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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Hello everyone,
In my recent thread I have been advised to watch all Filter's video's on how to improve your macro.
I'm really happy those people recommended it, and so would I. I'm still not at the level that I want to bee. But since I have been using it, it worked wonders. I can already tell that I have improved.
However, If I follow Filter's benchmarks:
35 drones at 6 minutes, including those in production.
55 drones at 8 minutes, including those in production.
I manage OK against the AI.
In league games I don't manage to nail that benchmark. I think my injects are good and I didn't get supply blocked.
The replay I submitted will hopefully point out what I'm clearly missing.
Thank you for helping me out!
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On August 10 2012 02:18 Streygo wrote:Hello everyone, In my recent thread I have been advised to watch all Filter's video's on how to improve your macro. I'm really happy those people recommended it, and so would I. I'm still not at the level that I want to bee. But since I have been using it, it worked wonders. I can already tell that I have improved. However, If I follow Filter's benchmarks: 35 drones at 6 minutes, including those in production. 55 drones at 8 minutes, including those in production. I manage OK against the AI. In league games I don't manage to nail that benchmark. I think my injects are good and I didn't get supply blocked. The replay I submitted will hopefully point out what I'm clearly missing. Thank you for helping me out!
Focus on always spending your money/larva, if your hatchery got 3+ larva its not producing the additional ones which results in lower drone number.
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There's a few things. You should start building your second queen in your main, and walk your queen down to your natural immediately after injecting. You will get your natural inject faster this way.
You don't get supply blocked, but you do build some overlords too early, which means that the overlord could have been a drone, or if larva were available two drones. Having those two drones 15 seconds earlier gets you a little bit more money and gets you another drone earlier and it all adds up.
Specifically, you built an overlord on 21/26. Remember that your natural is about to finish so you'll soon be 21/28. 25 overlord should be good enough for avoiding the supply block. Try pushing a few of your overlords 2-3 drones later and see if you can still avoid supply blocks.
Once you start building geysers and things in your main, you should probably rally your main hatch back to your main minerals to keep it saturated, instead of rallying to the natural and transferring back.
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Hey guys,i posted here a while ago and got a lot of info.one more question for you though.I've been losing a lot of games recently to heavy air attacks.what's the best thing to do when you see a big air army on their way down the map?
ps:i know the best way to defend is to scout it first,but this is if i don't do that!!!
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On August 10 2012 02:53 kiad wrote:
Hey guys,i posted here a while ago and got a lot of info.one more question for you though.I've been losing a lot of games recently to heavy air attacks.what's the best thing to do when you see a big air army on their way down the map?
ps:i know the best way to defend is to scout it first,but this is if i don't do that!!!
You have to be more specific, do you mean skyterran? Mothership+carriers? Mass void rays? We can't relaly answer your question as it is
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Thanks for the input syriuszonito and Oboeman!
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On August 10 2012 02:12 poppenfrack wrote:
Thanks @Chaosvuistje and @nlight.
So, is 15hatch only 'safe' on 2player maps in ZvZ? Because a dronescout might not scout in time in maps with more than one possible spawn for your opponent. And I assume if I see anything other than 14pool I should just make a pool myself? Or, rather, at what #pool is it still safe to go 15hatch?
Hell, it's safe against 7 pool as long as you dronescout and cancel the hatch at the right time. The only build that really kills hatch first most of the time is the 9 pool drone all in, the others can be held with good micro. Against a gas pool or pool gas opening you just have to take your gas around 17 and get a Baneling nest up before Speed, but otherwise the opening is pretty straight forward.
I could write up all the tiny tidbits about the early game in ZvZ, but I've done a pretty extensive guide on the subject as well that is still relevant to this day ( albeit due to the mapsize, less one base ZvZ's are happening ): http://raa-media.nl/blog/starcraft2/zvz-alpha-omega
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Hey guys, I have trouble doing shit against Terran lategame. Even if I have a HUGE lead to the point where I couldn't possibly lose, it still ends up being a 45 minute close game with base snipes and vikings tearing apart my BLs. I typically end up winning anyways, because nobody has good micro even at top diamond level, but I feel that I can never close a game. I like going ultras first because I'm more used to the ultra/bane/ling/infestor army comp and playstyle, but listening to Belial's arguement for broods I tried them out. I didn't attack as early as I should've, but still...Even without the surprise viking count, the stimmed marines could've easily walked over my "unbeatable" army.
