push of 10ish banshees in another minute or two. Thats not nearly enough time to get your stargates up AND pump out enough phoenixs. And don't forget, I'm not going PURE banshees! There are ~50 marines out there for the sole purpose of killing whatever can kill the banshees. Just stack your banshees in the middle of the marine ball, and you're safe 
Not that I don't LOVE marauders, I just find it too risky against Toss who have great FFs, heavy zealots and lots of Colossus...they just melt 
On December 06 2010 17:35 Keilah wrote:
now this build may or may not work, but i just want to throw out there that most protoss players know that banshees (esp with ravens) rock stalkers, and will get phoenixes. I know I do.
The thing is, I won't reveal my 4 starports to the Protoss player. Deny scouting, avoid being countered.
On December 06 2010 18:37 Zaurus wrote:
I actually encounter this build while going collosus and FE when i spotted terran doing it. i stop all collosus production and when for high templar, i just wan my high templar out asap to feedback. i stop the first push. atk with 5-6 templar with storm. feedback all banshee b4 they cloak and storm one time. no terran unit survive at all. i apologise to the terran cause i lost around 20 supplies while he lost everything.
Well a smart terran would cloak before engaging xD If you go that heavy on templars so early, you won't have detection to handle the cloaked banshees. At most, 1 obs, which I'll snipe ASAP and then you're in trouble
On December 06 2010 22:45 Antisocialmunky wrote:
One of the pro-tips against fighting templar with feedback (this will prolly be your final push because you WILL lose the next one if he has templar) is toggle cloak until all your energy is gone.
Very useful tip for the late game when you know he has detection and wanna burn some energy off those HTs!
On December 07 2010 01:29 Mr_Kyo wrote:
I have trouble believing that early CC can work vs aggressive players. 4gates, 3gate robo, 3 gate startgate are all dificult to defend on even one base with bunkers. Otherwise, its a strategy I basically have been doing.
The 4 Gate push is the fastest rush out of all those, coming at the 6:00 mark if it's as fast as possible. My bunkers are up at 5:30 with 7 marines. With SCVs repairing the bunkers, there's no way the 4Gate breaks the bunkers. I've held it off before, and I've got the replays to prove it. Check em out. The other rushes are so much less potent as they come later and I have more and more marines to deal with it.
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Wow, I just watched the 4gate and that was the worst 4gate i've ever seen. Not only did it come late, he didnt have a proxy. He could have used the backdoor and destroy you (jungle basin). Moreover, Jungle Basin is kind of an easy map to defend a 4gate on... try xel-naga caverns.
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On December 07 2010 02:41 Mr_Kyo wrote:
Wow, I just watched the 4gate and that was the worst 4gate i've ever seen. Not only did it come late, he didnt have a proxy. He could have used the backdoor and destroy you (jungle basin). Moreover, Jungle Basin is kind of an easy map to defend a 4gate on... try xel-naga caverns.
I don't play on Xelnaga Caverns for that reason. Open naturals are too difficult to defend against. I would open with mass bio instead of bunkers on that map. How about Steppes?
http://www.mediafire.com/?6xll779bjk5008r
This version of the build is a little different to what I use now...I go bunkers before extra 2 Racks now, but this was still fine. Bunkers before racks is safer and faster for defense though. I'm confident in holding off 4Gates on maps like these.
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What if you put some tanks with siege tech in? maybe 2-4 tanks to kind of direct the fight in an area you want it to be in.
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On December 07 2010 03:18 specs wrote:
What if you put some tanks with siege tech in? maybe 2-4 tanks to kind of direct the fight in an area you want it to be in.
It can be a little tricky, because gas is at a premium...It's just enough to support constant production of Banshees out of 4 Starports plus upgrades...You'd have to cut a few units to get them. And why? Banshees clean up everything on the ground nicely enough, the threat is in the air. It's not necessary IMO and delays the push.
