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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 27 2012 15:48 Belial88 wrote:Select a bunch of drones, hit b, hit s, then hold down shift and there you go. The only problem is this tells the drones to make the spine after their current command, so they'll probably finish mining those minerals first, or return that cargo first, before planting them, so if 5-10 seconds is life or death for you, you should probably just b-s-b-s-b-s-b-s. That's what I do, imo problem with b-s-b-s-b-s is that you always end up accidentally making a baneling nest. Or I do, that's why I hold down shift. This isn't a right or wrong answer sort of thing though, but that's just how I do it i guess...
I'd recommend using shift, select the Drones (in case you need a shitton of them), click them to move where you want the Spines and then use shift to queue up. I can't tell you how many times I've built 3-4 Baneling nests.
In case I don't need a fast defense, I just build a lot of Drones on the expansion where I need it, on the way, I select them all and build Spines.
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stupid question to ask here but i can't find the answer in the common places. when you select say like 4 drones instead of 3 to go to a gas how do u deselect one of them?
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press shift then left click on the drone you want to drop from the selection.
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On July 27 2012 15:48 Belial88 wrote:
Select a bunch of drones, hit b, hit s, then hold down shift and there you go. The only problem is this tells the drones to make the spine after their current command, so they'll probably finish mining those minerals first, or return that cargo first, before planting them, so if 5-10 seconds is life or death for you, you should probably just b-s-b-s-b-s-b-s. That's what I do, imo problem with b-s-b-s-b-s is that you always end up accidentally making a baneling nest. Or I do, that's why I hold down shift. This isn't a right or wrong answer sort of thing though, but that's just how I do it i guess...
Except spine crawler hotkey is C 
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On July 26 2012 15:35 Falcon-sw wrote:
Okay I am fucking done with zerg.
I'm done with having to be 1-2 bases up on the other race just to have a chance at winning.
I'm done with having to use gas heavy units (infestors/banelings) to handle 3/3 marines, which are gods.
I'm done seeing all my roaches become worthless because Protoss got two colossus.
I'm done having to manage injects, watch for drops, watch the minimap and scout the opponent's main the entire game. Miss one of those things and die.
I'm done watching marines face my gas-heavy composition, laugh at me, split their marines, and win.
I'm done watching Protoss wall off with one cannon, one zealot and chronoboost probes all day, knowing there's jack shit I can do to stop him.
I'm done watching my brood lords melt to marines/stalkers because I didn't get off perfect fungals.
I'm done watching two colossus or three thors do massive damage while I need 7-10 brood lords to be useful at all.
I'm done. Thanks Starcraft 2, it's been a good run but this is stressing me out way too much and making me angry way too frequently.
Man I was here last night. I'm trying to get better at the game, I watch streams, GSL coverage of DRG recently, etc etc...Just such a strug. I wish I had someone over my shoulder as I was playing pointing out my mistakes -_-
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Man I was here last night. I'm trying to get better at the game, I watch streams, GSL coverage of DRG recently, etc etc...Just such a strug. I wish I had someone over my shoulder as I was playing pointing out my mistakes -_-
This is my opinion, it is not backed up by any scientifical studies 
The best way to get better at the game at low levels is to grind some games and focus on getting small parts of your play down and effective ans maintaining them effective as you work on something else. That's basically what i did for my creep spread a a while back. I went into a couple of customs with practice partners with 1 goal : getting my creppspread to a decent lenght by the 10min mark while not floating more than 30 energy per queen at the 10 min mark. I know this is not perfect but now that i have my benchmark for my creepspread i'm trying to reduce the floating energy on the queen without hindering my creepspread...
I frequently see players overwhelmed by the amount of things to do when you try to learn too much things at once.
GL HF
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On July 28 2012 00:06 Hemotherapy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 15:35 Falcon-sw wrote:
Okay I am fucking done with zerg.
I'm done with having to be 1-2 bases up on the other race just to have a chance at winning.
