|
I think we've all played games where we are attacked in the first few minutes by the other player's workers. Usually this attack comes at the very beginning with the player's first 6 workers. By the time they get to your base, you have, depending on the map, sometimes almost double their workers. Because of your numbers advantage, holding off this kind of rush is not too hard to do.
However, I was recently rushed by a player who double extractor tricked and by the time her got to my base, I only had a few extra probes.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/98323-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, and if so, how did you hold it off? Obviously, if you hold it off, you win. Obviously, it takes a good amount of micro to handle a situation (maybe that's the answer: just have better micro). But I'm not sure what I should have done too drastically different. Please enlighten me.
Album
|
I watched Cellawerra do it in 2's once and rofl'd. Seems to be awesome ^_^
|
On November 01 2010 05:19 Vlare wrote:
I watched Cellawerra do it in 2's once and rofl'd. Seems to be awesome ^_^
Yeah, like, it seems to be pretty powerful unless there is just perfect micro. ^^
|
By the time they reach your base, you should have enough probes to handle it easily, if not chrono boost helps, and remember that probes regain shield ridiculously fast when not in battle.
|
On November 01 2010 05:20 Sonic114 wrote:
By the time they reach your base, you should have enough probes to handle it easily, if not chrono boost helps, and remember that probes regain shield ridiculously fast when not in battle.
I don't know about "easily." Yeah, you're going to have a probe advantage, but only of about 3ish. Because of this, if you don't engage at just the right moment and make sure all your probes are able to attack at the same time, that advantage doesn't add up to much.
|
On November 01 2010 05:20 Sonic114 wrote:
By the time they reach your base, you should have enough probes to handle it easily, if not chrono boost helps, and remember that probes regain shield ridiculously fast when not in battle.
SCV's can also repair each other to fend off attacks like this.
I also saw CellaWerra do the 12 drone rush, and it was pretty hilarious, especially because he was singing a little song.
Probably not quite as strong as the 6pool 6 ling + drone rush that happened to nada though
|
Considering you scouted it right when the drones left the base just wall off. Drones do not do nearly enough damage to get through it in time.
|
just run away whenever a probe gets low and rely on shield regen, you should win np, but a bit slowly
|
probe micro
ez
have ur hp bars on
then micro it back when it has 15 hp left by clicking on a mineral field then send it back to battle
|
I watched the replay -- you had more probes, but you didn't engage all at once. You had them split into three groups, one with group mining, and at first only one group of your probes was fighting his.
When he has all his workers grouped together like that, you need to fight with all your workers at once as well. Don't leave 1/3 of them mining while their buddies die. Also, make sure to engage where you can get a concave, since you have superior numbers.
|
if you can't micro enough to send hurt probes back, just go into the open and fight, you have extra probes, and can 1aclick him to death (not to mention you can reinfoce, albeit slowly)
|
Good micro > drone rush. Sometimes not that easy but I hate such strategys. Has nothing to do with skill.
|
I could see it being tough for terran as you could never get your rax out.
But as toss you have chronoboost and regenerating shields.
Use the mineral patch to stack as well.
|
Wouldnt attack move work if you have 3 more probes than him?
|
you gotta be trolling bro.
simply fight. thanks to numbers advantage the "good micro" pressure is on his side.
if you are not confident enough to fight 14 vs 11 workers, grab your workers and run away while you continue producing workers. once you have a 16:11 numbers advantage it should be easy.
no, dont worry, he cannot kill your main building that quickly.
|
Isn't the issue that drones regen hp between hits making them survive an extra hit?
This could be turned into reverse by retreating and letting probes regen shields though, it's not like you are getting harmed by not mining and drones will take forever to kill nexus.
|
Anyone who knows what the word micro means should be able to win the worker fight. But if you are really really afraid, just run around while you chrono your first zealot. One zealot will shut it down pretty easily. If the drones go to attack the pylon, they will be in a terrible position and you should attack them immediately. If they don't pull away, you win. If they are good they will pull away, so you should just move back and forth both stalling and trying to get a good position.
|
On November 01 2010 06:18 Enervate wrote:
Anyone who knows what the word micro means should be able to win the worker fight. But if you are really really afraid, just run around while you chrono your first zealot. One zealot will shut it down pretty easily. If the drones go to attack the pylon, they will be in a terrible position and you should attack them immediately. If they don't pull away, you win. If they are good they will pull away, so you should just move back and forth both stalling and trying to get a good position.