My ultras helped me regain map control and dominance of the game, then I switched back to corruptor/broodlord/infestor with ~100 lings for mobility. I felt that THAT worked well, but you never hear people talk about corruptor/infestor/broodlord with lings. It's usually just infestor/broodlord that they complain about. Do you guys usually get lots of lings or roaches to buffer for your broodlord/infestor?
Here's the replay:ZvT Entombed Valley
I know I didn't play too well, but I went for some roach/ling/bane pressure and was greeted by a free army to kill, so I felt I was ahead and no need to do a baneling bust. Hellions killed some drones, I didn't really care. I had 4 hatcheries and no need to produce anything other than drones. The biggest mistake of the game, IMO, was a hotkey failure resulting in me losing ~11 mutas to a few thor/viking. Ooops ^^
I started off with a bunch of broodlords, Terran held easily. I switched to infestor/ultra/ling/bane and rolled his army, killinga base or two. He eventually held, and I switched back to infestor/broodlord/corruptor. I got mad at the immobility so I made 100 lings, and was able to stop drops while still attacking his front. A combination of him finally being mined out (fuck, Terrans don't give up until you kill their last unit and they have 0 minerals) and not having enough vikings resulted in me FINALLY winning, but if you watch the replay, I was quite ahead. How do I finish out a game when I'm so far ahead? I destroyed his 2 base timing with ease, and he didn't take a third until super late. This is worse than ZvP for trying to kill a turtle! 40 minute game that should've been 10.
Thanks everbody! 
Edit: Okay, another ZvT. This time I didn't have the game won by the 10:00 mark and got literally crushed in the lategame. Am I meant to turtle with infestor/broodlord until I'm at 200/200 and he's maxed on vikings? I feel it's a timing so I attack right when it's done, and I only killed his army and a few workers. How do you make this unit comp work? I understand it in ZvP, because they don't have vikings and tanks.
Replay of me getting destroyed: http://drop.sc/235943
I lost too many units when trying to bust him, but I didn't lose the game there. I went into the lategame with fast tech/upgrades and a decent eco. I am tempted to just go ultra/bane haha
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Thanks @Chaosvuistje and @nlight.
So, is 15hatch only 'safe' on 2player maps in ZvZ? Because a dronescout might not scout in time in maps with more than one possible spawn for your opponent. And I assume if I see anything other than 14pool I should just make a pool myself? Or, rather, at what #pool is it still safe to go 15hatch?
Well, on 4 player maps, early pools are weaker because they won't know where you spawned, so you can do hatch first on those maps too.
Personally, this is what I do -
Send my initial overlord close by air (have it hotkeyed, btw). If it meets an overlord halfway (which, say, on condemned ridge, happens by 9 supply), I'll send a drone that way to check for early pools. If not, I'll redirect it to cross spawn base, and send a regular 13 drone scout to the opposite base (not cross spawn). You should see early pools in time with this method of scouting. if it's just a super large map, say Calm before the Storm or something, early pools just aren't really feasible, at least not in a statistical sense (just early pooling on those maps is basically a guess where he spawned and you win or lose based on if you get it right AND the opponent happens to do a blind hatch first that doesnt send a drone scout on normal timing, because the rush distance is so far).
I drone scout on 10, that should reach the opponents base before you plant your 15 hatch on any map. It's just a matter of 'when' at 10 do you send it, for example on daybreak, I'll send a drone the second I hit 10, as in a drone returning from mining, but on most maps, you can send a drone right when you hit 10 and you'll be fine.
If you see an early pool, yes, you go 15 pool. If you are confident, you can even get a gas.
