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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On July 13 2012 13:22 vizi wrote: What's a solid, first build to begin practicing for every possible matchup? Thinking of switching races and I don't know much. Do some searching for yourself there is plenty of resources out there. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On July 13 2012 13:22 vizi wrote: What's a solid, first build to begin practicing for every possible matchup? Thinking of switching races and I don't know much. zvt: 15 hatch 16 pool drone and get 4 queens, at 40 supply take all 4 gas, first 100 to speed second to lair, throw down two evos and go infestor/ling zvp: 14 pool 16 hatch 24[ish] hatch at 3rd, drone drone max on roaches at 12 to fuck the tosses third base zvz: 15pool 15 hatch 15 gas, ling baneling, transition...I donno  trying to figure that part out! | ||
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Walitgon
Australia550 Posts
A question about holding off 2-base sentry immortal all-ins from toss. I can often hold this push with roach ling but only BARELY and with perfect execution. Plus I have to scout a potential 4gate pressure first which can interrupt my economy etc. I have heard some suggestions that hydras are the answer and I can see that they have potential, although I have not fared well with them. I have also heard people say go 3gas only, with a macro hatch, go heavy ling, and bait forcefields during his walk across the map. There are two problems I have with these strategies: (a) it seems that with with PERFECT forcefields, you will have a REALLY hard time dealing with this push. That is, you can hold it, but your ability to is somewhat taken out of your control because you can't control where those FF land. (b) to hold this push it seems that you need way more skill and APM than required to execute it. This leads me to believe that in general standard stephano style, or hydras, or ling heavy, are not the correct strategic 'solution'. I am starting to think that I'll have to opt for Dimaga-style bane rain, although it is difficult to execute - simply because it puts the control back in my court, and when properly executed, seems to destroy this push. What are my fellow zergs thoughts on this? I am tired of losing to this push every second P v Z I play =D | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
load in banelings, send in lings and some banelings from 2 sides so he has to FF himself in and drop the crap out of him.  | ||
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Walitgon
Australia550 Posts
What I mean is, if you knew your opponent was going to sentry immortal all-in you, and you had perfect control, that would be the correct counter in principle, right? Yes right, must be! | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On July 13 2012 13:44 Moosegills wrote: Do some searching for yourself there is plenty of resources out there. Very helpful, so glad you posted this. It's the general zerg thread, basically the zerg equivalent of simple questions simple answers. The whole point is that it doesn't take long for you to answer question like this. Try searching for "Zerg openings" or "Z build order" or something like that, you get so many results and you have no clue which are dated, which are good/reliable. Most threads that pop up for me are threads that got closed because they asked what good zerg openers should be. If you're not going to help people why make a post like this? | ||
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jpaolof
28 Posts
What's the hotkey to select all spawning larvae to be rallied? Just noticed some zerg streams especially DRG rallying those already spawning larvae. Thanks in advance. | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On July 13 2012 18:28 jpaolof wrote: Guys, What's the hotkey to select all spawning larvae to be rallied? Just noticed some zerg streams especially DRG rallying those already spawning larvae. Thanks in advance. well there isn't such a hotkey Basically what you do is : 1. make your units 2. select the eggs (by CTRL+ click on the eggs) 3. add them to a control group (same as for normal units). | ||
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leknah
1 Post
Any suggestions? | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On July 13 2012 13:22 vizi wrote: What's a solid, first build to begin practicing for every possible matchup? Thinking of switching races and I don't know much. hello! I am afraid that today, there isn't a regular opening that fits all three match up. Better, would be the following. - in Z v Z you can either hatch first (15 hatch 15 pool) or 14 gas 14 pool into expand after zergling speed is done. the follow up is very variable, given the volatility of the match up. Basically, you can drone or all in; and when you are alled in, you need to drop what you are doing and make sure you have some banelings for defense... So scouting your opponent is key. - in Z v P, make 15 pool 16 hatch. If you see your opponent forge fast expand, grab your third at around 21. take 2 gas at 6:00 and roach warren at 6:45/ 7; while droning up to around 60 drones (or around min 8). Then you need