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Well, I am currently in page 4 of the build. Wouldn't this work better as a 2 Rax FE? Then transitioning into Starports.
The important thing is getting the 4 Gas, as for the scouting you can put down an engineering bay and put down a few turrets(may upgrade your marines). This sounds useful, but I do think that the 1 Rax FE is a bit risky.
But I really like the sound of this. Especially the BC transition
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On December 07 2010 03:46 windsupernova wrote:
Well, I am currently in page 4 of the build. Wouldn't this work better as a 2 Rax FE? Then transitioning into Starports.
The important thing is getting the 4 Gas, as for the scouting you can put down an engineering bay and put down a few turrets(may upgrade your marines). This sounds useful, but I do think that the 1 Rax FE is a bit risky.
But I really like the sound of this. Especially the BC transition
A 2 Rax FE could be safer, It's personally preference really. I've been just fine with a 1 Rax FE + Bunkers so far. If things change and I need more marines, then a 2 Rax FE is perfectly reasonable. Missile Turrets are a great mineral dump if you need one, as are a couple engineering bays. Just positioning them around your perimeter to deny warp prisms and observers and you're free to tech without getting scouted!
Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoy the build
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This build is bad against stargate builds, so if P is halfway decent and hides tech you will be SOL if phoenix/ray come
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On December 07 2010 04:38 tehemperorer wrote:
This build is bad against stargate builds, so if P is halfway decent and hides tech you will be SOL if phoenix/ray come
Well then I have a replay for yooooou!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sck9csqn8ki4n49
He opens Phoenixs into Colossi. You'd think this would work really well...Phoenix to kill the Banshees while the Colossi kills the Marines. However, if you turret up in your base and keep your banshees stacked on top of your marines, the Phoenix can't harass at all and then you can freely tech switch to Vikings, as I did. Vikings kill both those units, leaving my banshees free to clean up afterwards. Marines are the bane of Stargate units, and I am in no short supply of them. Void Rays do not excel in killing either banshees or marines, and are easily killed by vikings or marines, so they're not a threat.
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That was a very weird toss build. That was like a 1 gate stargate expand...?
Anyway, I'm curious if you have a gave vs mass blink stalker. I haven't seen then all.
Also, have you thought about getting Thors for Phoenix? They give you something beefy on the ground and shoot down phoenix and obs ala Painuser. It also uses the otherwise useless factory and is slightly infrastructure cheaper. Harass with banshees, reconoiter with your main army and push out with 6ish Banshee, 2 Thors and a buttload of Marines?
Also not so all-in because BCs take too long to critical mass and you get access to upgrades and can fall back on factory tech(tanks).
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On December 07 2010 02:26 Synystyr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 15:53 ScythedBlade wrote:
Remember this: So technically, it's a build that yes, can snipe collosus very well. However, be very very aware that at any point you get 3 or 5 banshees, I would respond with a stargate and pump out phoenixes. In fact, I think that any smart protoss would just throw down a Stargate, because after all you spent resources on an air building. Technically, the protoss player won't be behind if he throws down an air building too.
I think Tester did this too where he went Collosus and Phoenixes. The phoenixes help draw fire from other stuff and vikings. And of course, they do kill banshees ...
