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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On July 26 2012 01:17 repulsive wrote: Brood Lord Armor or Attack? Which is more beneficial? armor seems to be better because BLs become harder to kill. It's not uncommon for players to get attack though as players first open mutas then get +1 attack then transition into BL/infestor so their upgrades scale better. | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On July 24 2012 12:56 Forikorder wrote: when you scout a Protoss gateway all-in is there a certain drone count your trying to aim for? generally when i scout an all-in i just go crazy OMG make units and sometimes i jsut get overwhelmed and not sure if i had too few or too many drones also is there a point in the game where you jsut stop droning and pool larvae until you know its safe? sorry if these questions are too vague >< defending a gateway allin, you want to have at least 55 drones. The key indicator as to when you should stop droning is usually a probe building a proxy pylon around the 8-8:30 mark. When you see this, its a good time to make units. | ||
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Monsyphon
Canada190 Posts
I like the idea of OV speed, seems less gas intensive than constantly making Overseers, and you get to see any sneaky tech switches | ||
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eXeel
Denmark62 Posts
On July 26 2012 04:31 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: 4 queens means faster tech, less drones and a delayed third. 6 queens means late tech, more drones and a really fast third and a SHIT TON of creep spread. How do you make these conclusions? That 4 queens means less drones than 6 queens? You wont get more inject and you use more minerals, so howcome more drones? Because you dont need defending zerglings? | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On July 26 2012 07:42 eXeel wrote: How do you make these conclusions? That 4 queens means less drones than 6 queens? You wont get more inject and you use more minerals, so howcome more drones? Because you dont need defending zerglings? It's pretty much the gas timings that determine how many drones you get, not the number of queens. 6 queens lets you safely take a 3rd base while still delaying gas. | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States323 Posts
I now play Protosses who can execute perfectly timed immortal-sentry-zealot pushes at 10 minutes with warp prism drops on my third and main soon after. I play Terran who know perfect timings on denying my third and stutter step like pros, while tech switching from viking to maurader without losing a step. For those of you who say the lower leagues are all crap, it may have been a while since you've been there. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:56 Falcon-sw wrote: Gold players have improved immensely over the last year or so. I now play Protosses who can execute perfectly timed immortal-sentry-zealot pushes at 10 minutes with warp prism drops on my third and main soon after. I play Terran who know perfect timings on denying my third and stutter step like pros, while tech switching from viking to maurader without losing a step. For those of you who say the lower leagues are all crap, it may have been a while since you've been there. If they're actually gold league players, then this is probably all that they can do; screw up their BO/timings and they'll crumble under pressure. | ||
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Maxamix
Canada165 Posts
On July 26 2012 07:36 Monsyphon wrote: How do you guys go about general scouting during mid-late game? Do you get OV speed and send them into their base/es whenever you need info? Or do you run zerglings in to check their army/front? Overseers? What's your go to method I like the idea of OV speed, seems less gas intensive than constantly making Overseers, and you get to see any sneaky tech switches I mix of what you just said. I basically like to fly by with OS with changelings around their army. If i can't get the changeling i sac a couple of lings (2-4) to get an idea of the composition + numbers. OV speed is useful to get your OV out of danger if you find them in a dangerous spot and to scout for army movement. | ||
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sanddbox_sc2
United States173 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:56 Falcon-sw wrote: Gold players have improved immensely over the last year or so. I now play Protosses who can execute perfectly timed immortal-sentry-zealot pushes at 10 minutes with warp prism drops on my third and main soon after. I play Terran who know perfect timings on denying my third and stutter step like pros, while tech switching from viking to maurader without losing a step. For those of you who say the lower leagues are all crap, it may have been a while since you've been there. You're completely delusional. If you think gold players are executing perfectly up to 10 minutes you have neither the ability to analyze replays nor the mentality to admit mistakes. | ||
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Atthasit
Russian Federation81 Posts