You should be able to go 15h/15p and be safe against any sort of early pool or pool first aggression just fine, if not 16 pool even, except 9/10/11 pools, in which case a 10 drone scout can see it in time (pool will not be finished, but will be green, when 10 drone scout arrives, and he'll obviously have ~10-12 drones).
Hell, it's safe against 7 pool as long as you dronescout and cancel the hatch at the right time. The only build that really kills hatch first most of the time is the 9 pool drone all in, the others can be held with good micro. Against a gas pool or pool gas opening you just have to take your gas around 17 and get a Baneling nest up before Speed, but otherwise the opening is pretty straight forward.
You can actually beat a drone all-in quite easily, just base trade and put a spine in his base with a scouting worker (or, if you see him send out his drones with an overlord, just send a pre-emptive drone toward his base. the reason is becuase you need a last building on a map, and while an extractor is fine, a spine is much easier because it can move off creep so you can be mobile with it, it has 2 armor, AND you should always never kill their hatch, just kill pool first and leave their hatch at 1 hp so you can kill it quickly if need be, but otherwise you can leave the spine on the creep and force a stalemate if you dont get any lings out).
Its when they leave 4 of their 12 drones, and only pull 8 of 12 drones, or something along those lines, that you will straight up lose. Any other type of 9/10/11 pool variation, besides 10 pool bane, it's possible to come out even or just slightly behind.
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On August 10 2012 03:35 Mavvie wrote:Hey guys, I have trouble doing shit against Terran lategame. Even if I have a HUGE lead to the point where I couldn't possibly lose, it still ends up being a 45 minute close game with base snipes and vikings tearing apart my BLs. I typically end up winning anyways, because nobody has good micro even at top diamond level, but I feel that I can never close a game. I like going ultras first because I'm more used to the ultra/bane/ling/infestor army comp and playstyle, but listening to Belial's arguement for broods I tried them out. I didn't attack as early as I should've, but still...Even without the surprise viking count, the stimmed marines could've easily walked over my "unbeatable" army. My ultras helped me regain map control and dominance of the game, then I switched back to corruptor/broodlord/infestor with ~100 lings for mobility. I felt that THAT worked well, but you never hear people talk about corruptor/infestor/broodlord with lings. It's usually just infestor/broodlord that they complain about. Do you guys usually get lots of lings or roaches to buffer for your broodlord/infestor? Here's the replay: ZvT Entombed ValleyI know I didn't play too well, but I went for some roach/ling/bane pressure and was greeted by a free army to kill, so I felt I was ahead and no need to do a baneling bust. Hellions killed some drones, I didn't really care. I had 4 hatcheries and no need to produce anything other than drones. The biggest mistake of the game, IMO, was a hotkey failure resulting in me losing ~11 mutas to a few thor/viking. Ooops ^^ I started off with a bunch of broodlords, Terran held easily. I switched to infestor/ultra/ling/bane and rolled his army, killinga base or two. He eventually held, and I switched back to infestor/broodlord/corruptor. I got mad at the immobility so I made 100 lings, and was able to stop drops while still attacking his front. A combination of him finally being mined out (fuck, Terrans don't give up until you kill their last unit and they have 0 minerals) and not having enough vikings resulted in me FINALLY winning, but if you watch the replay, I was quite ahead. How do I finish out a game when I'm so far ahead? I destroyed his 2 base timing with ease, and he didn't take a third until super late. This is worse than ZvP for trying to kill a turtle! 40 minute game that should've been 10. Thanks everbody! Edit: Okay, another ZvT. This time I didn't have the game won by the 10:00 mark and got literally crushed in the lategame. Am I meant to turtle with infestor/broodlord until I'm at 200/200 and he's maxed on vikings? I feel it's a timing so I attack right when it's done, and I only killed his army and a few workers. How do you make this unit comp work? I understand it in ZvP, because they don't have vikings and tanks. Replay of me getting destroyed: http://drop.sc/235943I lost too many units when trying to bust him, but I didn't lose the game there. I went into the lategame with fast tech/upgrades and a decent eco. I am tempted to just go ultra/bane haha
Only looked at the 2nd replay since its the game you lost. Obviously the roach ling bust was very bad, this needs a few banes to work but as you said you didnt lose the game there. Main problem was that after the attack you start to float a lot on resources. You got a lot of larva available 3k/1k resources but you dont make any units for some reason. Also your infestation pit should have been way earlier, you had the resources for it. Because of this the terran push at 15 min kills your third and denies any mining from your 4th. From this point on terran is leading in economy which is never a good sign for zerg. The final push you make looks like a close battle only because the terran lets you get all his bio with fungals, otherwise it would have been an easy win for him. Anyway after the initial battle you are left with 5 broodlords 4 infestors and 10 corruptors, thats just not enough to overwhelm the camping terran and his reinforcing units (and you had a huge bank that should have been used immediately). If you want this composition to work you want have a good amount of bl/infestor/ling when the initial attack starts and quickly reinforce it with corruptors/lings to overrun the terran.