While I think it's good in all, I *REALLY* think a better option is to make a LOT of Marauders. Collosus does a lot of splash, but it is SO good because collosus in few members CANNOT own maurauders fast enough before they can take out the collosus. That's usually why I choose to go storm tech. It's the same thing against roaches. It can't deal enough fast damage before that ball owns my gateway throwaways... By the time I have 3-5 Banshees, that'll mean my 4 starports are up and running and you'll be hit by a timing push of 10ish banshees in another minute or two. Thats not nearly enough time to get your stargates up AND pump out enough phoenixs. And don't forget, I'm not going PURE banshees! There are ~50 marines out there for the sole purpose of killing whatever can kill the banshees. Just stack your banshees in the middle of the marine ball, and you're safe Not that I don't LOVE marauders, I just find it too risky against Toss who have great FFs, heavy zealots and lots of Colossus...they just melt Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 17:35 Keilah wrote:
now this build may or may not work, but i just want to throw out there that most protoss players know that banshees (esp with ravens) rock stalkers, and will get phoenixes. I know I do. The thing is, I won't reveal my 4 starports to the Protoss player. Deny scouting, avoid being countered. Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 18:37 Zaurus wrote:
I actually encounter this build while going collosus and FE when i spotted terran doing it. i stop all collosus production and when for high templar, i just wan my high templar out asap to feedback. i stop the first push. atk with 5-6 templar with storm. feedback all banshee b4 they cloak and storm one time. no terran unit survive at all. i apologise to the terran cause i lost around 20 supplies while he lost everything. Well a smart terran would cloak before engaging xD If you go that heavy on templars so early, you won't have detection to handle the cloaked banshees. At most, 1 obs, which I'll snipe ASAP and then you're in trouble Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 22:45 Antisocialmunky wrote:
One of the pro-tips against fighting templar with feedback (this will prolly be your final push because you WILL lose the next one if he has templar) is toggle cloak until all your energy is gone. Very useful tip for the late game when you know he has detection and wanna burn some energy off those HTs! Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 01:29 Mr_Kyo wrote:
I have trouble believing that early CC can work vs aggressive players. 4gates, 3gate robo, 3 gate startgate are all dificult to defend on even one base with bunkers. Otherwise, its a strategy I basically have been doing. The 4 Gate push is the fastest rush out of all those, coming at the 6:00 mark if it's as fast as possible. My bunkers are up at 5:30 with 7 marines. With SCVs repairing the bunkers, there's no way the 4Gate breaks the bunkers. I've held it off before, and I've got the replays to prove it. Check em out. The other rushes are so much less potent as they come later and I have more and more marines to deal with it.
Typically, there's two ways to prevent this. Sadly, by the time you have 50 marines and 3 - 5 banshees, or even 10 banshees, it's way too late. I would've had too much of an army to neutralize it. I haven't saved a replay for this (there are Terrans that do go mass banshees, and as annoying as it is,
Basically, if you see a ton of marines, you're going to think: Either banshees, FE, or tanks. However, the PvT FE build deals with this very nicely, because that obs WILL see your tech tree, and if I see more than 2 Banshees, it's enough to throw down a Stargate. (If I see a Raven, I'll still throw it down, because those ravens are pesky)
Also, if you do have 10 banshees, that means you have around 1000 Gas. THAT is a lot of gas, just so you know. Expect protoss to have a one or two collosi by then, and enough phoenixes. Generally, phoenixes in 1:2 ratio of banshees will rape enough. The other part you must realize (aka, why I think I've been winning against similar builds) is that your marines are either a) shooting at ground units or b) shooting at phoenixes. Anytime you're not, the collosus + zealots will rape your whole ground army, or I'll just pull away phoenixes while it does and re-engage to kill the banshees)
In the end, it'll fall down to if you can micro well enough. But a smart protoss will be able to counter this easily. (Also, as I read more and more, this build becomes *REALLY* late. In fact, late enough to get Templar tech, which as far as I've known, really kills terran =/)
Still a good build nevertheless. Most of the ladder players won't be able to really counter it. =/
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On December 07 2010 10:50 Antisocialmunky wrote:
That was a very weird toss build. That was like a 1 gate stargate expand...?
Anyway, I'm curious if you have a gave vs mass blink stalker. I haven't seen then all.
Also, have you thought about getting Thors for Phoenix? They give you something beefy on the ground and shoot down phoenix and obs ala Painuser. It also uses the otherwise useless factory and is slightly infrastructure cheaper. Harass with banshees, reconoiter with your main army and push out with 6ish Banshee, 2 Thors and a buttload of Marines?
Also not so all-in because BCs take too long to critical mass and you get access to upgrades and can fall back on factory tech(tanks).
