EPTBest way to spread marines
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Kenchu
Sweden5 Posts
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
That's why not everyone can do it. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
he doesn't even split up his control groups into more than one. | ||
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nosk
United States21 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
So, just box click box click box click  First box half or most of them, move away from the remaining, then split that group, etc. If you box only about half for the first spread, then of course after your spread that new spread again, you should go back to the remaining half and move them back and split them up too. | ||
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Gridlock
United Kingdom517 Posts
I'd also advise to play in the Editor a little to get a really good idea of the baneling splash radius, being able to spread your 'rines the exact right amount and maximise firing time is the most important. PS: This is coming from a T who's 'rine micro is non existent  | ||
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MadBoat
127 Posts
I used to set up a contain VS zerg on maps where the ramp between their natural and main was closer to me than his natural by covering that ramp with a PF. I keep my mass marine force next to it while it was building, and Invariably, when they saw the PF going down they'd run banes in to take me out. I just clustered the marines around the PF, and the banelings were much less threatening. But yeah, in all other cases, you have to have crazy micro. | ||
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prototypue
United States20 Posts
Of course if the zerg micros then this technique is much less effective. lol. | ||
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CreepGin
United States35 Posts
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
On November 10 2010 10:07 CreepGin wrote: Spreading stim'ed marines while the speed banelings are on the move can be hard to pull off. This is where you should spread your marines *before-hand* based on your scouting or game intuition. Holy crap. This is the answer if you're not FoxeR. Have little pockets of marines spread out. Stagger the tanks. The key is spreading out and creating more distance in between splashes and more travel time to allow more tank/marine shots. If you're worried about mutalisks sniping targets with your marines so spread out, invest in a couple of ravens for PDD. PDD lasts forever and absorbs 20 shots. EDIT: I'm Zerg, but I've pulled this off against low-diamond minimal-micro Zergs as Terran. It's definitely doable and WAY better than losing 30 marines to a mere handful of banes. | ||
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wxwx
527 Posts
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Rodregeus
Australia126 Posts
On November 10 2010 06:14 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: First box half or most of them, move away from the remaining, then split that group, etc. If you box only about half for the first spread, then of course after your spread that new spread again, you should go back to the remaining half and move them back and split them up too. I can't believe I never thought of this. -_- I always tried to box a small group at the edge of the main group and move them, then go grab another handful and move them somewhere else, rinse repeat. Would get a few groups split off and then the bulk, who were still in the starting position, would melt in a sea of green. >.< Boxing all bar a handful, moving them, then boxing most of those again and moving seems so much easier! O.o Will try it when i get home!  | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Victim
United States188 Posts
On November 10 2010 06:14 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Haha. Really it is a bit annoying... why are people asking so much about this? Because there's a trick for Mutas against Thors? | ||
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squintz
Canada217 Posts
Stim all your marines, move them all back. Then use selection box to pick a few to move into different directions. Try to fan out them out clockwise and make them move. Minimize on the amount of moving you have to do so you can actually deal damage. Too much to do with too little time? Try sacrificing some marines as baneling chaffs and flares. Use the first group you select and run them TOWARDS the banelings. Then fan the rest out. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
that is the best way, many many actions to spread them? no trick here. | ||
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jamesmax
Canada72 Posts
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
it's sc2 for god sakes you have to have at least 3-4 control groups open. that's how toss spread out units vs t in bw, it's a good technique against splash damage. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
Depending on that I would decide how to spread my marines. Before the fight, or in the fight, or maybe just run them away and split in maybe 2 or 3 groups only, because my tanks will take care of the blings. Spreading is no thing you do while the blings are on the run and about to explode in your marines, because that's not cost-efficient 90% of the time if you're not Foxer (and even Foxer doesn't a-moves blindly with his push and miracly spreads his marines, he also prepares it). You actually prepare it when you think he might attack your push or you prepare it in your mind and look for signs when he wants to engage (I usually stim-run 1 or 2 marines in front of my push to check) to do it as fast as possible when the banelings are actually coming (I especially do that if there is no tank support, but you should also do it with tanks). Really, I think the best way to spread is to check the front of your push with 1 or 2 marines all the time, it gives you so much time and it's really not impossible to do. Another way of doing that is scanning, but I'm really cautious with scanning too much because it can really put you behind economy-wise. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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depriveterran
Afghanistan51 Posts
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archwaykitten
90 Posts
You want to break the habit of always boxing units the same way (all my boxes tend to be made from the top left to the bottom right, for example). If you are planning to move a group of marines up and to the left, it makes sense to start your box selection on the bottom right. That way as soon as you finish your selection your mouse is already as close as possible to where you want to send your troops. You want to minimize the distance your mouse has to travel as much as possible. Sometimes making selections like this will help shave a split second between commands and sometimes it won't (but it will never add time, assuming you get good at it). It all depends on where your mouse cursor is when you first decide to box and move units. This will never save very much time, of course, but sometimes a split second delay is all it takes for those banelings to close in and cause terrible damage. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