I'm done with having to use gas heavy units (infestors/banelings) to handle 3/3 marines, which are gods.
I'm done seeing all my roaches become worthless because Protoss got two colossus.
I'm done having to manage injects, watch for drops, watch the minimap and scout the opponent's main the entire game. Miss one of those things and die.
I'm done watching marines face my gas-heavy composition, laugh at me, split their marines, and win.
I'm done watching Protoss wall off with one cannon, one zealot and chronoboost probes all day, knowing there's jack shit I can do to stop him.
I'm done watching my brood lords melt to marines/stalkers because I didn't get off perfect fungals.
I'm done watching two colossus or three thors do massive damage while I need 7-10 brood lords to be useful at all.
I'm done. Thanks Starcraft 2, it's been a good run but this is stressing me out way too much and making me angry way too frequently. Man I was here last night. I'm trying to get better at the game, I watch streams, GSL coverage of DRG recently, etc etc...Just such a strug. I wish I had someone over my shoulder as I was playing pointing out my mistakes -_-
You don't get better by not playing.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
Like I previously stated, you want to do a lot of macro things automatically, without thinking about them much or none at all, you want to nail injects without thinking a lot, shuffle through your Hatcheries constantly, just like a Terran shuffles through his production buildings. If you think IdrA or some other players that stream for 5+ hours and playing good games are somewhat more intelligent or awesome than you, no. They have it in their "hands", so to speak. Do you think James Hetfield thinks what riff he plays next? No, he has it down so he does not have to think, you want to do the same, but how do you do that? Well, improve one thing then go to another while keeping the thing you improved at the same pace.
For example, if your creep spreading is bad, focus on that a lot in practice games while having decent macro. When you nail it down completely, go improve your injects while maintaining the same creep spread then onto Baneling micro, then onto attacking from several directions, then taking care of your Infestors, make sure they're not in the same control group as your Zerglings/Roaches, so that you don't send them to the front line unless needed, there are many ways you can improve, but macro mechanics must be carried out almost automatically. This requires a ton of practice and played games. Watching streams is good as to see "oh, he does that like that? well imma do that from now on", but you cannot possibly expect to get better at the game simply because you know how to do it, but cannot execute it. Same goes for football, you won't improve at playing football if you just keep watching it, you need to get out there, get certain physical condition then you can think what to do with the ball, instead of focusing on many things at the same time, imagine if you had to think when to breathe and when to blink, that's basically how your macro cycles should work.
Many players confuse pressing S-D then 5-v and think "FUCK YEAH, MY MACRO IS AWESOME", but if you were droning up while the attack is on the way, but you didn't have any scouting information and didn't know it was under way, you're dead. Those kinds of decisions cannot be carried out automatically, that's what we call "game sense", what can you do at a certain point and can you get away with it. The "improving" part is annoying as is any training for that matter, but in the long run, it definitely pays off.
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On July 28 2012 00:19 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 00:06 Hemotherapy wrote:On July 26 2012 15:35 Falcon-sw wrote:
Okay I am fucking done with zerg.
I'm done with having to be 1-2 bases up on the other race just to have a chance at winning.
I'm done with having to use gas heavy units (infestors/banelings) to handle 3/3 marines, which are gods.
I'm done seeing all my roaches become worthless because Protoss got two colossus.
I'm done having to manage injects, watch for drops, watch the minimap and scout the opponent's main the entire game. Miss one of those things and die.
I'm done watching marines face my gas-heavy composition, laugh at me, split their marines, and win.
I'm done watching Protoss wall off with one cannon, one zealot and chronoboost probes all day, knowing there's jack shit I can do to stop him.
I'm done watching my brood lords melt to marines/stalkers because I didn't get off perfect fungals.
I'm done watching two colossus or three thors do massive damage while I need 7-10 brood lords to be useful at all.