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What's the best way to deal with double starport banshee? It doesn't come down in time for the usual overlord sac timings and hits (or at least hit me) before Lair finished and I could get out an overseer. Even then, banshees in critical mass shred queens and a spire or hydralisk den takes forever to get up, meanwhile everything in my base out of range of spore crawlers is getting shredded.
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On August 10 2012 09:10 Hemingway wrote:
What's the best way to deal with double starport banshee? It doesn't come down in time for the usual overlord sac timings and hits (or at least hit me) before Lair finished and I could get out an overseer. Even then, banshees in critical mass shred queens and a spire or hydralisk den takes forever to get up, meanwhile everything in my base out of range of spore crawlers is getting shredded.
You need to have quiet a few queens and spore crawlers. You have to stall with queens + spore crawlers until your spire finishes (going hydra's is not a smart idea, just get the spire).
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^ Can you provide a replay? Sounds like you are missing crucial overlord scouting timings...
If Terran did not go 1 rax FE (ie your initial overlord that you sent straight to terran's natural), you should start asking questions immediately. I would recommend making 4 lings as soon as pool finishes to check hsi wall-in if you don't see a CC on the low ground (it's okay, he will be hurt more because he didnt take his natural, even if he made it on the high ground).
From there, you should see a naked rax at the wall-in, which should make you think he's either doing a tech heavy build (1 base banshee rush) or some sort of 4-7rax all-in (which basically requires 2 spines). Keep the ling in front of his base, and the overlord by his natural, to see if he takes his expo by normal reactor hellion timing (which would be something like 5:00, or 40 supply). If he does some sort of mass marine move-out, the ling you left out front of his base should see it in plenty of time to throw down 2 spines, along with your extra queens, and reactionary lings to hold it easily.
So if you don't know if terran expanded by 30 supply, you'll have to sac your 9 overlord into his main (the one you kept watch over your natural, and then sent straight to somewhere by terran's main, or that you sent straight to terran's main since you used a drone to watch the natural for bunkers) at 30+ instead of 40+. Worst case scenario, Terran did, say, a 1 rax FE but it isn't on the low ground, and you'll know if a banshee follow up is possible, like 1 rax reactor hellion into banshee by seeing the factory, double gas, etc.
But at 40 supply, you dont see an expo on the low ground yet, and the overlord you sac'd saw more than 3 marines (3 or less, usually 2, is indicative of hellion play, like reactor hellion or double fact hellion). You should see a relatively empty base (no mass rax, no expansions), if not the starports themselves, and from there, you throw down a 40 evo, and make spores as necessary. 1 spore per base, along with the 4+ queens you make anyways as standard, and then extra spores if he makes more banshees.
Should be pretty easy to hold, and in my ZvT guide linked in my profile, I have an example of double starport banshee included:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340023
I have even a replay where I scout, react, and hold a double starport banshee all-in, even when I didn't see a single one of his starports or banshees. I saw double gas in his natural with my overlord scout (or drone scout, you should always drone scout in zvt these days given the standard response of third before pool vs CC first, and in general you should really just drone scout unless you know exactly what you are doing and are gm+), and he had more than 3 marines shooting at my overlord when I tried to sac an overlord - so even though marines completely denied my overlord scout, I knew exactly what was going on because I knew that normal expansion play, and any sort of hellion all-in or hellion-expand, would not have 5+ marines. The only builds that have 5+ marines by 30ish supply would be a 7 rax (ruled out by seeing him have gas, and no mass marine move out by ~30 supply with the ling i had out front), or a 1 base banshee all-in (because really, it's an all-in in zvt to not have an expo before starport, if not factory these days).