If you watch the replay you will see that no gateway actually got put down.
|
I think the main thing is I was taken aback because I'd never been rushed that way.
@KingDime, you're right, walling in, would have been a great decision.
@ganjazerg, no I'm not "trolling bro" I'm just trying to get better at this game. You're right, just running around until I get more probes would have helped too.
Thanks for all your comments and advice. Next time, I'll know what to do.
|
i JUST got hit with this and I remember seeing you replay came back here to see if there was anyway around it
I didnt even have enough to wall off, I sent my scout out ASAP cause 6 pool happens to me 9/10 on this map, and I saw that he sent ALL his workers out and I couldnt even get a wall off in time 
Pretty lame if you ask me
|
Fake leaving your base as if you're going to rush his. When he surrounds your nexus, then attack him. You'll have all of your probes in force while he's surrounding your nexus. You will have the advantage 100% of the time in that scenario.
|
lol interesting never heard of this! yeah pulling workers away til you can get more probes or better position seems to be the best way, like the others have already said
thanks for sharing though interesting strategy xD
|
Only-worker rush has been absolutely terrible since SCV had health reduced. I don't see how anyone could possibly discuss this in strategy section unless they were below platinum., and in that case they just need to learn better micro.
And the game I saw Cella worker rush he got completely dominated due to plain old mediocre common-sense micro/defense.
|
Isn't 12 drone really late? (ie, your opponent will have their first tier 1 unit half way completed)
Anyways, I believe stalling by running away your workers should win you game outright. A-moving your workers will get you into a >60% win rate, depending on surround and map distance. Either way, you will outnumber the worker count of the rusher.
|
On November 06 2010 08:43 febreze wrote:
Isn't 12 drone really late? (ie, your opponent will have their first tier 1 unit half way completed)
Anyways, I believe stalling by running away your workers should win you game outright. A-moving your workers will get you into a >60% win rate, depending on surround and map distance. Either way, you will outnumber the worker count of the rusher.
12 drone you use double extractor trick to get 2 extra drones making your supply 12/10
|
all you need to do is delay and keep mining with 1-2 workers. Once he realizes he can't stop you from mining, the game is over. Any time your opponent does some kind of all-in, the proper response is to delay him as long as possible from engaging you, thereby increasing your own numbers and odds to succeed.
edit: I don't actually agree with this logic anymore. "all you need to do" actually requires an incredible APM, and much higher than the zerg opponent's.
|
I thought I'd bump this thread as opposed to creating my own, we've seen this strat in TvZ twice now in competative play, and have a 100% win record vs Strelok and Painuser! Which sort of rules it out as being an easily beaten bronze league strat.
Strelok panicked a bit admittedly, but painuser did exactly what I would have done: pulled his workers and a-moved, assuming that i'd have more scvs than he has drones, and his SCV line got absolutely destroyed, it wasn't even close.
Is the absolute best way to win this REALLY by running around with your workers? What about day9's suggestion of loading up and floating off to the island? (im assuming this strat would really only work on Steppes).
Has anyone got a replay of holding it off convincingly? I don't have a practice partner so I'd love to be able to get the strat down before heading out onto the ladder!
|
I can't get a replay right now because this place doesn't have a computer good enough for SC2, but you need to 1. bring your scouting SCV back asap 2. bring your SCV building the barracks back asap. After that just cancel your barracks and keep building SCVs while microing all of your workers. The canceled barracks will give you enough for like 2-3 more workers and you already have the advantage, so you should just engage and always pull back the 5 hp SCVs and micro well. a-moving never works, I've won 12 vs 12 workers when the opponent has a-moved so that I've had 11 workers left afterwards. You need to micro super well, but you should have the advantage so it shouldn't be too difficult to win if you do it properly.
If you scout it fast enough, you can wall off with 3 supply depots asap and then repair them while building your barracks, that's a 100% autowin if you manage to pull it off.
