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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On December 21 2010 02:26 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 00:43 ThaneKrios wrote:
If I suddenly see Collosi mixed in a toss army when I'm going roach/hydra, am I dead? If you are far away from corruptors or ultralisks the general answer is: yes. But it always depends on how far ahead you were before, how you engage, how well he places his forcefields etc.
K thanks man, I seem to really lose alot against those kind of attacks.. Working on it!
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On December 21 2010 02:12 pantaray wrote:
Please help with my question.
I have a huge problem facing protoss-players which go stargate. I am playing silver/gold-protossplayers and 70% of them open with phoenix/voidrays. some of them are slow but some of them are realy quik and suprising. my overlord-scout at 4:45 often gives me no time to react properly, usually I cannot get more than 2 queens out until the first stargate-units start to push.
2 queens are problematicly, because when i inject larva one of them gets lifted/voidrayed and if the other queen is low on energy both queens will get lost soon. spore-crawler (2-4 possible after scouting) is also difficult, because you cannot have them everywhere and the toss finds a spot where he is able to hit a building without gettin hurt. if i replace the spores, he just focusfires it. after that defence-fail the voidray is charged up and nothing can stop it.
do you know a good opener against toss to deal with it pretty good? should I get 3 queens every match against toss? I start to raging, its not fun anymore. because I lose to lowlevel-players which take zero skill to pull a voidrush but i need fast and precise micro to counter it.
If you feel that you are being voidray cheesed all the time why not just get a fast lair and some hydras?
I ussually found air cheese to be relatively easy to counter if you open with 14 hatch/14 pool and if you suspect air coming your way just keep building queens until you got real AA.
But another way of kind of stopping the toss of killing you with air is putting pressure on him.
Dunno if this helps but I hope so;)
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Is there a zerg build where you skip gas entirely and just build lings and queens?
possibly using the money spent on drones for gas instead on a quick third and queens.
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On December 21 2010 06:20 Fanciful wrote:
Is there a zerg build where you skip gas entirely and just build lings and queens?
possibly using the money spent on drones for gas instead on a quick third and queens.
No. Slow lings are just absolutely terrible.
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Hi
I've recently been promoted to gold and I think I may be ready for another promotion soon. I'm having problems with other Zergs, I'm not really sure what I should do.
At the moment I go for fast bling/sling and try to harass as much as I can and get myself to mutas. The build seems so fragile compared to my builds vs other races. Is this a viable build or is there something else I should be trying? Also do I need bling speed before I harass the worker line with them or do they work okay without?
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I havn't played in two weeks, and before then, my zvz was a mu that i looked very forward to. I did a 13 gas 13 pool baneling play into mutas. But now, I'm on like a ten game zvz losing streak and I can't seem to win a zvz if my life depended on it. can someone please give me some good build orders and tips for this matchup?
I'm a 1800 diamond zerg, but with 500 bonus points now because i've played twice in the past 2 months. I lost like a hundred points the last time i played though, because the game just changed so much and my builds weren't up to par
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On December 21 2010 02:54 pantaray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 02:24 DarKFoRcE wrote:On December 21 2010 02:12 pantaray wrote:
Please help with my question.
I have a huge problem facing protoss-players which go stargate. I am playing silver/gold-protossplayers and 70% of them open with phoenix/voidrays. some of them are slow but some of them are realy quik and suprising. my overlord-scout at 4:45 often gives me no time to react properly, usually I cannot get more than 2 queens out until the first stargate-units start to push.