I don't have any mass blink stalkers...I have a couple games that include blink stalkers, but none of significance And this Thor idea keeps popping into my head...I mean why not right? I can add a tech lab to the factory and burn through my excess resources a little quicker with a couple thors. Strong, great AA and scares protoss into making units that don't counter my build Good call!
On December 07 2010 11:04 ScythedBlade wrote:
Typically, there's two ways to prevent this. Sadly, by the time you have 50 marines and 3 - 5 banshees, or even 10 banshees, it's way too late. I would've had too much of an army to neutralize it. I haven't saved a replay for this (there are Terrans that do go mass banshees, and as annoying as it is,
Basically, if you see a ton of marines, you're going to think: Either banshees, FE, or tanks. However, the PvT FE build deals with this very nicely, because that obs WILL see your tech tree, and if I see more than 2 Banshees, it's enough to throw down a Stargate. (If I see a Raven, I'll still throw it down, because those ravens are pesky)
Also, if you do have 10 banshees, that means you have around 1000 Gas. THAT is a lot of gas, just so you know. Expect protoss to have a one or two collosi by then, and enough phoenixes. Generally, phoenixes in 1:2 ratio of banshees will rape enough. The other part you must realize (aka, why I think I've been winning against similar builds) is that your marines are either a) shooting at ground units or b) shooting at phoenixes. Anytime you're not, the collosus + zealots will rape your whole ground army, or I'll just pull away phoenixes while it does and re-engage to kill the banshees)
In the end, it'll fall down to if you can micro well enough. But a smart protoss will be able to counter this easily. (Also, as I read more and more, this build becomes *REALLY* late. In fact, late enough to get Templar tech, which as far as I've known, really kills terran =/)
Still a good build nevertheless. Most of the ladder players won't be able to really counter it. =/
You bring up interesting micro points. I believe that if you choose to engage without your phoenixs at ANY point, the banshees will clear out everything on the ground. It really just comes down to better micro in this situation, but like hell I'll let that happen  And of course, 4 Starports can let me tech switch to vikings EXTREMELY quickly. Vikings kill colossi and phoenixs. The vikings will steal threat away from the banshees and get focused by the phoenix, making your job to micro much more difficult.
However, you still bank on the fact that you'll scout the Banshees quick enough to amass a counter, where I'm sure I'll deny your scouting to prevent you from getting to that point. High templars don't scare me...I can keep my energy down on my banshees and storm dodge quite easily with them. You're very limited by your gas to how many HTs you can make. I'm confident in my build. I believe I can tech switch to counter whatever you may pull easily and force you into situations that favor me.
And thanks for the feedback! I appreciate your optimism
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All I'm saying is, everytime someone posts anything that could potentially beat this, you have posted a crappy replay, against a crappy protoss player, or cast things off as 'thats just micro points'
Yet you seem to be supreme theorycraft being, being able to keep your 50 marines from being hit 3 times, thats it, by collsai as that's all it takes to kill them. So what happens when they FF you back, climb a cliff with the collsai, and pick you off with phoenix if you try and chase? Oh I'm sure you haven't experienced that.
You seem to always be 'ready' for anything, but with marine banshee, no medics, you aren't. You're eggs are all in 1 basket with the banshees. And you say 'oh have cloak' Yet when do you have the gas for it? When do you scout/scan their base, and see all their hidden buildings to get a gauge on what they really have?
Favorite part was the 3-5 banshees "I'll have 10 in 1 minute or two" ya... 2500/1000, really fast income, yet you still have '50' marines. It just seems you're sitting way too hard on theorycraft, and I think you're "95%" is such a gross exaggeration. As a 400 games 2200 player, I'm positive you aren't losing to only zergs and terrans.
However, you still bank on the fact that you'll scout the Banshees quick enough to amass a counter, where I'm sure I'll deny your scouting to prevent you from getting to that point. High templars don't scare me...I can keep my energy down on my banshees and storm dodge quite easily with them. You're very limited by your gas to how many HTs you can make. I'm confident in my build. I believe I can tech switch to counter whatever you may pull easily and force you into situations that favor me.