(I'm currently like 34-2 on Steppes with 12 drone rush, against all sorts of opponents[only beat by 2400+ Diamonds])
|
Engage in spots where not all the drones can hit the scv's and use the scv's auto repair function.
e.g. in between mineral patches and the command centre.
|
This will not work against Terran due to auto repair but against Protoss and Zerg it's Golden
|
Actually, it only works against Terran. Zerg gets workers too fast, just like Protoss with Chrono Boost.
|
Can we get a replay up in this thread? If it's as easy to stop as everyone claims, it's baffling that I can't find a single replay of someone defending this rush anywhere on the internet =/
|
guess no one thought defending it was replay worthy
wonder why
|
Dunno I got rushed by 6 lings + workers lately while I 14 hatched 14 pooled(I believe). If you guys want that rep I could try finding it.
|
The only way to beat this without absolutely insane micro is to put all but a few probes/scvs on the ramp while you complete a wall behind it. This forces equal numbers engagement of 4v4.
And who is going to think to do this at first?
12 drone rush on a map like steppes is pretty imba, and even though people say "oh, just wall off" a properly timed rush is going to leave you with a half-completed barracks or 30% gateway, and absolutely no money for a wall off.
Try a stream of custom games on steppes and 12 drone rush. It's pretty amazing how difficult it is to defend, and how easy it is to a-move win.
I like reading responses in this thread like "oh this is easy to deal with by only probe micro for ez win." I'd like to see your replays because I call BS.
If you're stopping a 12-drone rush with only probe/scv micro, I'm highly impressed.
edit: I noticed this thread has my response in the 3rd post or so echoing exactly what I'm criticizing. Once I actually tried this I understood how devastating it really is. It's just too fast and takes way more APM to counter than to execute.
|
On December 20 2010 00:12 Igaryu85 wrote:
Dunno I got rushed by 6 lings + workers lately while I 14 hatched 14 pooled(I believe). If you guys want that rep I could try finding it.
I don't think that counts as 6 pool would already slaughter a 14 hatch even without drones supporting it.
|
Use mineral walking/Dont let them get a surround Every time you see one of your workers get to orange health select it and click some minerals in your base tat should keep them alive till the attackers are dead. OR if your terran just lift off and go to a different expo
|
People say lift off as terran and fly to a walled off section (there is no island) but they are forgetting 2 things.
1) command centers fly really slow
2) you'll only be able to take 5 workers
you may be able to ferry workers over the rocks using your CC as a medivac but the CC is really slow.
I dont see what is stopping zerg from going back to his base and starting to mine for 2 game minutes while you float over to the island.
Seems to me floating over to the rocky area is theory craft.
in my theory craft adopting the quick walloff at the bottom of the ramp as your default build vs zerg is the best value. 1 vulnerable supply depot at the expense of not losing to 12 drones or 6/7/8 pools. Keep in mind it might not be possible to wall off with rax/sd in 1.2.
To those saying the rax wont be finished by the time the drones reach your base. This is true but you can spam right click as well as halt to keep your worker on the safe side. whilst having 3 or 4 scvs repairing the supply depot.
|
United States323 Posts
Ok im gonna make a list for you to follow
1- cancel your gateway
2- engage the army but then back off so they cant freely attack the pylon
3- build probes until 14-16
4- have half your workers hotkeyed to 2 and the other to 3
5- surround and destroy the drones
6- start mining again until you can start your gateway
7- chrono boost a zealot
8- and destroy the zerg
9- if hes knows what he is doing he will have a good count of drones to fight off your zealot but he wont be able to do it 2-4 times 
|
Dominican Republic97 Posts
as a terran myself i always wall.. 12 rax 12 scout if i see drones coming put down the second suply.. i u get that wall u win. in stepes is very common. so thats my advices scout more early if u fear.
|
At which skill-level does this happen usually? I played over 400 games on the 1v1 ladder, from gold up to diamond and this happened exactly once when I was in platinum (TvZ). How often does this happen on average to other players? Am I just lucky?
|
On December 20 2010 03:41 heyyouyesyou wrote:Ok im gonna make a list for you to follow 1- cancel your gateway 2- engage the army but then back off so they cant freely attack the pylon 3- build probes until 14-16 4- have half your workers hotkeyed to 2 and the other to 3 5- surround and destroy the drones6- start mining again until you can start your gateway 7- chrono boost a zealot 8- and destroy the zerg 9- if hes knows what he is doing he will have a good count of drones to fight off your zealot but he wont be able to do it 2-4 times
that's my favorite step. you assume that you can mine and not get surrounded yourself, but then you can surround his drones no problem.