2 queens are problematicly, because when i inject larva one of them gets lifted/voidrayed and if the other queen is low on energy both queens will get lost soon. spore-crawler (2-4 possible after scouting) is also difficult, because you cannot have them everywhere and the toss finds a spot where he is able to hit a building without gettin hurt. if i replace the spores, he just focusfires it. after that defence-fail the voidray is charged up and nothing can stop it.
do you know a good opener against toss to deal with it pretty good? should I get 3 queens every match against toss? I start to raging, its not fun anymore. because I lose to lowlevel-players which take zero skill to pull a voidrush but i need fast and precise micro to counter it. I think there are enough suggestions in this thread as how to open vs protoss. But then again, in silver/gold, everything can be solved by better macro and generally getting things done faster. I honestly think that this is an urban legend widely spread around sc2. It is a possibly correct answer in 75% of the cases but its not as simply as that in my deepest opinion. I play together with diamond-players from time to time and what seperates them are from me are opening-bo/scouting-knowledge, micro details, gameplan, timing and a more stable mindset.
Try watching Day[9] # 208, it discusses some things similar with what DarKFoRcE (macro) and you (mindset, etc.) have been saying and has helped me a lot with improving my game. Mr. Bitter I think, also has some links to live-coaching vods a few pages back that are about ZvP. I'm in plat right now (though my play I think is more goldish) and in general, I do believe better macro is usually the key in getting promoted (or at least, in my case it was), the other details like scouting and timing you learn with more experience.
In response to your original question, you can try this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170096 worked for me after I finally worked out some of my macro problems (still have a lot to work on though). I don't want to give any specific advice since I'm not that good but hopefully you'll see something that'll help you. I've had problems with early stargate pressure too until recently before I figured some things out after watching/reading the vods and links I told you about above. Then again, if you're one of those who don't believe that non-2k+ diamonds have anything useful to contribute, feel free to ignore this post 
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Hey, 2.6k diamond player here, and I have also a few questions/situations because I'm unable to find the best answer to these.
First situation: how to counter a pylon wall with cannons, if afterwards the cannons behind the pylons are being powered by new pylons? A bit like here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=178517 but then without losing those extra cannons.
Normally I try to baneling bust out of it, try to kill the first pylons with 5 banelings and then just bust out with some zerglings and kill those cannons. But if those cannons are still powered it's not possible to just break that contain. In this situation the protoss doesn't expand, and invests all resources in units, cannons and perhaps some tech, immortals/collosus depending on what i'm doing.
Second situation: Army composition problem
What's the best zerg counter to a stargate opening, and afterwards have a usual stalker/collosus ball, but reinforced with some void rays/pheonix?
The normal Roach/hydra/corruptor ball just doesn't cut it anymore. I know that since he has void rays and perhaps some pheonix he has less collosus, due to gas block, but still enough to rip through the Zerg ground army. So, you have an army of 3 collosus, 3-4 void rays, perhaps 2-3 leftover pheonix, and for the rest just stalkers and zealots and perhaps one sentry for guardian shield.
So what's the best zerg answer to this? Roach/hydra get utterly destroyed, and corruptors get sniped very very easily due to charged void rays, and from the moment you back of with the ground army, all stalker fire is also focussed on the corrupters, which go down so very quick after that.
Also, if Roach/hydra corruptor is the right counter, how do you focus fire? Do you try to focus fire the void rays first with the corruptors, or try to take down the collosus, or just attack move? All of those that i tried didn't work.
- Attack move -> the corruptors just are attacking the few pheonix, and take soooo long to kill those, that the battle is over, and the enemy just lost 2-3 pheonix, and that's it.
- Focus fire the void rays -> i tried this as well, but the problem is that afterwards the collosus are just still alive and you have no ground forces left since the collosus took them all down
- Focus fire the collosus -> Collosus still take some time to down these collosus, and in the mean time the void ray is just charging up on the corruptors. Afterwards you have taken down the 2-3 collosus, mostly with one still standing, but no corruptors left to take down that last one, and charged void rays ripping through everything else still standing.
I'm really having trouble with this composition, so help?
Thirth situation:
Late game, toss is on 3 base, you are on 4-5.
His army composition is this: Immortals, (blink) stalkers, high templars. No collosus, no air, just those units. What is the best counter to this?
Normally it's something like 30-40 stalkers 4-6 immortals, 5-7 HT.