2 gate robo, or some build of the likes, has an OB out WAY early into your base. You somehow can deny scouting....how?
And the high templars don't scare me is the icing on the cake of disbelief of you playing any good protoss player. Once that HT comes out with storm ready, you can't storm dodge 50 marines and 10 banshees out of a HALF DECENTLY placed storm. Banshees are your ONLY option of offense in this strat. What keeps the protoss from expanding with phoenix support? They're MUCH faster, and you're going to keep your marines with the banshees at all times? I doubt that. Otherwise, they're not being nearly cost effective without harassing protoss base.
Anyway, I'm curious if you have a gave vs mass blink stalker. I haven't seen then all.
This is when you'll hate life, my friend. When that decent protoss player scouts your base, sees the bunker + marines, knows tech, and goes 3 gate blink stalker and hops right into your base and and eats your marines like they're nothing.
I'm not meaning to be a prick, I just think it's way to dependent on stupid protoss moves and you're apparently uncanny ability to deny scouting/always have proper units and counters. I feel if you had that ability even nearly as much as you claim, you'd be higher than 2200.
rant
And stop being like ASMonkey and linking your thread any chance you get lol, that's annoying.
/rant
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On December 08 2010 07:48 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +Anyway, I'm curious if you have a gave vs mass blink stalker. I haven't seen then all.
This is when you'll hate life, my friend. When that decent protoss player scouts your base, sees the bunker + marines, knows tech, and goes 3 gate blink stalker and hops right into your base and and eats your marines like they're nothing.
This is the reason I want reps, you can shut down most port heavy builds with blink stalkers or chargelot phoenix depending on the map because it relies on the bunker.
And last time I checked, you were sitting on the mid-high diamond border that's ~2300K Jeffy. :-\
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On December 08 2010 08:24 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 07:48 iAmJeffReY wrote:Anyway, I'm curious if you have a gave vs mass blink stalker. I haven't seen then all.
This is when you'll hate life, my friend. When that decent protoss player scouts your base, sees the bunker + marines, knows tech, and goes 3 gate blink stalker and hops right into your base and and eats your marines like they're nothing. This is the reason I want reps, you can shut down most port heavy builds with blink stalkers or chargelot phoenix depending on the map because it relies on the bunker. And last time I checked, you were sitting on the mid-high diamond border that's ~2300K Jeffy. :-\
I only agreed, as I play marine heavy vs toss and blink stalker shits all over me.
I'm 2399 in the same, if not less games, than it took him to 2200 is all. I also play only on fridays, and never practice or ladder except fridays. I also never, have yet, to claim I was good. Infact, I insist I'm lower level player.
I just see flaws in his 'strategy' as it's such pure theorycraft and seems to be vs very, very passive protoss.
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great job! i can tell women give you a lot of nookie
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Yeah, you and me both which is why I favor the 2 Rax Select FE for marine/marauder. Just out of curiosity, what sort of mass marine can you play against toss?
Don't get me wrong though: I agree one most of the issues you brought up with this build such as it being completely passive and rely partially on avoiding scouting, I just think its in poor taste to take a pop shot at someone's rank on the idiotic ladder system.
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All I'm saying is, everytime someone posts anything that could potentially beat this, you have posted a crappy replay, against a crappy protoss player, or cast things off as 'thats just micro points'
I wish I really did have more replays to show the potential of this build. I'm working with what I have, and every Protoss I play can't be absolutely amazing. Trust me, if I could have a practice partner of pro caliber, I'd run this over and over against them until I worked out all the tweaks. I still stand by my build, and I'll defend it. I don't by any means think it's unbeatable, but I do believe that I can always turn a situation into my favor with what I have.