I'm done. Thanks Starcraft 2, it's been a good run but this is stressing me out way too much and making me angry way too frequently. Man I was here last night. I'm trying to get better at the game, I watch streams, GSL coverage of DRG recently, etc etc...Just such a strug. I wish I had someone over my shoulder as I was playing pointing out my mistakes -_- You don't get better by not playing.
yea watching streams and tournament coverage indiscriminately is probably the worst way to get better. If you really want to improve as a player, limit what you watch to maybe just a few key players in specific match-ups for specific problems (ie i know mc does lots of gateway all-ins, i have trouble with that, and drg is a top zerg, so ill watch drg vs mc, but no other games). Watching streams and tournaments and forums just kills your ladder ranking, to get better you just need to play play play.
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Hi TL Zergs,
This is a replay of a game that I have some questions about. This is one of the first times that I've felt like I did a good job of getting to 3 bases and doing it swiftly, however I'm not really sure why I got rolled so hard. I had a superior supply, though he was on +3 weapons.
After watching the replay myself I feel like my infestors were way to late, though I don't know that they would have been enough (would they?). Also my minerals skyrocket towards the end, but I felt like that was a result of me not knowing where to put them. Any tips/pointers for me?
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In ZvZ, I'm not really sure when to drone up my third. Suppose we have a standard roach/infestor vs roach/infestor thing going on. Do I drone when infestors come out? I feel like that's rather late, and sometimes I just get outmacroed. But before infestors, when it's just roach vs roach, I don't feel like there's a safe timing to drone...
I used to just open muta/ling off 2 bases, which gave a great opportunity to drone at my third, but that just crumbles in the face of these ling/infestor into ultra builds since my mutas get completely nullified .
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^ You shouldn't have a roach/infestor vs roach/infestor thing going on. If you see the opponent going for infestors after taking his third before lair, like you did, assuming a standard macro game, then you should get hydras, maybe make a few drones for your third, and then push out ~160+ supply and just steamroll him for being so greedy and dishonest. You should arrive when his infestors are maybe popping out one by one out of his hatches.
You need to go hydras before going infestors, otherwise you just get owned. Infestors take so long that you are too vulnerable to simply straight up roach max or roach/hydra attacks (roach/hydra is not as all-in i think, you'll get owned if you dont kill the infestor player, and he may make some spines which make pure roach not as good, and he can just see what you are doing and not make any infestors and make roaches himself with defenders advantage and hold), it's something like 20 roaches for the first 6 infestors or something? so hydras let you break through that basically.
Leenock vs some zerg in a zvz really recently, maybe gstl or gom, it was a recent game of him, i think on atlantis, is a good example of this. Infestors is much greedier, so if you can get away with it, obviously, you are way ahead, but at the higher level when both players are macro'ing well, going infestors before hydras will just get you killed, or so far behind that the other player has an advantage and he can simply get his own infestors and fourth safely while you can't.
It didn't take until about 800 points masters that I started to get owned when I went infestors instead of hydras, i used to think hydras were worthless, that roach/infestor > roach/hydra, but once I started getting higher up in masters, I would die every time. Roach/hydra/infestor also owns roach/infestor, and the timings work out that hydras beat someone going infestors first. You just can't cut your roach count so hard for so long and get infestors, you gotta get hydras first, and if you just go pure roach and max out and then go infestors, you'll just die to plain roach/hydra, so you really gotta go hydras before infestors.
If you have some sort of lead, or the opponent opens 2 base infestor/muta, then yea, go for infestors first, it's the greedier choice and a great way to materialize a small lead you may have gotten in the early game.
If you both took thirds before lair, then you should be able to add a mild ~10 drones to get up to ~60+ drones and be safe, and simply make some roaches before making any more. Just sort of add roaches, hydras, slowly get your drone count to 70+ as necessary. It's teching to infestors that makes you really vulnerable. With defenders advantage, you should be safe to mildly drone when before your Hydras (not infestors) come out.
