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On October 09 2010 10:50 james11787 wrote:
I'm a Zerg player, and im having trouble moving up the leagues. I got placed in bronze bc i was just screwing around and playing with builds and different strats, but now im tryign to move up and its impossible. Im currently 100-98, number 1 in my bronze division, and i won 15 of my last 16 games. Idk what to do
Tough to say without replays, but as a bronze player, you generally won't be macroing like you should. Watch some day 9 dailies on the SC2 basics (episode 132 i think it was was about this for example), and try to incorporate these in your play as best as you can. Also, pick up a basic BO (like 14 gas 14 pool) and practice that on the ladder. Good luck!
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I keep having issues about when to attack.
I try to do what people have said to do. Just drone and defend. If they attack, then you counterattack and stomp them. Except... if they don't attack, I'm just sitting there. Taking the center, scouting their composition and their tech etc...
Especially in ZvP against the stalker/colossus, but also ZvT, I prefer going to heavy roach style (with queens and infestors and corruptors), so I'm able to hit 200/200 rather quickly (I'm usually seem to about 30-40 food ahead of my opponent). So I get my tech structures. But both of us are just sitting there. I have 5base vs 3base, but I still am just sitting there.
So what ends up happening is at some point they attack (or I just get ansi and I attack stupidly). Either way, I lose everything. Then I make a shit-ton of ultralisks. So essentially, they have 70 seconds to kill as much of my stuff as possible. So I lose some expos or a significant chunk of my main (almost guaranteed to lose the ultralisk cavern). Then I have a bunch of ultralisks and either basetrade or kill their stuff.
I've had a surprising amount of games go this way. They do not feel like decisive victories even if I win. I can't imagine that this is a solid way to play at all. I simply can't figure out how to be aggressive without getting into these extremely dangerous situations where I almost lose the game.
Edit: Unfortunately I didn't save the replays... oh well, I'm sure I can come up with another soon.
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On October 11 2010 00:43 DoubleReed wrote:
I keep having issues about when to attack.
I try to do what people have said to do. Just drone and defend. If they attack, then you counterattack and stomp them. Except... if they don't attack, I'm just sitting there. Taking the center, scouting their composition and their tech etc...
Especially in ZvP against the stalker/colossus, but also ZvT, I prefer going to heavy roach style (with queens and infestors and corruptors), so I'm able to hit 200/200 rather quickly (I'm usually seem to about 30-40 food ahead of my opponent). So I get my tech structures. But both of us are just sitting there. I have 5base vs 3base, but I still am just sitting there.
So what ends up happening is at some point they attack (or I just get ansi and I attack stupidly). Either way, I lose everything. Then I make a shit-ton of ultralisks. So essentially, they have 70 seconds to kill as much of my stuff as possible. So I lose some expos or a significant chunk of my main (almost guaranteed to lose the ultralisk cavern). Then I have a bunch of ultralisks and either basetrade or kill their stuff.
I've had a surprising amount of games go this way. They do not feel like decisive victories even if I win. I can't imagine that this is a solid way to play at all. I simply can't figure out how to be aggressive without getting into these extremely dangerous situations where I almost lose the game.
Edit: Unfortunately I didn't save the replays... oh well, I'm sure I can come up with another soon.
If they are just sitting there waiting for a 200/200 death ball, just keep expanding. Remember, you don't have to attack their army just because they are moving out. If you have them out-based, but his maxed army is stronger than you, start dropping him or countering him when he moves out. If he decides to continue on with his attack you are going to do huge damage to his economy or production(depending on where you attack), and it's depending on how much you expanded, he's going to take a hell of a lot longer to clean up your tech/bases than you. The beauty of zerg in base trade situations is that if he goes straight to your main, you can just drop your tech at one of your other bases and it won't really matter if you lose your hive.
Conversely, if he halts his attack and comes back to defend against your counter or drop, you've hopefully done some damage, and can run away, or you can force a fight a long long way from your base which gives you ample time to reinforce.
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To DoubleReed, day[9] tells us that when we already have an extra base over our opponent, then at that point we can just make units. Keep scouting him out and finding his unit composition. Make sure that he doesn't expand, keep him from doing that with your army. And if he's not doing that and just sitting there making units, then just max out your army and keep spewing larvae. Remember to stock up on the larvae so can rebuild your army quickly when an engagement happens. So when your armies finally do collide, you may win, you may lose, probably lose if both of your armies are maxed out, but now with your army of larvae, you can remake all of your units very quickly, I usually make them as the battle is going on. He will have a very weak army and you can crush him. He can't make units nearly as fast as you can and so then you can push in. That at least works for me in the silver league XD. So basically just keep stocking up on larvae.