Yet you seem to be supreme theorycraft being, being able to keep your 50 marines from being hit 3 times, thats it, by collsai as that's all it takes to kill them. So what happens when they FF you back, climb a cliff with the collsai, and pick you off with phoenix if you try and chase? Oh I'm sure you haven't experienced that.
I lose my marines to 1-2 Colossi every time I push with them. I'll never defend that I can keep them alive my micro is terriawful. I haven't faced that situation, but if I did, I'd salvage my remaining units and tech switch to Vikings, which handle both units just fine. It wouldn't be ideal, but I'm certainly not dead.
You seem to always be 'ready' for anything, but with marine banshee, no medics, you aren't. You're eggs are all in 1 basket with the banshees. And you say 'oh have cloak' Yet when do you have the gas for it? When do you scout/scan their base, and see all their hidden buildings to get a gauge on what they really have?
Gas is not an issue. Try the build yourself. You have an income of 440 gas/min. Banshees cost 100 gas each with 60 seconds of build time. With a stable income, I can produce banshees nonstop, and with the little bit of gas I banked before I started making banshees, I can afford upgrades and a raven.
I scout with a proxy barracks with my scouting worker. I float it off into their base and look for any signs of gateway pressure. If it's there, I'll spend more on defence, whereas if I see tech such as a Robo or Stargate, I adapt accordingly. I scan when I remember, but I'm pretty bad at that. I still get caught off guard, but I've always been able to adapt to the situation.
Favorite part was the 3-5 banshees "I'll have 10 in 1 minute or two" ya... 2500/1000, really fast income, yet you still have '50' marines. It just seems you're sitting way too hard on theorycraft, and I think you're "95%" is such a gross exaggeration. As a 400 games 2200 player, I'm positive you aren't losing to only zergs and terrans.
A misunderstanding, I mean 95% win rate AFTER I started using this build, which was only a few weeks ago. My bad. I may exaggerate a little with the banshees, but 4 a minute means 8 in 2 minutes. Not totally unreasonable. The 50 marines is true also. 2Rax with Reactor and 1 regular allows 5 marine production at a time, and in the time it takes me to get my banshees out, I can easily have the number. Mules give me lots of minerals and they are my mineral dump. I lose 80% of my TvTs. I'm god damn awful at it...I split 50/50 with Zerg. I'm on tilt playing them atm.
Show nested quote +However, you still bank on the fact that you'll scout the Banshees quick enough to amass a counter, where I'm sure I'll deny your scouting to prevent you from getting to that point. High templars don't scare me...I can keep my energy down on my banshees and storm dodge quite easily with them. You're very limited by your gas to how many HTs you can make. I'm confident in my build. I believe I can tech switch to counter whatever you may pull easily and force you into situations that favor me.
2 gate robo, or some build of the likes, has an OB out WAY early into your base. You somehow can deny scouting....how?
My definition of "scout denying" for this build is not allowing my 4 starports to be scouted. I use my Raven+marines to kill the obs, then start the 4 ports.
And the high templars don't scare me is the icing on the cake of disbelief of you playing any good protoss player. Once that HT comes out with storm ready, you can't storm dodge 50 marines and 10 banshees out of a HALF DECENTLY placed storm. Banshees are your ONLY option of offense in this strat. What keeps the protoss from expanding with phoenix support? They're MUCH faster, and you're going to keep your marines with the banshees at all times? I doubt that. Otherwise, they're not being nearly cost effective without harassing protoss base.
Trust me, I used to HATE HTs. Storm on top of stormed bio --> (-_-'). Like I said earlier, I lose lots of marines! They're replaceable though. The important part is keeping my banshees alive, which I dump my micro into. Yes, you are right that Banshees are my only option of offense, but honestly, it is all I need. I don't harass, because I don't have the APM or the micro to do it properly. This is an error on my part, but who says a better player can't come along and pick that slack up? We're discussing a build and its various uses, not my level of play. I find the way I use my banshees to be perfectly cost effective. If I lose the first push due to phoenixs, I'll tech switch to vikings, once again. There are many simple transitions out of this build.