Sounds like you are just dying because you keep trying to go infestors, and then that cuts your roach/unit count so hard that you die to people going pure roach. Go hydras, its a good, easy tech to get to keep you safe from pure roach, allow you to do damage to someone going infestors, and allow you to drone up and rely on defenders advantage against pure roach attacks.
As for going mutas vs 2 base infestor... take your third as soon as you realize the opponent is going 2 base infestor (double evo very early on, as in before lair, most people make it part of the wall-in so its easy to scout with lings, i always make 1 as wall and 1 in main so i can hide it, but try to get a ling in to see if he has a 2nd evo, and if he's going 2 base muta he likely won't have any evo's), and just err on the side of droning harder rather than more mutas. Going mutas is a great way to transition into that ling/infestor style as well, so if the opponent is going ling/infestor, and you went muta, just simple throw down an infestation pit, and get hive asap because you know the opponent isn't making roaches and won't do anything to attack you (just make sure to have lots of lings at home to not get owned by ling runbys, and stay home and be defensive). I do this a lot, personally - if i got a lead in early game, I'll go 2 base muta, take my third, and rush hive, throw down spines if he makes roaches, and go ultra/infestor but with quicker 3 base gas so I have the lead.
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Hmm, I've always been doing third base after lair. I hate having slow roaches. I mean if my opponent goes third before lair, can't I just hit him with a +1 speedroach timing and kill him before he gets speed? Slow roaches can't really fight speedroaches at all... especially since I can go between his nat and third.
Is there a safe way to get mutas when you're still about even after the early game?
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As a beginner to the game and being in bronze league, there is a lot of cheese/non-standard plays that you have to learn to deal with. Not having friends who are very knowledgeable with the game, I can't just ask "Hey, what is the correct response to cannon rushes at my expo when I 15 hatch"
I read up how people say "just relax and be patient - they are behind because they cheesed. Just wait until you get your lings out and it will be fine." That doesn't seem to work and your lings just die.
I had this happen to me last game, I successfully defended it (due to his terrible ability to cheese), and then figured "lets macro the best I can, because high level players argue that macro is how to win in low leagues". I essentially did a delayed fast max roach. A-moved the roaches. Still lost.
replay: http://www.sctemple.com/replay/268762/
Besides the beginner level macro, I am asking for your advice in what would have been a better decision to make during the game, and general comments.
Thank you for your help!
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On July 28 2012 17:36 Iliad wrote:+ Show Spoiler +As a beginner to the game and being in bronze league, there is a lot of cheese/non-standard plays that you have to learn to deal with. Not having friends who are very knowledgeable with the game, I can't just ask "Hey, what is the correct response to cannon rushes at my expo when I 15 hatch" I read up how people say "just relax and be patient - they are behind because they cheesed. Just wait until you get your lings out and it will be fine." That doesn't seem to work and your lings just die. I had this happen to me last game, I successfully defended it (due to his terrible ability to cheese), and then figured "lets macro the best I can, because high level players argue that macro is how to win in low leagues". I essentially did a delayed fast max roach. A-moved the roaches. Still lost. replay: http://www.sctemple.com/replay/268762/Besides the beginner level macro, I am asking for your advice in what would have been a better decision to make during the game, and general comments. Thank you for your help!
First use your second overlord to scout his probes move it to your natural and make sure you have an eye out for pylons also do this for proxy pylons when they might 4gate or earl dt rush. Also use this for bunker rushes.
I personally will pull like 4 drones and kill his workers without workers he cant make cannons, worry about the pylons once you have lings.I would also say you don't want to supply block your self ever but especially vs early pressure it will be the end of you if you mess up macro vs early pressure. At around 4 minutes in you had 2 queens qued and had 2 food free for ling but you built drones if you got lings instead you would have taken 0 damage from his poor rush. You also lost both queens try to never lose queens. His only control of high ground was his probe kill the probe use queens on high ground to kill it.