What is the best army composition to counter this threat? I tried roach hydra, but the hydras are being ripped apart by the storms. I tried muta/ling, but since the strong emphasis on stalkers and support of the storms those don't work, (and obviously lings just get owned by storm).
Basicly everything in the zerg arsenal is being hard countered by this composition. So the question is, what's the least hardcountered composition? I would say, that ultralisk with fungal growth could do good, but i'm not sure. I've only faced this composition once, but I had absolutely no idea how to counter it. Even though I had economic advantage, I couldn't break his army, purely due to wrong compositions on my part. But I don't know the right composition, so how do you counter it?
Fighting against toss is pretty scary on the mid/high diamond level. I'm a bit scared now to ladder, just because of above situations.
So if anyone has something useful to say about those problems, feel free, because I'm totally clueless on these ones. HELP
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^ You have to attack ASAP at 200 food, trade with his army constantly and use drop/nydus right away.
If you let him get that compo there is no way out.
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Have you tried mass baneling bombs?
Say load 10 overlord worth of 40 banelings and just poop all over the place while going in with roach/hydra, that is the only way I see to break a ball of that much expense.
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On December 21 2010 17:13 jackdaleaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 02:54 pantaray wrote:On December 21 2010 02:24 DarKFoRcE wrote:On December 21 2010 02:12 pantaray wrote:
Please help with my question.
I have a huge problem facing protoss-players which go stargate. I am playing silver/gold-protossplayers and 70% of them open with phoenix/voidrays. some of them are slow but some of them are realy quik and suprising. my overlord-scout at 4:45 often gives me no time to react properly, usually I cannot get more than 2 queens out until the first stargate-units start to push.
2 queens are problematicly, because when i inject larva one of them gets lifted/voidrayed and if the other queen is low on energy both queens will get lost soon. spore-crawler (2-4 possible after scouting) is also difficult, because you cannot have them everywhere and the toss finds a spot where he is able to hit a building without gettin hurt. if i replace the spores, he just focusfires it. after that defence-fail the voidray is charged up and nothing can stop it.
do you know a good opener against toss to deal with it pretty good? should I get 3 queens every match against toss? I start to raging, its not fun anymore. because I lose to lowlevel-players which take zero skill to pull a voidrush but i need fast and precise micro to counter it. I think there are enough suggestions in this thread as how to open vs protoss. But then again, in silver/gold, everything can be solved by better macro and generally getting things done faster. I honestly think that this is an urban legend widely spread around sc2. It is a possibly correct answer in 75% of the cases but its not as simply as that in my deepest opinion. I play together with diamond-players from time to time and what seperates them are from me are opening-bo/scouting-knowledge, micro details, gameplan, timing and a more stable mindset. Try watching Day[9] # 208, it discusses some things similar with what DarKFoRcE (macro) and you (mindset, etc.) have been saying and has helped me a lot with improving my game. Mr. Bitter I think, also has some links to live-coaching vods a few pages back that are about ZvP. I'm in plat right now (though my play I think is more goldish) and in general, I do believe better macro is usually the key in getting promoted (or at least, in my case it was), the other details like scouting and timing you learn with more experience. In response to your original question, you can try this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170096 worked for me after I finally worked out some of my macro problems (still have a lot to work on though). I don't want to give any specific advice since I'm not that good but hopefully you'll see something that'll help you. I've had problems with early stargate pressure too until recently before I figured some things out after watching/reading the vods and links I told you about above. Then again, if you're one of those who don't believe that non-2k+ diamonds have anything useful to contribute, feel free to ignore this post
thank you, found the answer in the Art of ZvP-Thread where it says that a third queen is essential against stargate-openings. Simply is that! An no, even when macro and mechanics are very important obviously and i am not that blind to see it, its not the overall answer to any question below diamond. from my experience no macro in this world will help you, when its based on the wrong strategic and tactic decisions. Yes, many players I see around are very slow and only earned their place in the ranks above bronze through cheeseplay and have just no macro. But that does not mean it explains it all. for every question for every player around. It would be easy to say that I all comes down to macro and mechanics but its not true. If it would be true hard-AI would dominate the diamond-ladder.