to scout to check the timing of your opponent push, if any; and react accordingly. if it comes later, you can make one more round of units. - in Z v T, you really need to hatch first: 15 hatch , 15 pool would be regular. then depending on what you see, you grab your third earlier or later. if he is doing some kind of classical helion play (no fast CC) then take gas, and stay a bit longer on two bases. If you see him 1 rax expand or CC first, take your third asap. If you absolutely want only one build for all the three matches up, though, I would recommend some 14 gas 14 pool opening, make speedling, remove drones from gas while expanding. it will put you behind in economy, but then you are safe, and have midgame perspectives. | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On July 13 2012 18:58 leknah wrote: Speaking of keybinds, how do people normally keybind their rallys, specifically when making units while already attacked? If you just set them to 1 unit and he dies, well then stuff just spawns at your base. If you just set it to their base, then all my overlords like to charge to their base as well, and while they fly slowly, I still forget about them and they can get killed or whatever. Any suggestions? Hello Well basically, I would be tempted to say that the optimal solution is precisely to bind your new units (as mentioned in the previous post) so that you don't change so much your rally points, but your new units are automatically integrated in your control groups, and therefore will join the army easily. it takes some energy to do it in the beginning, but definitely worth it! | ||
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Ariion
Poland50 Posts
I'm thinking about inject methods, at the moment I'm using backspace (changed to space) method, but as my base number grows or my Queens are getting sniped they are running from one hatch to another. I know I can just hit Hold after one round of hitting space, but I'm not sure if it's "the" way to inject. I'm also used to (at least on the basic level) screen hotkeys. Would it be better to just F1->Queen->V, F2->repeat? It would probably be slower (at the start at least), but might save me from chaos of running Queens. I know it's matter of preference and the topic was already done countless times, but as I'm switching race I want to have good background from the start. In short: is screen hotkey injecting worth it to eliminate chaos from running Queens? Thanks in advance | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On July 13 2012 17:30 Walitgon wrote: Hi guys (Blade and Belial lol) A question about holding off 2-base sentry immortal all-ins from toss. I can often hold this push with roach ling but only BARELY and with perfect execution. Plus I have to scout a potential 4gate pressure first which can interrupt my economy etc. I have heard some suggestions that hydras are the answer and I can see that they have potential, although I have not fared well with them. I have also heard people say go 3gas only, with a macro hatch, go heavy ling, and bait forcefields during his walk across the map. There are two problems I have with these strategies: (a) it seems that with with PERFECT forcefields, you will have a REALLY hard time dealing with this push. That is, you can hold it, but your ability to is somewhat taken out of your control because you can't control where those FF land. (b) to hold this push it seems that you need way more skill and APM than required to execute it. This leads me to believe that in general standard stephano style, or hydras, or ling heavy, are not the correct strategic 'solution'. I am starting to think that I'll have to opt for Dimaga-style bane rain, although it is difficult to execute - simply because it puts the control back in my court, and when properly executed, seems to destroy this push. What are my fellow zergs thoughts on this? I am tired of losing to this push every second P v Z I play =D I personnally think that mass roach ling, stephano style, is the answer to that; with everything you said (forcefield bait, etc); Plus engaging from multiple angles is really key. For that reason, in such situation, I would recommend to change control groups from a unit oriented one (4 roaches, 2 zerglings), to a position oriented one (like group from the north with 4, from the south with 2, etc.). That with 2 or 3 spines; I find I can defend honorably such pushes (although you of course die easily when supply blocked, for instance...) | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On July 13 2012 19:10 Ariion wrote: Hey, plat Terran here, switching to Zerg. I'm thinking about inject methods, at the moment I'm using backspace (changed to space) method, but as my base number grows or my Queens are getting sniped they are running from one hatch to another. I know I can just hit Hold after one round of hitting space, but I'm not sure if it's "the" way to inject. I'm also used to (at least on the basic level) screen hotkeys. Would it be better to just F1->Queen->V, F2->repeat? It would probably be slower (at the start at least), but might save me from chaos of running Queens. I know it's matter of preference and the topic was already done countless times, but