EPTThanx for the upgrade statistics OP. I'll go bio&air armor first vs Z at all times now.
[R] mass vikings against zerg seems viable? - Page 6
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Cibron
Sweden253 Posts
Thanx for the upgrade statistics OP. I'll go bio&air armor first vs Z at all times now. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
Zergies that go spire dont like air dominance taken from them  | ||
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But they are a good way of taking map control for the terran. Since vikings can take air domination if you don't lose them early when they are weak in numbers. Tryed for some time to make a mech play with vikings against zerg, when they went muta baneling, But got outmacroed sadly, because low numbers of vikings are no problem for mutas, and i was afraid of moving out. They are perfect though to fend of muta harassment if you have a few thors and towers. But anti armor ground to ground units are pure evil against them. | ||
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On November 23 2010 20:57 Cibron wrote: I dont get why everybody is whining about this thread. The info is relevant for the TvZ matchup as Mech requires vikings to counter BL lategame and you should always OL harass. Nobody said anything about a mass viking build, unit numbers just tend to escalate late game... Thanx for the upgrade statistics OP. I'll go bio&air armor first vs Z at all times now. Should read the Thread Title and the OP (as well as watch replays if you care to do so). This is a discussion on the utility/viability of mass viking play in TvZ. | ||
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Riven_435
United States2 Posts
On November 17 2010 16:15 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: and from what you've said, unupgraded mutas beat vikings 1:1, so for a heavy part of the game, Z will have an aerial advantage that will be very hard to defend against if you're trying to build that many vikings. Actually, mutas only beat vikings 1v1 with no upgrades if both armies have a lot (24) of them. As he stated above. 4 unupgraded mutas will not beat 4 unupgraded vikings. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On November 23 2010 21:34 SovSov wrote: ...but then the Zerg transitions into a huge ground army and rapes you? add a few cloack banshees and wall your natural tight. whenever he tryes to break you, you kill the overseers with your vikings asap and let the banshees finish their job while you go hunt overlords again. to counter this build Z has to play very agressively off of 2 bases. probably bane/roach/ling or something or get hydras asap. but either way: droning is forbidden. | ||
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Ohitefin
United States19 Posts
In the mean time I had an additional expo up and starting going back to MMM. The reason for the creep tumor removal was that I went for hunter seekers. He ventured out with his hydras (He was pretty good so had a nice group of them by the time he started pushing out) and since hydras move so slow out of creep guess what happened to them when 2-3 hunter seekers hit them (Boom Baby). After that my MMM cleaned up. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On November 24 2010 02:22 Ohitefin wrote: Played an awesome TvZ recently where this scenario happened. He went mutas and since I scouted him I went for vikings (smart or not, just felt like it). I won the air battle against the mutas and forced him to make hydras. I stopped production of vikings by this point however and brought a raven out. Once I had air dominance I started going around the map with vikings and raven and taking out creep tumors. In the mean time I had an additional expo up and starting going back to MMM. The reason for the creep tumor removal was that I went for hunter seekers. He ventured out with his hydras (He was pretty good so had a nice group of them by the time he started pushing out) and since hydras move so slow out of creep guess what happened to them when 2-3 hunter seekers hit them (Boom Baby). After that my MMM cleaned up. I think herein lies the golden nuggets of this discussion thread. Force zerg to make certain units, and destroy the creep that's slowly covering the map. While it's much easier to spread creep than it is destroy creep tumors, it's similarly much more difficult to re-start the spread of creep tumors once the highway is in pieces. By that time in the game there is so much to do that most players (myself included) won't be bothered with starting it up again. And you're absolutely right... this makes hydras completely useless. Any hydra aggression off-creep should be (rightly) considered an all-in attack, because there is no retreat. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
1. Hydra (pretty bad) 2. Infestor IMO infestors, despite being just OP as hell in general, will provide huge problems if they can land even one fungal growth. | ||
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xseverityx
52 Posts
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
On November 24 2010 10:37 xseverityx wrote: checkout Nestea in 1st r64 match of gsl3....terran played well got vikings to counter muta/broodlords but nestea ofc already knew this would happen and just tech switched to ultra in 1 production cycle with the armor upgrade already complete. It totally showed how getting too many of a specific counter-unit is only going to get you killed vs zerg If Jys had gotten the planetary fortress wall up in the center, that game would've gone a lot differently imo. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
There was all of one mention of this, and no discussion, but a Terran player actually did go mass vikings in the GSL, to amazing effect. | ||
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xseverityx
52 Posts
On November 24 2010 10:59 Chiponyasu wrote: http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1337 There was all of one mention of this, and no discussion, but a Terran player actually did go mass vikings in the GSL, to amazing effect. Wow the timing on the mass air was definitely impressive, but I can't help but think that only worked out because of the surprise element and that could be reacted to more efficiently, the 3 rax wall that wasn't doing anything....thats a lot of resources invested early on that weren't doing anything. seems kind of flimsy TBH...nonetheless very impressive how he pulled it off. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On November 24 2010 10:59 Chiponyasu wrote: http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1337 There was all of one mention of this, and no discussion, but a Terran player actually did go mass vikings in the GSL, to amazing effect. Holy crap, I guess you need 3 starports to maintain the viking production. The 3rax wall was actually crucial to prevent baneling/roach busts. Though as artosis pointed out, Infestors would have destroyed this build. (In fact infestors seem to destroy ANY terran build). Thanks for the stream Chiponyasu, I've modified my OP and given you credit for it. | ||
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
also, you have to ask yourself not only if viking are cost effective against mutas in and of themselves, but also if they are the most cost effective solution to mutas terran has. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On November 24 2010 13:02 universalwill wrote: ok, have a blast countering my mutalisks. i'll just throw down a hydra den and take advantage of your complete lack of ground army. also, you have to ask yourself not only if viking are cost effective against mutas in and of themselves, but also if they are the most cost effective solution to mutas terran has. I think its pretty much accepted that hydras are considered crap in ZvT. Even mass marines will counter hydras. Vikings can also be used to snipe overlords into oblivion. | ||
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Pewt
Canada201 Posts
On November 24 2010 10:58 DreamSailor wrote: If Jys had gotten the planetary fortress wall up in the center, that game would've gone a lot differently imo. PFs are awful against Ultralisks and even if they weren't Jys' army was so badly steamrolled in the last fight that a PF would not have helped. On November 26 2010 03:14 Griffith` wrote: I think its pretty much accepted that hydras are considered crap in ZvT. Even mass marines will counter hydras. Vikings can also be used to snipe overlords into oblivion. Not if your opponent is massing air (re: hydras being crap). | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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