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I took a long long break from sc2 from about august last year till a few weeks ago. I used to play Zerg with a very agressive playstyle. I loved the speedling expand vs 3 gate FE shenanigans and the way I put up constant pressure from very early on.
I came back tot he game a few weeks ago and found out that the playstyle that made me fall in love with zerg isn't viable anymore. almost every zerg macroes up for 10-12 minutes before they do anything and the timed I tried some agressive plays I get smashed down instantly.
Is there a place for agressive Zerg in the metagame, or am I better off switch to P or T, which do have viable early pressure builds and annoying strategies (dropping and +1 timing pushes etcetc)?
if there is a place for an agressive zerg playstyle, could someone name some things that I could try(no I'm not talking about that stephano roach max stuff...), pretty please 
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^ might be better off switching, but the other races are in the same spot too.... it's not as much zerg, it's just the way the game as evolved. Toss is probably the race that still uses 2 base all-ins the most.
there's plenty of cute all-ins though, my zvt and zvp guides describe a bunch of aggressive all-ins and pressure you can do. But 'aggressive' zerg is just 'all-in' zerg.
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On July 21 2012 06:09 Belial88 wrote:
^ might be better off switching, but the other races are in the same spot too.... it's not as much zerg, it's just the way the game as evolved. Toss is probably the race that still uses 2 base all-ins the most.
there's plenty of cute all-ins though, my zvt and zvp guides describe a bunch of aggressive all-ins and pressure you can do. But 'aggressive' zerg is just 'all-in' zerg.
hmmh I was afraid of that 
I think I'll start learning a bit of protoss, I love the warpin mechanic and warp prism drops etc.
thanks for the advice
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On July 21 2012 06:25 GuardianEU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 06:09 Belial88 wrote:
^ might be better off switching, but the other races are in the same spot too.... it's not as much zerg, it's just the way the game as evolved. Toss is probably the race that still uses 2 base all-ins the most.
there's plenty of cute all-ins though, my zvt and zvp guides describe a bunch of aggressive all-ins and pressure you can do. But 'aggressive' zerg is just 'all-in' zerg. hmmh I was afraid of that I think I'll start learning a bit of protoss, I love the warpin mechanic and warp prism drops etc. thanks for the advice
There are some aggressive builds you can do; in ZvZ especially playing aggressively is a valid playstyle, ZvP a 7 pool opening allows pressure, and a variety of follow ups depending on the protoss's reaction. ZvT is very tricky to apply pressure, but being said you can still do it with roaches, lings, blings ect.
These sorts of builds won't work particularly effective once your in mid-master, but its still a valid style in lower levels of play.
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guys just a quick question about your vetoes this season. at the beginning ive had vetoed entombed, TDA and antiga, but im getting more and more tempted to veto ohana since im having huuuuge problems with toss on that map. is it just me losing all the time against sentry-immo on that map or do you have the same experience?!
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 21 2012 08:46 joeyBanana wrote:
guys just a quick question about your vetoes this season. at the beginning ive had vetoed entombed, TDA and antiga, but im getting more and more tempted to veto ohana since im having huuuuge problems with toss on that map. is it just me losing all the time against sentry-immo on that map or do you have the same experience?!
Ohana is a good map for lings, no reason not to go ling/muta on that map, you can basically pin the Protoss on his 2/3 bases. Immortal/Sentry allins are all about engagements, if you engage him at your third, you deserve to lose. You should have map control if he is doing that build, therefore, if you see him move out, go in, bait force fields, try to snipe Sentries, fall back, get reinforcements.
I have Entombed, Tal'Darim and Condemned Ridge vetoed.
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^ why would you veto condemned ridge?
Imo antiga is the worst map on ladder, especially with close spawns and abuse from drops, siege tanks, blink, from main/third. It would just be an 'generally unpleasant' or 'unfavored' map if close spawns were removed... same with vortex valley.
i think every race hates tda though - pvp is stupid, zvz is stupid because you can't hatch first (ie if you do, you have to make so many lings or cut so much econ against pool first that you cant go hatch first on it, not to mention cant take a third before lair, cliff abuse, have to go 14/14 on it), tvz its just too big for some terrans.
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On July 21 2012 09:24 Belial88 wrote:
^ why would you veto condemned ridge?
Condemned ridge is the most hilariously zerg favored map in the pool =]
On July 21 2012 09:22 ysnake wrote:
Ohana is a good map for lings, no reason not to go ling/muta on that map, you can basically pin the Protoss on his 2/3 bases
I've heard this a lot but it doesn't seem intuitive.
There is no open space behind the main/natural/third so you can't really dart in and out with mutas, so why is it so popular on Ohana?
I myself don't feel Ohana is much different to hold an immortal/sentry all in than all the other maps.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 21 2012 09:24 Belial88 wrote:
^ why would you veto condemned ridge?
Imo antiga is the worst map on ladder, especially with close spawns and abuse from drops, siege tanks, blink, from main/third. It would just be an 'generally unpleasant' or 'unfavored' map if close spawns were removed... same with vortex valley.
i think every race hates tda though - pvp is stupid, zvz is stupid because you can't hatch first (ie if you do, you have to make so many lings or cut so much econ against pool first that you cant go hatch first on it, not to mention cant take a third before lair, cliff abuse, have to go 14/14 on it), tvz its just too big for some terrans.