as I'm switching race I want to have good background from the start. In short: is screen hotkey injecting worth it to eliminate chaos from running Queens? Thanks in advance As you said, there has been much discussion about these topics; and definitive evidence is hard to provide. Most pros will inject manually; but some can use the backspace method. Personally, I would do a mix of both: manually in early game, or whenever i see a hatch without inject; and backspace when you are more busy with the fight and so on. About the backspace method, you have two variations, the one with shift, which is faster, but tends to be really messy, as it forces queen to cross the whole map; and the one without shift (which I personnally prefer), in which you repeat v+click; which is much less messy, as queens won't cross the map, but a bit slower (yet, still quicker than manual injection). | ||
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Ariion
Poland50 Posts
On July 13 2012 20:49 Macpo wrote: As you said, there has been much discussion about these topics; and definitive evidence is hard to provide. Most pros will inject manually; but some can use the backspace method. Personally, I would do a mix of both: manually in early game, or whenever i see a hatch without inject; and backspace when you are more busy with the fight and so on. About the backspace method, you have two variations, the one with shift, which is faster, but tends to be really messy, as it forces queen to cross the whole map; and the one without shift (which I personnally prefer), in which you repeat v+click; which is much less messy, as queens won't cross the map, but a bit slower (yet, still quicker than manual injection). I'm kinda mixing it already, but it's mostly because I have bad injects and sometimes I see not injected hatch and do it manually, but I would rather do it on purpose instead of being bad I will try non-shift version and see how I feel with it, thank You! | ||
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Maxamix
Canada165 Posts
On July 13 2012 18:58 leknah wrote: Speaking of keybinds, how do people normally keybind their rallys, specifically when making units while already attacked? If you just set them to 1 unit and he dies, well then stuff just spawns at your base. If you just set it to their base, then all my overlords like to charge to their base as well, and while they fly slowly, I still forget about them and they can get killed or whatever. Any suggestions? I normally set my rally to my base so the overload don't charge at the opponent's base and rally my morphing units to my army group (1-2-3-7-8) This is done by control + click on eggs as they morph then you add them to the corresponding group. When i'm under attack i usually rally all my newly created units to a control group that is un-used at the moment (say 4). So that way my newly created units are not moving where my dying army is as they pop out of their eggs. once they are out i add them on to my main group (lets say 1). And then i rinse and repeat. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On July 13 2012 19:07 Macpo wrote: Hello Well basically, I would be tempted to say that the optimal solution is precisely to bind your new units (as mentioned in the previous post) so that you don't change so much your rally points, but your new units are automatically integrated in your control groups, and therefore will join the army easily. it takes some energy to do it in the beginning, but definitely worth it! Yup! I don't even use the hatchery's rally points; there's no need! Just add the larvae to the control group, and voila! With overlords, just rally their eggs (4svvv, click on minimap) then continue micro/macro. Btw, to add eggs to say, control group 1, you ctrl+click the eggs, release those keys, then press shift+1. | ||
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
In plat here, and struggling lately against Terran mech timings, as I'm not sure of the right unit compositions. The blue flame hellions tend to lead me into roach, and then I just seem to get stuck on roach. What is the ideal composition and tactics against a mostly blue flame hellion, siege tank with a few thors mixed in? The advice against the P immortal timings in here has been a great help. Thanks | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On July 13 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote: Hi Zerg Buddies In plat here, and struggling lately against Terran mech timings, as I'm not sure of the right unit compositions. The blue flame hellions tend to lead me into roach, and then I just seem to get stuck on roach. What is the ideal composition and tactics against a mostly blue flame hellion, siege tank with a few thors mixed in? The advice against the P immortal timings in here has been a great help. Thanks actually roaches are good against mech: make sure you have upgrades, burrow, and burrow move. Also make sure you engage when terran is moving out, to catch him off guard. Otherwise, you can burrowmove under his tanks. Finally, if he sits on three bases and doesn't push, then you need to think about a transition to broodlords. | ||
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