It's kind of like cloning except with way more units. You can also clone if you can de-select 10 marines with lightning speed, but that's faster. You can do the whole split before the first group reaches their destination if you do it fast enough. | ||
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:33 MayorITC wrote: What I really wanna know was how oov did his spread in the pimpest plays. Was it three different control groups? Cause if it was through manual selecting and splitting, it makes Foxer look like a complete amateur. There was a FPVOD of that game floating around and he manually clicked each group. Impressive is such an understatement, too. | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
The biggest challenge is keeping your macro going strong while you micro your bionic. If you get caught out of position, or your marines aren't spread already, even if you are in your base for only a few seconds you can get completely wrecked by infestors and banelings. Your mini-map reaction time also needs to be pretty good. Has anyone else noticed the similarity in Foxer style TvZ and Flash's TvZ on Fighting Spirit? | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:23 Shikyo wrote: I have no idea what Foxer does, but the BEST way is to select them all, move them to back and to the side. Then, you keep selecting about 4/5 of the group, moving them to the side, and select a large chunk again and again, splitting your whole army into a fan formation, with them all surrounding the area the banelings are coming from. It's kind of like cloning except with way more units. You can also clone if you can de-select 10 marines with lightning speed, but that's faster. You can do the whole split before the first group reaches their destination if you do it fast enough. This is how to do it. In short: box click really fast. A lot of it comes down to reaction time. | ||
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Galaxy77
Hong Kong256 Posts
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
say the banelings are coming from a certain direction, and only that direction. 1) Move entire ball perpendicular to that direction in direction A. 2) split half the ball to move 180 degrees from A. Repeat slitting in halves along perpendicular axis to get initial spread. Then move certain groups forwards or backwards as the need arises. Easiest to do the perpendicular split first though, followed by movement in the same direction as the banelings are going. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
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Zip!
31 Posts
If you have a tight clump of units, box them all and tell them to patrol to just outside the radius of the clump. The pathing will cause them to spread out in an attempt to not bump into each other. Once they're spread, either stop or hold position. P-click-H. I'll have to test it with marines once I'm not at work to see if it spreads them far enough to reduce baneling splash. | ||
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shutdown_exploded
United States133 Posts
If you're going heavy bio and they're responding with banelings it might be worth looking into. | ||
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Shankapotamus
United States428 Posts
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[Atomic]Peace
United States451 Posts
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:44 junemermaid wrote: There was a FPVOD of that game floating around and he manually clicked each group. Impressive is such an understatement, too. Foxer also manually clicks each group right? | ||
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
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HTX
Germany265 Posts
Then i run towards the banelings with my Marauders. If your opponent just a clicked into your army then all the banes explode on the Marauders and you can hold your position with your marines. | ||
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
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SamuraiProgrammer
United States13 Posts
On November 10 2010 14:53 squintz wrote: Too much to do with too little time? Try sacrificing some marines as baneling chaffs and flares. Use the first group you select and run them TOWARDS the banelings. Then fan the rest out. I think this is an excellent strategy. Banelings win when their splash damage kills units that exceed their cost. Banelings do not win if they die at too low of a ratio to the units they kill. By intelligently sacrifiicing your marines a few at a time, you can actually win that engagement. | ||
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IAttackYou
United States330 Posts
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kYem
United Kingdom412 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/368/screenshot2010112120250.jpg) You can fit 3 marines in that gap, its rather huge. Its seems like you have to spread marine a lot further than i originally thought. Its means that your best bet to reduce the numbers of banelings, so for example go for more marauder focused army after battle, next cycle should be marines with tanks. Hmm even with great spread banelings are actually very cost effective vs light units. the problem i see is that they cost gas, that means less mutas, however if you are to passive that means he will get that critical number very fast and the gas can go tech or MASS of banelings like morphing 44 zerglings in to banelings would be easy. i suppose you want to pressure zerg as soon as his first 6 mutas pop out so the muta count wont be higher than 12 ( turrets are still ok with repairs however anything higher than that you need extra forces to defend cot efficiently ) | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
I'm really good at it, once a guy remarked that I must have gotten the gosu spreading from my mother. Apparently she also has a nasty spread, if I have to believe the zerg that I beat with it. | ||
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DiZasteR
Netherlands84 Posts
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shutdown_exploded
United States133 Posts
In theory it should, right? | ||
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helokity
Canada47 Posts
On November 22 2010 06:36 shutdown_exploded wrote: does magic box work with marine positioning? In theory it should, right? ground units form balls, not magic boxes. and theyd need a HUUUGE spread because of baneling radius. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On November 22 2010 06:36 shutdown_exploded wrote: does magic box work with marine positioning? In theory it should, right? yeah it works but it's not exactly magic boxing. One thing to remember is to never issue a move or attack command inside the "box". And if you want that your spread stay "spreaded", issue the move or attack command very far (like use the minimap) so the marine will clump much slower. | ||