Because when I played on Condemned Ridge, out of 14 games, 13 were ZvZ :/, and lost one ZvT while on gglords and Terran just doom-dropped my bases and went on a base race.
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^ What does that have to do with the map?
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ZvT - Heavy Queen/Fast 3rd timings:
1. Around when should I be taking my fast 3rd?
2. When should I take my gases/how many gases should I take?
3. Should I get Melee/Carapace before Ling speed?
4. When should I make my Baneling Nest to stop any Marine/Bio pressure?
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^ My ZvT Guide has been updated to answer all of those questions, and the replay section has been updated to provide an example as well.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 21 2012 10:22 Belial88 wrote:
^ What does that have to do with the map?
Dislike playing ZvZ even though it is my best MU.
Seems like other races veto this map a lot.
Edit: Also, the map is too big for me
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The other races veto it because it's zerg favored.
Interesting though, you are right. I have on Condemned ridge:
ZvT 25 games @ 63%
ZvZ 35 games @ 42%
ZvP 19 games @ 52%
I feel like ZvZ is my best match-up but sc2gears always tells me otherwise. So weird, I swear I think it's my best but statistically it's always been my worst. Not sure why.
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How is condemned ridge zerg favored? I honestly haven't played a single game on it because I veto'd it right when it came out. It seems that the ridge over the third, the close third base, the easily defendable 4th, and the chokeable center is very disadvantageous to zerg :/
Antigua isn't that bad because of the gold base and the seige tank / blink abuse you talk about doesn't happen all that often
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I haven't played any games where the ridge on the third was an issue, and if anything, it's more helpful to Zerg than not (great for mutas to swoop in imo). By the time you take your third you should have overlords all around it, and there's great airspace around your third, one of the best map features imo, the way the map sort of curves by the third so you can have overlords all around it. The third is close so it's easy to defend for zerg, but it's super wide open so it's hard for terran or toss. It's easier to defend for zerg than on cloud kingdom or entombed, yet it's harder for t/p to defend on those same maps.
What chokeable center? It also has routes to flank that are perfect. And on left/right, there is no choke like that, and just don't engage there, right before and after the center, is a huge open area, especialyl out front of your base. It's great
Antiga is a terrible map, are you kidding? The gold, yea, that's somewhat zerg favored, but on close spawns it's not practical at all, nor is it practical in zvt or zvz. The siege tank/blink abuse happened to me all the time when I played, maybe that's just different experiences, I don't know how that doesn't happen to you every game. Terran takes their third, which is right next to your main, or you take your third next to Terran's main, and they put a bunch of turrets up and siege tanks there and then start dropping into your third. Then close spawns, just the rush distance being smaller than steppes of war is a huge pain in the ass. warp gate all-ins are impossible to deal with. And a fourth is impossible to get too.
would much rather play vortex valley than antiga. Especially ladder antiga.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
I could play any 4-player map as long as it is forced cross-spawn, but I doubt Blizzard would make that happen any time soon.
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Alright so I took a massive advantage over a protoss but failed to actually finally kill him, so it eventually went into a camp fest with spines and all that crap on ohana. I had 5 bases secure, two of them kinda fresh, my nat and main mined out gas and all, third mined out gas still going, 200/200 with I think 12 infestors and like 15 broordlords, only a couple lings and roaches and such. Protoss moves to take his fifth, I figure because Ive had an advantage all game and I just smashed his army that I could just walk over and deny it-- what else am I gonna do right? Long story short he basically kills the whole army with stalkers. I take it attacking EVER is a bad move? Wtf am I suppose to do then when im maxed and the toss is trying to expand? Am I literally suppose to sit there hoping when he mines THE MAP and I mine THE MAP he will be weaker than me...or something? I dont get it.
edit: belial what maps do you downvote? .
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 21 2012 15:14 whatevername wrote:
Alright so I took a massive advantage over a protoss but failed to actually finally kill him, so it eventually went into a camp fest with spines and all that crap on ohana. I had 5 bases secure, two of them kinda fresh, my nat and main mined out gas and all, third mined out gas still going, 200/200 with I think 12 infestors and like 15 broordlords, only a couple lings and roaches and such. Protoss moves to take his fifth, I figure because Ive had an advantage all game and I just smashed his army that I could just walk over and deny it-- what else am I gonna do right? Long story short he basically kills the whole army with stalkers. I take it attacking EVER is a bad move? Wtf am I suppose to do then when im maxed and the toss is trying to expand? Am I literally suppose to sit there hoping when he mines THE MAP and I mine THE MAP he will be weaker than me...or something? I dont get it.
edit: belial what maps do you downvote? .
If you died to Stalkers, it was probably due to poor engagement, what was your ground army composition?
Also, provide a replay.
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I love Condemned Ridge.
yes, the third is a little hard to take for toss/terran, but it's just the way SC2 maps should be. Large, plenty of expansions, plenty of attack/drop routes... leads to more frequent engagements on a smaller scale. Instead of awful, turtle oriented maps like Antiga, Shakuras, Ohana, Entombed...
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EPT