He also made a single hellion. You never see a single hellion unless it's a banshee rush, since you should see 2-4-6 hellions from 'normal' play since they put a reactor on the fact, a single hellion is very suspicoius.
Hydras also suck against banshees, banshees do wayyy too much dps to them, and aren't really cost effective against large numbers of them. You really should never make hydras in zvt, ever.
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This thread has been very helpful so far, so thanks!
New questions: How do I deal with immortal all-ins? I'm doing the 3hatch before gas and this always beats me. Sentries + immos destroy me no matter the number of roaches, he just FFs and gets super-efficient battles. I'm tempted to go for mutalisks, but how viable is that? I know there are different timings for the immo-allin, so maybe it wouldn't work against all of them. What I like about mutalisks is that it's great if he isn't all-inning and instead goes for a 3rd, I usually win by just massing mutas and having 500 crawlers up when it becomes a basetrade.
Anyway, am I supposed to not make roaches against it? Pure ling? Or do I need to try and meet it half-way accross the map and force him to waste sentry energy or what? I'm always so scared of getting my units trapped if I do that =S And I try not to make any units until he moves out but maybe that's wrong to do? Maybe send a stream of speedlings to pick off sentries/force FFs?
Secondly, how should I react to a FFE into 4-5 gate quick pressure? Assuming I don't see any gases on his expansion should I just get an earlier roach-den and blindly make some roaches, or is it enough to just make zerglings (which won't have speed by then)? Or spines? Is it important to deny probes moving out? Because I seem to always let at least one slip by and plant a pylon really close to my 3rd =S
Lastly, can I assume that I can always have 3 fully-saturated bases going before I need to make units against every 2base all-in? Not counting the early 4-5gate pressures, obviously I need units before I can saturate 3 bases in those situations.
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New questions: How do I deal with immortal all-ins? I'm doing the 3hatch before gas and this always beats me. Sentries + immos destroy me no matter the number of roaches, he just FFs and gets super-efficient battles. I'm tempted to go for mutalisks, but how viable is that? I know there are different timings for the immo-allin, so maybe it wouldn't work against all of them. What I like about mutalisks is that it's great if he isn't all-inning and instead goes for a 3rd, I usually win by just massing mutas and having 500 crawlers up when it becomes a basetrade.
That's the problem, you are making too many roaches. Immortals and sentries rape roaches. You should be way more ling heavy, at most you need 20 roaches.
Mutas are viable, check out the Nestea anti-immortal sentry thread on that. In short, they are viable, I use it with great success, but you are aiming specifically for the base trade - you get 6xgas by 8:00, dont make a roach warren or evo chamber if you can help it (if you did, its not a big deal, the earlier you know its a robo opening, the quicker and easier it is to go mutas as a response, but if you didn't realize he was going immortals until late, it's fine, but you should be able to tell it's robo right away with him making sentries, a robo in the natural, 2xgas taken at 6:00 or at the same time usually, etc). You mass spines in the nat when Toss pushes out, and all future units are made to go to the natural - it's so Toss has to go after your third before your main, if he went straight to your main when you go muta or roach/ling base trade, you lose, but with 6+ spines made at the nat, he can't bust it until after a few warp ins (if he tries, your 20 mutas, 8 spines, and 60+ lings should crush it before he's made enough warp ins that can muscle through).