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tzadik
10 Posts
So, do you use a-click when you spread, or do you just right click? If the banelings are too close and you a-click, then it seems like your marines will just start attacking the banelings and not move enough to spread. But if you just right click your marines won't start attacking quickly and the banes have time to run up. Or am I missing something? I'm actually a fairly high ranked diamond, but against zerg I usually do hellion into banshee into mech, so I'm pretty noob at microing rines against banes. Also, I remember enjoying some micro practice maps in BW that actually improved my game in the long run. Is there anything simlar in SC2 that might have this kind of thing? | ||
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yaeger
Norway98 Posts
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lifecanwait
96 Posts
On January 06 2011 16:07 tzadik wrote: I'm gonna revive this thread, because there's one thing I don't get. What gets me about marine spreading is that it's quite easy to get the marines to run away in at least two different groups if you just right click, but you also want them to start attacking the banelings as soon as possible since you have so little time. So, do you use a-click when you spread, or do you just right click? If the banelings are too close and you a-click, then it seems like your marines will just start attacking the banelings and not move enough to spread. But if you just right click your marines won't start attacking quickly and the banes have time to run up. Or am I missing something? I'm actually a fairly high ranked diamond, but against zerg I usually do hellion into banshee into mech, so I'm pretty noob at microing rines against banes. Also, I remember enjoying some micro practice maps in BW that actually improved my game in the long run. Is there anything simlar in SC2 that might have this kind of thing? you can use the patrol command for that purpose, which makes them run back and return once they reach their destination, but usually banes catch up fast enough, so just a few marines would turn around earlier and start too shoot. The rest would go further back to continue the patrol. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 25 2014 05:34 yaeger wrote: Hi guys, im having a really hard time nowadays where zerg go MASS bane ling midgame with 20+ muta for support, if i spread to thin muta pick my mines and marines of, if i clump, well.. everything gets blown up! =/ And these new maps are so bad for us vs Zerg.. cus now there are so much ground they can surround the terran army on.. im (midmaster) terran seeking TL help <3 Need more context if you're going to necro a thread. A.) What type of engagement are you talking about? While on the attack or on the defense? B.) What timing are you trying to hit (If you're attacking) or what timing are they trying to hit (if you're defending) | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
On April 25 2014 05:34 yaeger wrote: Hi guys, im having a really hard time nowadays where zerg go MASS bane ling midgame with 20+ muta for support, if i spread to thin muta pick my mines and marines of, if i clump, well.. everything gets blown up! =/ And these new maps are so bad for us vs Zerg.. cus now there are so much ground they can surround the terran army on.. im (midmaster) terran seeking TL help <3 keep to the basics: - Don't engage on creep - Have widow mines - Try not to engage in the open, try making it around a corner or something - Practice the marine split challenge - Marauders can help vs banelings and you are + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140317044617/diablo/images/b/bf/Necromancer-melee.jpg) | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On April 25 2014 05:34 yaeger wrote: Hi guys, im having a really hard time nowadays where zerg go MASS bane ling midgame with 20+ muta for support, if i spread to thin muta pick my mines and marines of, if i clump, well.. everything gets blown up! =/ And these new maps are so bad for us vs Zerg.. cus now there are so much ground they can surround the terran army on.. im (midmaster) terran seeking TL help <3 Don't really be aggressive in the midgame unless you got very much ahead in the early game. Right now zerg in a normal game can simply outproduce terran. So I suggest you play somewhat defensively and get 1-2 Thor out and do like a 2/2 or 3/3 timing. | ||
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Thin
United States4 Posts
box click box click is basically the best way. There are maps and stuff to practice this. | ||
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yaeger
Norway98 Posts
On April 25 2014 08:18 Thieving Magpie wrote: Need more context if you're going to necro a thread. A.) What type of engagement are you talking about? While on the attack or on the defense? B.) What timing are you trying to hit (If you're attacking) or what timing are they trying to hit (if you're defending) A & B. Im talking about my rally push towards the zergs 3 or 4th, hitting the 2/2 timing. by then I would most likely have killed some lings and kept the creep back abit( but on most new maps the latter is v difficult) I try to pre-spread as best as i can but whenever Im coming on the creep he swarms me with mass ling-bling and using his muta to pick off my stray mines that I have tried to position behind my marines. My (presplitted marines I then select and attackmove towards his army ( often that means they clump back together again) should i just stim the forward ones and keep them under controll?( I dont have 300 apm, only meager 150-170) And when he gets ultra it even gets harder (ofc) should i keep my army in big balls? or presplit and let the ultra have their way with em ? | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
What he does seems pretty simple, he tries to engage in not too open terrain with his army not too spread out, stim, control clics the marines, pulls them back and makes an arc with them. This forces the banes either to explode on thors/hellbats, or to take hellbat's damage while chasing the rines. He executed that so well in the few TvZ I watched it was pretty mind boggling. It's not a magical solution to winning TvZ of course, but I used to try to pre split more and have my army spread over a large area, when actually what he does it better (you can pre split a bit, but if you spread too much you lose lots of dps for basically no gain in the end) | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
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lantz
United States762 Posts
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