I'd like you to show me a replay of this working. Anyone who 12 drone rushes isn't going for the pylon that isn't powering anything while you mine freely. He's going to a move and kill your probes while he has a +1 advantage.
You also seem to think he's going to have them all on 1 hotkey when he only has 12 units in the game that are all on the same screen.
|
just saw this in qxc v. slush in the eg masters.
first impression was ROFL.
|
To add to the people who say if you can micro you can kill them, Don't focus fire. Its how people lose a 11+worker vs 6 worker rush.
Sometimes Amove is just better P:
|
On December 20 2010 07:16 Dementophobia wrote:
At which skill-level does this happen usually? I played over 400 games on the 1v1 ladder, from gold up to diamond and this happened exactly once when I was in platinum (TvZ). How often does this happen on average to other players? Am I just lucky?
This happens at the higher levels mostly I think. Lately its been showing up in pro level tourneys which is why it is getting a lot of discussion now (slush did it a few times in eg masters and went 2-1 I think, someone won with it in the semis of the TL open, there's probably a few other examples, i think catz does this maybe).
|
From my experiences, microing workers is counter productive due to their pathing. Whenever I get worker rushed, I select all my probes, spam click on a mineral patch to bring them all together, and then attack move. It's stack vs stack, whichever stack is larger wins.
|
|
|
Its more of a vT issue. The best counter I know of is to just wall the bottom of the ramp.
|
I just don't see how a protoss can ever lose to a worker rush, with chronoboost and all, you just queue up as many probes as you have workers, cancel any building you are building, circle around your nexus until you have all workers, and attack, then periodically pull back and let op shield regen work its wonders and engage again.
|
^^Lol at Idra apologising.
|
there is a way to counter it, but i'll be like yang from psych and won't tell u the answer, i will simply guide you to it through clues:
clue number one: think of maka rax
|
There is no way to "counter" this and you cannot reasonably get a barracks out before the drones arrive.
The only way to beat a drone rush on steppes TvZ is to get a better concave and repair SCVs inside your CC as discovered by QXC on his stream an hour ago.
|
u cant wall off. How the hell can you wall off when you only have 1 pylon/supply depot, and a BUILDING attack structure?
Honestly, just move your workers a little out into the open, and a-move.
Faced this about a million times. Everytime, I just say "thanks for the win", at which my probes just own his workers, and I get a free win.
I mean if you actually faced someone who bothers microing, it could be a problem, if you don't know how. But I mean in bronze and silver which is where this happens a million times, they don't really bother. If it's a large map, just run around while your first basic unit (rine, ling, lot) comes out, and u insta-win.
----
EDIT: Right in pro matches...
LOL.
Well I mean it's mainly just for the lulz. In every replay I've seen, the one getting rofl pwned always does something stupid to lose like 4 scvs..
|
I just played 7 games of steppes. 5 ZvT and 2 ZvP and my initial impression is that this build is pretty fair. The better player usually wins the micro battle and it leads into some fun games. I played a 35 minute macro game off one when the worker count stabilized at Z~8 T~10.
The build is really cool because you end up with about 100 minerals left over. After you lose 3 drones you can start rebuilding your economy and have the option to retreat back to your base to play a standard game. What surprised me was that even if you are behind on econ you can be ahead in other ways:
1) If you can snipe their depot + rax it doesn't matter if you're behind on worker count because their barracks is going to be very delayed and you can try for an early pool to punish the late rax.
2)If you cause them to rebuild without a wall-off you can punish that pretty well with an early pool as well
3)Some players will overreact to the aggression and if they see lings can build bunkers, extra rax they don't need.
In general I think its a good idea to follow up with a fast pool if you're behind on workers, or to plant a FE if you're ahead in workers. Consider sniping their rax and depo and then just harassing without commiting while you make an overlord/more drones. If they don't have a depot they can't make any more units
|
I was wondering what the correct thing for Zerg to do is if Terran loads SCVs on Steppes and floats behind the rocks while running the rest of their SCVs away from the drones around the map.
|
This is why maps with <30 second rush distances suck >.>
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