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^ You have to attack ASAP at 200 food, trade with his army constantly and use drop/nydus right away.
If you let him get that compo there is no way out.
I do this offcourse but usually, it happens before 200 food. As I said, the protoss is cutting in his collosus count just to bring out those voids.
I could give a replay, but the only one I have is one where i made some mistakes before the last push, so I went into the fight with a smaller army (not much, but still a little bit, which actually happens a lot, but if the toss has a normal army composition it doesn't end so drastically).
I played it once on a very macro oriented way, where i was at all time a base ahead, but I just kept losing in head to head battles.
Have you tried mass baneling bombs?
Say load 10 overlord worth of 40 banelings and just poop all over the place while going in with roach/hydra, that is the only way I see to break a ball of that much expense.
I could try this, but banelings seem like a risky road to take, since the protoss army is very resistant to banelings, and other than bombing mineral lines, you wouldn't get much benefit from it. I think the risk is to big for the amount of investment made.
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Does anyone have replays pack of top Zerg players in the world: Fruitdealer, Idra, NesTea ?
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Actually Zerg players have been having some good success with banelings on colossus balls... 20-30 take out most of their ground forces pretty quick with your ground army mopping up the rest and their air will disappear.
See this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167126
Another suggestion, don't let the game get to 200 food armies. You should be maxed first, but you need to be harassing and if possible sniping those really expensive units, keeping them in their base longer.
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Hi, bronze zerg
I'm using just 1 strategy to protoss so i can focus in macro, 2 Hatch Hydra , i can stop most timed push toss of my league trow at me but i want to know if this trategy is good in plat/diamond or too "old"
one of the problems i have is that i can't make use of ultralisk/brood lord
I never use those units and i know is a big mistake, i just play whit hydra/roach/muta-corruptor
I played a game vs a toss who had stalker/colosus, because i had corruptor i morphed some to BL, but they didn t do much damage coz stalker just blink
perhaps ultra? i read a ton about all the nerf he had so i don t know if i want to spend all that money......
If toss go void, then both tier 3 unit suks,....and those are our powerfull tier 3 units......
I need some tips to use them against P and T!!! tx
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Does anyone have replays pack of top Zerg players in the world: Fruitdealer, Idra, NesTea ?
Check gomtv.net for at least the 1st set if you sign up and all of the VoDs if you purchase the season ticket. You also may as well check the kaspersky thread - there you will find replays of Zenio and Ret which are also great Zergs.
Darkforce, how do you handle 4gates on blistering sands?
(Against 2.6k protosses and higher)
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Well there are many different 4 gate variations and depending on which one it is you need to stop eco earlier or later. But in general i just defend with roach speedling and one spinecrawler at the front (so the protoss goes for the rocks, giving me some extra time to build units).
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I see.
Stalling with making only one spine seems like a nice idea. I've had some mad trouble on that map, gonna try it that way. Thanks.
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if protoss goes mass void (8 or more) it is best to go muta or hydra?
anyone know the ratio i need to stop them?
i use muta and try to get to 2:1 (in that case i always win) but is very hard if he have a lot of void
10 void = 1500gas
20 mutas = 2000gas
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I know there's gotta be a simple answer to this.
I used to be random, and when faced with a turtling opponent, I just expanded all over, denied my opponent's expansions, and eventually starved him out.
I feel like there's no way to do this as Zerg, despite Zerg's focus on expanding. I follow the same strat, but come the endgame, if I'm unable to positively overwhelm my opponent's army, then I'm left with undefendable bases and little-to-no seige units, since Brood Lords take *so long* to get out.
How to better Zergs than I deal with turtling opponents?
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EPT