On July 26 2012 00:25 DogDirt wrote: + Show Spoiler + ZvT Endgame Unbeatable Terran? (Bronze-Z Silver-T) At work right now but will get a replay up later, basically went 14 pool 15 hatch. Defended a few attacks around the 7minute mark (3tanks, 10marines, 3-5 marauders) with ling/baneling/roach. Moved into spire/ling/roach play and teched to hive to go into broodlords. I was able to hold him on two bases till about 12mins i had three since about the 8minute mark. Game went to about the 45min mark fyi. Endgame- I did not make some of the most cost efficient trades but with an extra base up i figured i was in good shape. Heres my issue, whats the possible counter for this army composition when you have nearly infinite resources His: 6-7 Vikings 4 Ravens Mass Rine/Tank/Maurader 5Medivac 3/3 land (not sure on air) Mine: 5Broodlords 6Corruptor 30 roach Lings 2 infestors(orig. 5 but 3 died) 3/3 land 2/0 (air) Numbers are probably some what off but this is the basic idea, Any land effort i had was crushed by tanks with marine maurader medivac support. And my broodlords and corruptors were demolished by marine/viking/raven. Only thing i can thing is just not let them get to the end game or replace roaches with infestors. Even with a significant econ(always stayed 1 base ahead and constantly harassed his third with infestor) he was able to keep matching armys with me. Was i just out played? or is this a hard comp to beat Your composition wasn't exactly what you'd want to have in lategame. Why so many roaches? Was he building a lot of hellions in the midgame or was there a point when you suspected him going mech? Because these are the only 2 cases when you'd want to have roaches in a ZvT. 5 Broodlords is pretty much nothing. You want to have 10+ to make them really work and scare the crap out of terran. Also I feel you should have more infestors. You need them to protect those precious BLs from marines and vikings! You didn't mention how your muta play went (I'm thinking since you say nothing about mutas in your army composition, they probably all died?). Personally I don't even use mutas in ZvT anymore because of how good of a player I need to be to make them cost effective and how hard it is to transition into lategame when you've invested so much gas into muta. Have you tried going infestor in the midgame? You mention you were ahead 1 base. It's really hard to comment on this without seeing the replay but maybe you could have had more bases, since you had him pinned down to only 2 bases (assuming with muta help). TL;DR I feel roaches lost you this game. 30 roaches is a huge lot of supply and gas, that could have been BLs, infestors and more bases. Don't build roaches against terran unless he's going mech or has a decent amount of hellions in his army. | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States323 Posts
You're completely delusional. If you think gold players are executing perfectly up to 10 minutes you have neither the ability to analyze replays nor the mentality to admit mistakes. How long since you've played against Gold players? I just rewatched the replay. At 10:30 he has 2 immortals, 1 warp prism, 4 zealots, six stalkers and 5 sentries. He hits my natural with all his attacking units, while warping in zealots at my main and 3rd mineral lines. Gold level. Smurfing or Gold has just improved that much since the game was released. | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States323 Posts
I'm done with having to be 1-2 bases up on the other race just to have a chance at winning. I'm done with having to use gas heavy units (infestors/banelings) to handle 3/3 marines, which are gods. I'm done seeing all my roaches become worthless because Protoss got two colossus. I'm done having to manage injects, watch for drops, watch the minimap and scout the opponent's main the entire game. Miss one of those things and die. I'm done watching marines face my gas-heavy composition, laugh at me, split their marines, and win. I'm done watching Protoss wall off with one cannon, one zealot and chronoboost probes all day, knowing there's jack shit I can do to stop him. I'm done watching my brood lords melt to marines/stalkers because I didn't get off perfect fungals. I'm done watching two colossus or three thors do massive damage while I need 7-10 brood lords to be useful at all. I'm done. Thanks Starcraft 2, it's been a good run but this is stressing me out way too much and making me angry way too frequently. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On July 26 2012 15:35 Falcon-sw wrote: Okay I am fucking done with zerg. Share some replays and I'm sure people will be glad to help with your problems, me included. | ||
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Conai
Hong Kong39 Posts
On July 26 2012 15:35 Falcon-sw wrote: Okay I am fucking done with zerg. . >< if you ever want to practice, im up for some and maybe help each other out? character code: conai #365 | ||
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ysnake
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 26 2012 15:35 Falcon-sw wrote: Okay I am fucking done with zerg. Every race has annoying things. As Protoss you'll hate Stephano-style when actually wanting to go macro-mode against Zerg. As Protoss you'll hate PvP. As Protoss you'll hate Stim timings. As Protoss you'll hate the cost ineffective T1 units. As Protoss you'll hate mass Mutalisk harass pinning you down in your base. As Terran you'll hate Infestors and Banelings. As Terran you'll hate Baneling busts. As Terran you'll hate Zealot/Archon. As Terran you'll hate 30+min mirror MUs that you lose. As Terran you'll hate seeing Brood Lords at 15-16min mark. Just cool off and if it gets too frustrating, go "fuck it" mode, don't try to be Stephano, DRG or whatever your idol might be, you might get there some day, but for the time being, there is a reason why pro players really spend almost all of their time practicing the game, as you really cannot afford to think in the midst of everything, it needs to be a reaction and instantly knowing what to do (you can't possibly be thinking "oh, what is he planning to do now, should I do this, or should I do that, he can counter that with this etc etc" while going on a mad spamming streak 555v 6666v 7777v 88888v box tumors cccccccc etc etc). All of those things you mentioned annoy every Zerg out there from time to time. Just think of Starcraft as playing a guitar (or any instrument for that matter). As a musician, if you're standing there (I kinda am one) and thinking "ok, what's the next part?", BAM, you fuck up, you just need to have it in your hands. There is a reason why people tell you to analyze your replays as you cannot analyze them during the game. Remember, you could have won EVERY game you ever played, if only you did something else than what you were doing. If you are stressed out because of Starcraft, chill out, go play something brain dead, some Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Baldur's Gate 2, anything, just chill out. Starcraft is a very demanding game, especially mentally, if you go on a losing streak, just stop for today, play something else and that's it, everyone had ladder anxiety once in a while. Well, hope it helped in a way sir <3 | ||
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whistle
United States141 Posts
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Bearwidme
Australia57 Posts
On July 26 2012 20:18 whistle wrote: How do you stop banelings from exploding on contact when something (a speedling) attacks them? Unfortunately I couldn't find an answer by searching. Hold position doesn't work, stop command doesn't work, it seems I have to constantly keep them on move command? Is there another trick to this? No trick, you just have to be moving them around when the enemy is trying to run in single/double zerglings. If you're really good and want to keep macroing whilst you micro the banelings just queue up move commands (e.g. up and down the ramp between natural and main) and then concerntrate on something else for ~3/4 seconds etc. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On July 26 2012 20:31 Bearwidme wrote: No trick, you just have to be moving them around when the enemy is trying to run in single/double zerglings. If you're really good and want to keep macroing whilst you micro the banelings just queue up move commands (e.g. up and down the ramp between natural and main) and then concerntrate on something else for ~3/4 seconds etc. Yeah move command is what you need to use. When defending with banes, keep them near a queen or spine or lings so that they will kill of the sniping ling while you run the bane away. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:56 Falcon-sw wrote: Gold players have improved immensely over the last year or so. I now play Protosses who can execute perfectly timed immortal-sentry-zealot pushes at 10 minutes with warp prism drops on my third and main soon after. I play Terran who know perfect timings on denying my third and stutter step like pros, while tech switching from viking to maurader without losing a step. For those of you who say the lower leagues are all crap, it may have been a while since you've been there. It may SEEM like they're worlds better than they actually are. I practiced with a low masters roommate yesterday and he destroyed me in two straight zvz's, but after looking at expansion timings and drone counts I found that he really didn't play as well as I thought. Anyway, I'm the first to admit that there is no lack of talent in the lower leagues. I was stuck in Platinum for 3.5 months! It wasn't until I completely nailed my early game macro that I started getting consistent wins. With that being said, it is easier to execute a protoss 2 base all-in than defend it. Conversely, it is easier to go max roach than it is to defend it for protoss. It should come as no surprise that lower level toss players are sticking to easier strategies. The biggest difference between these players and someone in masters is their level of play from the early/mid/late game. If you're dying to a 10 minute immortal/zealot/sentry/warp prism attack then imagine what would happen if you held it off. Imagine if your third survived the terran timing attack. Then what happens? I'll tell you - you'll kick the crap out of them! Lower level players tend to know a couple aspects of their play REALLY well, but everything outside of that is uncomfortable, unclear, and most of all, unpracticed. That same low masters friend farms wins from weird timing attacks that interrupt his opponent's build. I chose the high road - learning to defend a lot of the cheesy and gimmicky strategies and entering the phase of the game where I am most comfortable! | ||
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DogDirt
United States10 Posts
[QUOTE]On July 26 2012 00:25 DogDirt wrote: [spoiler]ZvT Endgame Unbeatable Terran? (Bronze-Z Silver-T) TL;DR I feel roaches lost you this game. 30 roaches is a huge lot of supply and gas, that could have been BLs, infestors and more bases. Don't build roaches against terran unless he's going mech or has a decent amount of hellions in his army. [/QUOTE] Thanks, Yeah I always assumed roaches were good against tanks to take some of the damage for the lings to get in. I played a gold terran and the game went to around 45mins and i was able to crush him with about 8bl's and 7-8 infestors + Mass ling. Infestors > roaches for anyone else having a problem against late game marine/tank/viking. Also fyi muta play was non existant he went to reactor vikings pretty early so i just skipped to greater spire might have been what hurt me as well with no base harass. | ||
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