Now personally i wouldn't look to far into the rest of the game his rush put you behind more then it put him behind. But looking at it your attack with roaches was unnecessary. You could have just sat back and got to hive tech. During your attack the big light that should have gone off to abort the attack would be his immortal and sentrys never attack a toss with those little buggers on a ramp unless you have burrow/tunneling. Also just build spines you will need to spread more creep but build spines at ramps if he does lots of warp ins build em in the mineral lines you had tonnes of sparw minerals due to the fact you had 4 gas i would try for lair earlier and only attack when some thing happens like when you get roach speed and +1 attack. Or when you notice he is being greedy and has 0 units.
Other then that just focus on getting more map control so you dont feel you have to attack him put some overlords on high ground all around the map i make ling specifically for watch towers just make one rally it to the towers same with at the fron of their ramp if you want you can get burrow and burrow lings at their ramp and at their 3rd. But you being on 3 bases and him being on 2 just tech up build spines for defense and get a hive army up infestors broodlords w/e you want just get more stuff then him and remeber if you are on 3 and he is on 2 he will run out of minerals and wont be able to resupply as quickly as you.
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Sigh, I just started laddering again, and some of the T's I play are just total dicks in the early game.
Is there some way I can just kill the Terran in the midgame in response to that?
This T I play goes bunker rush with 2SCVs --> marine/hellion push --> banshees. I wanted to just baneling bust him after his marine/hellion push, but wasn't sure where to morph banelings with a banshee flying around shooting my lings. He then proceeded to wall the front of his natural with like 4 barracks...
I don't suppose it's worth it to kill a rax wall with banelings? What can I do in this situation? I don't want to draw one of these things into the endgame, get infestor/broodlord, and then die cause I wasn't looking at my infestors while dealing with his drops and shit. If he's being a dick early on, he doesn't deserve to live that long...
Is double spire with mass muta viable here? Since he won't have many marines. But he might have thors... eh.
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On July 29 2012 04:20 quarkral wrote:
Sigh, I just started laddering again, and some of the T's I play are just total dicks in the early game.
Is there some way I can just kill the Terran in the midgame in response to that?
This T I play goes bunker rush with 2SCVs --> marine/hellion push --> banshees. I wanted to just baneling bust him after his marine/hellion push, but wasn't sure where to morph banelings with a banshee flying around shooting my lings. He then proceeded to wall the front of his natural with like 4 barracks...
I don't suppose it's worth it to kill a rax wall with banelings? What can I do in this situation? I don't want to draw one of these things into the endgame, get infestor/broodlord, and then die cause I wasn't looking at my infestors while dealing with his drops and shit. If he's being a dick early on, he doesn't deserve to live that long...
Is double spire with mass muta viable here? Since he won't have many marines. But he might have thors... eh.
No, don't baneling bust a barracks wall. There is a very good way to kill a terran who goes for marine/hellion in the midgame.
A nice roach/ling/bane bust! :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344272
Not sure if the guide mentions it, but you can easily fit a 5:30 third into the build, which will give you additional larvae, make it less all-in, and possibly meta-game your opponent into a macro CC (which basically wins you the game).
If he makes a barracks wall, I recommend attacking the wall with roaches. They probably have enough range to hit the wall with impunity. I feel that these builds simply win against any play that isn't fast tank. Even banshees are EZ, they don't do enough DPS to prevent significant army damage.
Double spire is stupid, as are muta upgrades. Only muta upgrade to ever get is +carapace in ZvZ. Mass mutas will never win ZvT, unless your opponent is REALLY bad.
Yes terrans are dicks, but roach/ling/bane is good against all their early-game BS.
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How do I take a third before mutas if he has banshees? If I stay on T1 tech by going roach/ling/baneling, that delays my third even longer.
Also he can easily kill banelings with banshees, they're kinda useless. Is pure roach/ling able to bust a rax wall?
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I need help for ZvP...there's a super cheesy opening that's surprisingly amazing against everything but a roach bust...