Show nested quote +Anyway, I'm curious if you have a gave vs mass blink stalker. I haven't seen then all.
This is when you'll hate life, my friend. When that decent protoss player scouts your base, sees the bunker + marines, knows tech, and goes 3 gate blink stalker and hops right into your base and and eats your marines like they're nothing.
I've had it happened to me with my practice partner. The very first time I ever used this build against him, he blind blink stalker rushed me and I fell to pieces. Personally, I'm paranoid of blink stalkers now and I keep a close eye out for that if I scout a stalker heavy army. If I were to face that now, I would abort to 3 Tech Lab Rax, instead of TRR. My next two barracks will just be building when the tech path for Blink is clear. I've defended a couple rushes with SCVs pulls and better marine micro than the Protoss, but it's a threat.
I still believe that a Blink Stalker rush counters my style of FE, not the build or the unit composition itself. If I were less stubborn and 2 Rax FEed instead, blink stalkers would be a non-issue.
I'm not meaning to be a prick, I just think it's way to dependent on stupid protoss moves and you're apparently uncanny ability to deny scouting/always have proper units and counters. I feel if you had that ability even nearly as much as you claim, you'd be higher than 2200.
Only against Protoss do I have this magic ability I'm too nerve wracked to ladder right now. My TvT is horrendous, and I'm on tilt playing Zerg. Protoss is my only confident matchup. I don't think a standard 3 Gate Robo or 4 Gate from a Toss is stupid....I can exploit it with my build better than others. The people I play aren't bad. Many of those games are ladder against 2k+ Protoss. I defend my build, once again.
rant
And stop being like ASMonkey and linking your thread any chance you get lol, that's annoying.
/rant
Shameless advertising. I like my build, and I want to share it :D. If you don't like it, ah well. Many won't, but it gets the point across
Thanks for the feedback!
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On December 08 2010 08:44 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Yeah, you and me both which is why I favor the 2 Rax Select FE for marine/marauder. Just out of curiosity, what sort of mass marine can you play against toss?
Don't get me wrong though: I agree one most of the issues you brought up with this build such as it being completely passive and rely partially on avoiding scouting, I just think its in poor taste to take a pop shot at someone's rank on the idiotic ladder system.
I 1 rax reactor FE to 4 rax 2 reactor 2 tech lab, two pushes, first a stim push, followed by 4 refinery ghost push. Unfortunately, if that doesn't end it, I'm too far behind tech wise so I gotta faggot it up play wise.
Or, I 2 rax stim open, 13 rax 16 rax reactor/techlab respectively and go 90% marines, 10% marauders. I push with a proxy manner fac floater up ramp to snipe + block them, followed by 2 port banshees. My stim push is something like 15 or so marines, and 2 marauders.
I only switch to heavy marauder after collsai pop. Even late game when collsai -> HT switch comes, I go marine ghost medic only. Just abuse the rebound rate of my units, and mobility of medivacs with range of EMP.
Just like vs terran, I mass marines as the rebound is much faster. Marines have this window when stim > gateway units especially if they 2 gate robo, as the collsai has a couple of minutes until it's out with range, and immortals get shat all over by marines.
I play VERY heavy marine style. And I wouldn't say the system is idiotic, as it seems to place people where they belong. People hit these walls and refuse to blame themselves, it's the strat the enemy used, or blah blah blah. I have no problem admitting I'm not good. I made it this far with just plain macro.
Just a side note -- I post replays of games I win and lose on gamereplays. I have no shame hiding my stats, or 'strategies' if you can call them that. I just know when things have weaknesses, and I'm only merely trying to point them out for him. He seems to be set on this being an A+ strategy. Sure, It can work, and probably very effectively if the protoss plays into his hands.
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Well I suppose that works quite well.
Man, I miss the days of 10 Rax Gas where I could rally a marauder to the zerg main and kill their first units and apply never ending pressure...
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EPT