You can do this style with both roach/ling and mutas, actually - mass spines in nat so toss has to go to third first, send out 2 drones on the map so you can make extra hatches for the base trade, and pull all drones but the gas mining ones at your third right before he arrives, go base trade. Personally, I like mutas as a response to robo, because roach/ling mass sucks if toss ends up actually expanding instead of all-inning. But even if he's doing an all-in, you shouldn't be far in the hole, because you only massed lings, just as you would if you were, say, rushing hive stephano style. You only make roaches if the opponent pushes out, and you only make 10-20 at that anyways. It's all about lings, not roaches, something I had to struggle to learn too. You almost want to be pure ling though, which makes a macro hatch very important (unless you are base trading, in which case I prefer not to make a macro hatch but instead more spines).
Macro is really important, and you should really split your army into 2 and flank, you really can't win without flanking. You should be poking over and over with lings to force forcefields as much as possible (or if he simply lets your most of your lings get in close, cut it up!).
Check out my ZvP guide in my profile. 4-5 gate quick pressure is easily dealt with by just making a roach warren at 6:30 when you realize toss hasn't taken any gas by 6:30 at his natural, with the overlord you 100% of the time have by his natural geysers. And then with the overlord sac into main at 7:00, that you sent with your ~16 overlord, you see if he's 4 gating (in which case you start lair and make some drones and only make 5 roaches and then proceed droning unless toss makes more units) or dont make lair and make pure units (seeing massss gateways in his base).
Can't rely on denying probes. It's nice if you can, but you can't guarantee it.
No, you cannot assume you have 3 fully saturated bases before defending 2b ase all-ins. You should really stop droning until you have about 20 drones per base, but it really depends on how good your macro is, since it's more about timing than drone count. You really need to stop droning at 8:30 against any gas-taking 2 base all-in, and 8:00 against non-gas taking 2 base all-ins (and in those cases, you still need to make roaches from 7:30+). If you can hit 75 drones at the 8:00 mark, great, by all means drone up to compelte 3 base saturation. But even DRG fails to hit 83+ in most of his games, so most likely you won't hit full 3 base saturation and only have about 50-60 drones. Warp gate doesnt care how many drones you have, you need to pump units after a certain time, not drone count.
But you should always be at least 70 supply by the 8:00 mark. You are going to have a hard time holding all-ins if you are below 70 supply, as Toss doesn't need to macro particularly well to plant a stargate or robo or whatever at X time, and have warp gate done by X time. It's a lot easier to pull off a 2 base all-in build macro-wise than fast third as Zerg, it's just how Zerg is and the nature of all-ins, the macro aspect is a lot harder for the defender than offense. If you are at 65 supply, you might have a chance, but if you are below 65 supply, you will have a very hard time holding, and if you are below 60 supply you should just leave the game then and there.
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Lately I've been getting bunker/pylon blocked at the ramp a lot, what are the timings that i should be patrolling a drone at the bottom of my ramp to prevent this? Should I only bother doing it against terran if I scout a 2 rax or is it possible to do off 1 rax as well?
I've also had some trouble differentiating between a 1 rax opening, a 2 rax with one of the rax as a maka rax or a CC first. Can these all be determined by counting SCVs at a certain timing before I put my pool down? If they go CC first or 1 rax i like to delay the pool a bit, and obviously a 15 hatch 14 pool if i scout a 2 rax incoming.
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^ Pull 2 drones to attack the probe at 16 supply in ZvP. One of them on a-move, the other individually micro'd to stay in front of the probe and make sure it doesnt put down a pylon (or hatch block, or ramp block). If you don't have the micro for that, then I'd recommend patrolling a single drone at the bottom of the ramp, and 1 drone on a-move after the probe. You just have to do this on ladder maps.
As for Terran, it's a lot harder since they'll have marines when ramp blocking you, so trying to deny the ramp block will cost drones (a single drone patrolling won't be enough because of that marine will kill it before you can pull more drones from the main), and if you pull too early, it hurts economically that you can't get lings out or anything and you'll have no income, and if you pull too late, gg. You'll just have to pull about 6 drones on maps like Shakuras to prevent a ramp block, and I'd recommend using 2 drones to patrol the ramp when you realize he's 2 raxing (a worker scout going into your natural at about 16 supply, or your drone scout seeing he's 2 raxing obviously).
