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On October 29 2010 21:23 deth wrote:
Mech does not work vs competent protosses now that Tanks have been nerfed. P can double expand vs mech, sacrifice one of them and still be yards ahead.
There's a reason why mech is almost non-existant at top level. It is weak.
Goody is 6th on the latest Blizzard EU Top 200 and so far without loss in ESL EPS which has Socke, Hasuobs, and had Naniwa. What does qualify top level in your opinion then?
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He needs to sustain his results for longer than a few games for his style to be deemed valid. It's extremely weird and no doubt players aren't sure how to deal with it, but that doesn't make it viable.
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On October 29 2010 16:08 Shlowpoke wrote:
Why don't people use this style?
Because MMM is MUCH easier to do successfully and a lot of players aren't at the level of comfort to openly swap up the play they're currently doing.
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Terran players please just go MMM.
I don't want those blueflame hellions in my base.. I wake up at night and hear my probes roasting to death
No but really, I think it's viable and probably more fun too. I'm just a 1400 diamond protoss but yeah I've lost quite a few games against mech.
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You can still do hellion drops while MMMin' and as a few pprl have said, nerfs to tanks have really hurt the option of mech play against protoss. Feels like they dont do nearly enough dmg for all of that gas and 3 supply
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I have been trying to go mech vs Protoss in custom games, but there is just no way it's viable with pure mech. I keep losing to gold Protoss (I am 1500-1300 diamond) because they make like 3 Immortals and just walk right up to my tanks.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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@ plexa yep i commented on it on the first page,
anyway i don't think my build is bad. it's just if you don't practise against such opponents like socke you get stomped (no offense to my practise partners they are good obv but they have little experience against mech) 
in theory, i have counter against every toss unit (hellion, tank, ghost, viking), problem is that i haven't really found a good timing pushes yet (besides bw-esque when toss's 3rd is finishing and as i said on the first page i fucked up my build in the first game and wasnt able to punish him for it). protoss warping in units everywhere is a huge pain but it doesnt really stop you from killing all his probes. the problem i have is you can't really kill his nexuses 
if you ask me i'd open blue flame hellions every time if i knew i wouldn't die to any 4warpgate rushes
edit: sry a bit offtopic from me
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we terrans all had to change our style because of the tank nerf/nerv.
however this topic tries to show a way out of the valley of sorrow.
so why (FFS) do you comment on the underpowered mech units here?
this only relates to his (goodies) play in the sense, that he coped with it.
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phoenix is good against this too. mainly because it can shut down the blue flame helion drops
it doesn't matter that his vikings can deal with your phoenixes in the actual fights as long as they can pick up the tanks long enough to get your chargelots/immortals to them.
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but i dont understand why people will insist on going pure mech against heavy VRs. how about getting marines and a bit of upgrades and turrets...certainly cheaper gas wise than VRs. in essence you're still going mech, just marines for a mineral dump.
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On October 29 2010 22:57 shadymmj wrote:
but i dont understand why people will insist on going pure mech against heavy VRs. how about getting marines and a bit of upgrades and turrets...certainly cheaper gas wise than VRs. in essence you're still going mech, just marines for a mineral dump.
it's quite difficult to switch to barax units when you have factories and starports, plus at that stage of the game protoss usually has both collosus and HT techs up.
i say give us back Lockdown :D
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On October 29 2010 20:51 Plexa wrote:Mech play is like goon/reaver was to normal PvZ in SC1  it's strong when executed right but there are many pitfalls along the way - and if your main attack fails then the game is pretty much over. Protoss rebuilds way faster and will have a better economy so even if you kill each others armies you will still end up behind. As a protoss, the easiest counter to mech is to build one robo for every factory and make immortal/colossus as you can (usually I go immortal from first robo, colo from second, immo from third etc). Robotics units completely roflstomp terran mech harder than anything. Just complement that with stalkers and you'll be fine
Pretty much this, except I'd say to get void rays after scouting more than 1 factory, especially if they have tech labs.
I actually think I have a replay of me just oblitering a Mech T build, I'll edit if I find it.
But I will say that if any P players every come across a mech(factory) build to just simply grab VR's asap.
Edit: Did find the replay but it doesn't show anything except Void rays melting tanks/thors/hellions with added in marines/vikings.
Aside from an extremely aggressive push on a map like steppes I would say this isn't really that viable, and that marauders for support would be infinitely better.
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the reason people dont do this is because it requires alot of skill and attention (positioning is everything).
mmm on the other hand is relatively simple and easy to execute (until storm kicks in ofc)
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I really hope that the immortal will get a nerf. You can't go thors or tanks because the immortal counter them so hard. It's just ridicilous...
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Immortals absolutely shut down mech play. Phoenixes are also good against tanks. Terran mech has relatively week anti-air unlike in bw where they had goliaths. Investing in vikings would be wasteful because they have limited usage as they don't shoot ground.
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i pretty much think ghosts are must against protoss to shut down immortals, hts and possible phoenixes
i think people think too much about a p unit > a t unit which is wrong, terran have counter to everything P has, the real problem is it's hard to take out expoes like tank drops in sc1, and that the timings are not clear yet
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On October 29 2010 20:51 Plexa wrote:As a protoss, the easiest counter to mech is to build one robo for every factory and make immortal/colossus as you can (usually I go immortal from first robo, colo from second, immo from third etc). Robotics units completely roflstomp terran mech harder than anything. Just complement that with stalkers and you'll be fine
Not this....
neanS, PredY have it right.
There's no way to effectively counter the combo of Voidrays, chargelot/blink stalker, and mass expo with mech
If you go robo units on a mecher... we will thank you for the win.
Mechers will have ghosts. We could care less about immortals. It's VR <> Blink stalker/chargelot switches that really mess us up. One attacks our lack of a proper counter. The other really punishes our mobility issue. Combined by the fact that they take extra bases, the earlier we do our push, the less the chance of the success, but the less allin it is. The later we do our push, the greater the chance of success but there will be no followup and more of a chance of a backstab.
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I always meched vs protoss all the way up until the last tank nerf now i can only seem to fit in a dash of tanks stubbornly becasue they are and always have been since when i first played sc1 my favorite unit. I'd always lose to sudden tech switches to void rays and then mass warp-ins after.
problem with mech against protoss in sc2 is tanks cost more gas and supply and they dont have cover from spider mines. even if their were spider mines chargelots would be a huge pain in the butt more so than speedlots from BW.
also mech in BW did'nt really need mobility becasue vultures with spider mines helped them still have a presence all over the map forcing dragoons to only be mobile with observers.
in sc2 going full mech you can't really have any sort of presence anywhere and protoss is free to do whatever they want.
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Is there a rule that says "Terran are only allowed to build out of one type of production building"? I must have missed that one.
Just massing tanks means a lot of dead tanks... because tanks suck at "tanking". I have found it very effective to have a maurader/marine core (ratio based on void ray to stalker ratio) with a handful of tanks in support to deal large splash damage to zealots and stalkers. Add in a few hellions and some medivacs and you have great harrass with different kinds of drops (hellion, bio, bio+tank) that each require a different response. Throw in a ghost or two for EMP (no cloak needed) and a few vikings for colossus hunting.
I do have to say, the "lots of turrets about the map" a lot. I will have to try it... it messes with observers, which as we saw in the recent Loner vs Genius games give toss a huge advantage if not countered. Beyond that, it's always nice to have a turret to drop back to, for help with a colossus... turrets do crazy dmg on those.
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EPT