Some replays vs a friend who does this style EVERY GAME, and often wins despite being low plat and i'm diamond:
+ Show Spoiler +Game 1: http://drop.sc/229557I forgot that he does this zealot build, and upon remembering I just herp-derped and lost my third. Failed macro game from there, kind of embarassing (Y) Game 2: http://drop.sc/229556I had both spines at third instead of 1 at nat and 1 at third, cost me queens/injects and probably lost me the game. Void ray denying fourth sealed my fate.
Hey guys, I have a question of my own.
What is the correct response to FFE into 2gate +1 zealot pressure into fast third (6:30)
I know it's a build order loss to any sort of roach all-in, but I just don't know how to deal with 4 +1 zealots at my third at 7:00. while still being able to kill him for getting such a late cyber.
I see my options as:
1) Get 5:30 double gas/roach warren, do some sort of roach all-in after scouting 2 gates
2) Build a few spines (How many?) and try to defend with spine/queen/a few lings
3) Mass lings @6:30
After defending, should I:
A) Take a fourth due to his super-delayed WG, fast tech to mutas and basetrade if he moves out
B) Mass roaches and attack at 11:00
C) Take a fast fourth and fast-tech to hive, then broodlords
My logic is that he is unable to be aggressive until his WG finishes, which is around 10:30. I could easily get 4 bases and mutas before his attack, but I could also try to "just go fucking kill him" before 10:30 because he will have nothing.
I just don't know how to defend it properly and how to take advantage of my "lead". If only Zerg had DTs or immortals...
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On July 29 2012 04:56 Mavvie wrote:I need help for ZvP...there's a super cheesy opening that's surprisingly amazing against everything but a roach bust... Some replays vs a friend who does this style EVERY GAME, and often wins despite being low plat and i'm diamond: + Show Spoiler +Game 1: http://drop.sc/229557I forgot that he does this zealot build, and upon remembering I just herp-derped and lost my third. Failed macro game from there, kind of embarassing (Y) Game 2: http://drop.sc/229556I had both spines at third instead of 1 at nat and 1 at third, cost me queens/injects and probably lost me the game. Void ray denying fourth sealed my fate. Hey guys, I have a question of my own. What is the correct response to FFE into 2gate +1 zealot pressure into fast third (6:30) I know it's a build order loss to any sort of roach all-in, but I just don't know how to deal with 4 +1 zealots at my third at 7:00. while still being able to kill him for getting such a late cyber. I see my options as: 1) Get 5:30 double gas/roach warren, do some sort of roach all-in after scouting 2 gates 2) Build a few spines (How many?) and try to defend with spine/queen/a few lings 3) Mass lings @6:30 After defending, should I: A) Take a fourth due to his super-delayed WG, fast tech to mutas and basetrade if he moves out B) Mass roaches and attack at 11:00 C) Take a fast fourth and fast-tech to hive, then broodlords My logic is that he is unable to be aggressive until his WG finishes, which is around 10:30. I could easily get 4 bases and mutas before his attack, but I could also try to "just go fucking kill him" before 10:30 because he will have nothing. I just don't know how to defend it properly and how to take advantage of my "lead". If only Zerg had DTs or immortals...
Against 2 gate zealot aggression, you know that he is seriously delaying his cybercore, so his warpgate is late. So you don't need to worry at all about the usual warpgate stuff between 8-8:30.
Defend it with lings and queens. Run the lings around behind the zealots and pester him and turn around to slow him down to give time for more lings (or a spinecrawler if you want to), then surround him in range of your queens and kill them.
Make sure you leave a few lings at his 3rd base, because protoss is not allowed to expand against zerg while his units are on the zerg side of the map. it's not allowed.
Then you have the option of droning for a full four minutes straight because he has no warpgate, or counterattacking his 3rd.
Because there is no threat of a warp-in at 8:10, you do not need 6 minute gases, and you do not need a 7 minute roach warren, unless you want to be aggressive with it. So you end up ahead or even with where you would normally be, even though you are forced into making a handful of zerglings.
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EPT