Not sure what to tell you about terran though. Ramp blocks from terran are just ridiculously hard to deal with. That's why all the terrans 2 rax on shakuras even though no one 2 raxes in tournaments or anything, because of the 2 ramp block options they can do (so you gotta patrol at least 3 drones right away)... just nasty.
You should be able to tell it's a 2rax by counting SCVs, yes. You don't need to actually count them, here's a simple way to do it - if he doesn't have any workers mining double on the patches, then he's 2 raxing. If he was doing a normal build, ie 1 rax whatever, there will be 14-15 workers in the main, which basically means you should see about 2 workers per patch, easily (it will look much like your main's saturation, actually). If you see that he doesn't have any paired patches at all, like basically only 1 SCV per patch, then he's obviously 2 raxing. He only has 11 workers, then 2 of them, at least, are on the map making rax, and so that's 9 right there, although he'll likely pull a couple extra, so he'll usually have 7-8 workers at home, meaning 1 SCV per patch, if not less. It'll be really obvious.
And you should see the CC first with your drone. A ~13 drone scout should see the CC first when your drone arrives, or at least an SCV hanging around right in the natural about to throw it down.
And before anyone says so, drone drilling does not work. Terran will have marines shooting at you while you try to drone drill so you lose 5+ drones by the time you break through a terran who can be repairing or reinforcing the wall anyways, and Toss can simply just add pylons/gates behind the wall in so by the time you break through, the cannon is up, not to mention drone drilling won't kill 2 cannons cost efficiently, AND Toss will be ahead anyways because you weren't mining with any of your ~14 drones while Toss has 17 workers mining the whole time, despite spending ~450 minerals. And, you can't drone drill on many maps and spawn locations.
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http://drop.sc/236147
I just had this game, and I lost, and I don't know why.
Shakuras Platuea, 1k Masters.
So the opponent goes roach/ling all-in in the early game, except he doesn't completely commit to it, but it's still an all-in, I made he made a ton of roaches, no third no lair (he gets lair and goes 2 base roach/infestor after his attack fails, he starts lair when pushing out). I hold it, don't take any damage, and I believe I'm ahead at this time.
Seeing as mutas are great when ahead, I went mutas. I normally go 2 base ling/infestor into 3 base hive, but Shakuras is pretty brutal to do that on, and because he made so many roaches I figure I'll just play it safe, and go the same thing, roaches, and beat him with the huge lead I'll have.
I force a cancel on his third when it's almost done, I lose some lings... not sure if worth it, I think it was, I get my own third up. He gets infestor tech, while massing more roaches. I get supply blocked when spire finishes, really hurt, but it wasn't a timing issue so it's fine (it's not like he attacked and my mutas weren't out, it was that I made the mutas, somewhat late). I use the mutas to kill his roaches, allll the way from his base, but he has so many roaches I guess that it just doesn't work. I didn't make more drones or drone up my third or anything, I'm not sure why I lost. I guess if I made more mutas and spines, I could have held possibly? I'm not sure... I mean the whole point of going mutas is to take your third, so I'm thinking taking my third wasn't a mistake here, especially when he took his. I was trying to transition back into roaches because I knew the opponent was getting infestors and I was going to play it safe, but I just die before that happens.
So yea... need some help on this one.
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On August 10 2012 15:13 Belial88 wrote:
^ Pull 2 drones to attack the probe at 16 supply in ZvP. One of them on a-move, the other individually micro'd to stay in front of the probe and make sure it doesnt put down a pylon (or hatch block, or ramp block). If you don't have the micro for that, then I'd recommend patrolling a single drone at the bottom of the ramp, and 1 drone on a-move after the probe. You just have to do this on ladder maps.
Would this protect me from a cannon rush with a 10 forge as opposed to the more standard 13-14 forge i see in most games?
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Hey guys Plat. Zerg here lately I have been losing a lot of TvZ to the stupidest thing...Straight marine medivac with stim. Even with infestors, broods, lings, banelings and baneling mines. They always seem to scan right on my mines or even if i completely kill them they are able to remax insanely quickly. Advice?
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EPT
