EPT[D] ZvZ 16 Hatch 15 Pool - Page 6
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China13814 Posts
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Aubergine
United States40 Posts
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
if he 6 pools defend with drones until your lings come out and prevent any spine crawlers from going down early. Remember to throw down 2-3 spines a soon as your spawning pool finishes. if he does get it up just let it hit your hatch until you can get enough lings and spines to kill it. if he 10 pools 13 pool beats it if he 13-14 pools hatch first beats it just let the lings beat on your exp hatch until you get enough lings | ||
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mrhobbers
109 Posts
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
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Aubergine
United States40 Posts
On October 27 2010 22:06 mrhobbers wrote: I checked out sc2rep, they didn't have these Cella vs ret games. Were they replays or just streams? I'm yet to win trying the 14-15 hatch, as others have said, I just don't have enough to defend the 1 base roach push. Sorry, should've clarified, it was a live stream. | ||
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Aubergine
United States40 Posts
On October 27 2010 22:16 imperator-xy wrote: what do zergs with hatch first do if i just build a spine crawler next to their hatch while its building and go ling all-in then? i would do a normal 14 pool Where will you build the spine crawler? There's no creep next to a building Hatch unless you hatch-cancel-then build a spine crawler. I always have a overlord over my building hatch in case of such things (like cannons and bunkers too). | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
On October 27 2010 22:23 Aubergine wrote: Where will you build the spine crawler? There's no creep next to a building Hatch unless you hatch-cancel-then build a spine crawler. I always have a overlord over my building hatch in case of such things (like cannons and bunkers too). yes, you have to hatch-cancel and then build it. okay, i guess that will become less effective from day to day as you will always get an overlord to your expansion if you loose against this one time. but right now my opponents dont do anything against it nearly all the time. this is still a good way to cancel an expansion i think | ||
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Aubergine
United States40 Posts
On October 27 2010 23:05 imperator-xy wrote: yes, you have to hatch-cancel and then build it. okay, i guess that will become less effective from day to day as you will always get an overlord to your expansion if you loose against this one time. but right now my opponents dont do anything against it nearly all the time. this is still a good way to cancel an expansion i think I am by no means an experienced player, but unless they back up their crawler with zerglings, I don't think bringing 4-5 drones to attack the building crawler should be a big issue. Lately, I've been opening pretty much 14 pool 15 hatch for every match up and it's been working pretty well (again, my opponents also haven't been the best either). With this build, I scout on 12 against P and T and 8 against Z. This way, if I needed to, I could always drop an earlier pool and bring out some zerglings to help against early aggression/cheese. | ||
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Mczeppo
Germany319 Posts
My second question is, do you put the spine crawlers behind your ramp (which is protected by one queen and some lings?) or do you put it at each gas geyser to protect your second hatch. If you put them behind the ramp you'd have to keep all drones in your main base; if you put them at your natural you're maybe allowed to also mine from that second base. How do you do it i didn't get the build 100 % Thanks | ||
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Thor1104
16 Posts
2017 level diamond zerg here. Mass speedling against roaches is strong, but the roaches can win. +1 attack of roaches causes speedlings to be killed in two shots. putting two or three roaches at the top of your ramp with a perfect seal completely prevents any speedlings from entering your base and harassing until you have a decent roach force. If he goes mass speedling and you move out with a clump of 12-15 roaches (with +1 attack), his lings will melt to your roaches and you will often steamroll him before he reaches mutas. By leaving your next three roaches on your ramp, you can prevent a backstab. Obviously the roach timing push can be destroyed if you move out too soon or too late, but it's a completely viable strategy at high level zerg play. | ||
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Aubergine
United States40 Posts
On October 27 2010 23:36 Mczeppo wrote: I got the point in doing the early hatch but there is one thing i'm still wondering about. Do you block the ramp with *one* Queen and a couple of zerglings. I mean without zerglings you need 2 queens usually. My second question is, do you put the spine crawlers behind your ramp (which is protected by one queen and some lings?) or do you put it at each gas geyser to protect your second hatch. If you put them behind the ramp you'd have to keep all drones in your main base; if you put them at your natural you're maybe allowed to also mine from that second base. How do you do it i didn't get the build 100 % Thanks I'd also like to hear about this. I usually stick my spine crawlers near the choke into my expansion (if one exists such as in LT). This often acts as a deterent and I can often snipe some banelings if they try to run in. Even for open naturals, I try to put my crawlers "in front" of the hatch (if that makes sense). | ||
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ImGonnaRideYou
53 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On October 28 2010 00:18 ImGonnaRideYou wrote: I'll keep this hatch first build in mind and practice it in customs/friends to see how it feels. I don't see it working vs opponents bnet pits me against (900pt plat). I can't risk it because one bad loss and I may lose momentum and go on a losing streak the whole night. I have yet to come across anyone going >13pool or using "pool chicken" mentality on me. You just bring the biggest gun you have to the fight and hope the other guy's gun is smaller. I feel you, yet i think it is the greatest training you can get on ladder, you try to go greedy, and still fend of early agression, im not saying to hatch vs 6pool but to do economical opening vs normal openings. Im 1300-1500 diamond (tbh, i still feel that my mechanics are pitful). 90% of opponents(all races) always try to prevent me from geting my FE, it is so frustrating yet it is a great learning experience. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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Mczeppo
Germany319 Posts
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On October 25 2010 06:58 shmoo wrote: It really comes down to where you are on the ladder and who you are playing. Anything later than a 13 pool has a really hard time with a 6 or 7 pool. When you play against high level opponents, the odds of cheese diminishes greatly so you see these greedy macro oriented openings more often. Its very hard to stop a good timing push in zvz when you fe and the opponent 1 bases. True of all mirror matchups. 1 base beats blind FE every time with a good timing push. | ||
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Kyobi
United States38 Posts
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BnK
United States538 Posts
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dejavue
Germany47 Posts
After that, extractor + pool (almost at the same time) asap. Once again, with an overlord in between there and I think 2 drones more, you can still build 2 queens asap and once you have 100 mins again, you will be able to tech ling speed immediately. I use it (granted, I am only gold level, but recently I have played some high platinums and some mid ranked diamonds - thinking I am about to be promoted) almost all the time and it seems to just "flow" very easily. It's like hold on hold on hold on, STEAMROLL! - because if your opponent doesn't do anything about it, you can just throw stuff at them all the time while constantly expanding. Only thing besides timing pushes to stop this is pylon blocking the ramp, but even bunkers can be dealt with rather easily (since the latest buff to Zerg buildings anyway). | ||
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