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If you have them out-based, but his maxed army is stronger than you, start dropping him or countering him when he moves out. If he decides to continue on with his attack you are going to do huge damage to his economy or production(depending on where you attack), and it's depending on how much you expanded, he's going to take a hell of a lot longer to clean up your tech/bases than you.
The only problem is: this is what I'm doing. You are encouraging me to basetrade and go into an 'almost lose' situation even though I should have a massive advantage. Even if I completely outmacro my opponent, the only way I can win is if I almost lose? Smart terrans will always try to force a basetrade because if I lose my corruptors/mutalisks then I lose.
I have basetraded every game that has come to this point. I don't want to get into an extremely high-risk situation if I have a commanding lead. This is really not what I wanted to hear. Is this really the way I'm supposed to play Zerg?
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Alright so Im a zerg thats just starting to ladder(Havent laddered enough to get to Diamond yet) I play around 1100 diamonds on ladder. I just played a protoss player who opened VRs and hurt my eco a bit. In the final push he had 3-5 collosi 3 vrs and gateway units. I had about 12 muta and roach hydra combo, but it wasnt near enough what should I have done to beat that????
Edit: I have also only played Z for about 2 weeks
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On October 09 2010 10:50 james11787 wrote:
I'm a Zerg player, and im having trouble moving up the leagues. I got placed in bronze bc i was just screwing around and playing with builds and different strats, but now im tryign to move up and its impossible. Im currently 100-98, number 1 in my bronze division, and i won 15 of my last 16 games. Idk what to do
If you're at 100-98, then your win ratio is around 50%; Battle.net considers you to be exactly where you should be. Theoretically, when you are playing against opponents of equal skill level to you, your win rate should always be at 50%.
Want to move up? Win more then you lose, and you'll eventually move to a better league. Don't try wacky strats that don't work, and don't cheese. Learn a couple of really solid, diamond-approved strats, and practice the hell out of them. This will easily take you to gold, and your mechanics will gradually improve over time.
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On October 11 2010 01:09 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +If you have them out-based, but his maxed army is stronger than you, start dropping him or countering him when he moves out. If he decides to continue on with his attack you are going to do huge damage to his economy or production(depending on where you attack), and it's depending on how much you expanded, he's going to take a hell of a lot longer to clean up your tech/bases than you. The only problem is: this is what I'm doing. You are encouraging me to basetrade and go into an 'almost lose' situation even though I should have a massive advantage. Even if I completely outmacro my opponent, the only way I can win is if I almost lose? Smart terrans will always try to force a basetrade because if I lose my corruptors/mutalisks then I lose. I have basetraded every game that has come to this point. I don't want to get into an extremely high-risk situation if I have a commanding lead. This is really not what I wanted to hear. Is this really the way I'm supposed to play Zerg?
If you have enough bases you should have an army of ultras rather than corruptor muta. If you have a bunch of ultras and the ability to renew that army, your opponent will find it very difficult to move out. Ultras with a surround kill just about everything. The exception to this is if he goes for BCs, then corruptors are your friend (though some upgraded ultras will still run him over because BCs aren't great at taking them out).
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If you have enough bases you should have an army of ultras rather than corruptor muta. If you have a bunch of ultras and the ability to renew that army, your opponent will find it very difficult to move out. Ultras with a surround kill just about everything. The exception to this is if he goes for BCs, then corruptors are your friend (though some upgraded ultras will still run him over because BCs aren't great at taking them out).
Okay. I have a bunch of ultralisks. I obviously can't attack his front because that's stupid. I could attack his back, but any smart terran would immediately basetrade me. Therefore I require corruptors/mutas.
Reread my post. The only reason you would ever get corruptor/muta is because a terran should always take a chance to basetrade if he can. Ultralisks can't win a basetrade against terran obviously.
Now take the instance where I wait for his attack or I attack his front. Either way, I lose all my stuff and then rebuild it. But then that gives a terran a period of time to do as much damage to my base as he can. And if I'm spawning units at all my different bases it easily becomes a clusterfuck. And if he does enough damage I may actually be forced to basetrade.
Breaking down the basics of what I'm saying: Basetrading does not sound like solid play to me (unless you play terran). When the game goes late I always seem to get into situations where I'm basetrading. How do I avoid this?
Edit: Maybe I should try getting some Brood Lords. Then I could force his army to engage me when I still have an army lead... certainly worth a shot...
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Has anyone else been running into this Raven harass build that seems somehow fashionable lately? I've hit three terrans now who've started harassing with about 3- 5 ravens then moving in with a MM ball. Those auto turrets are pretty good against muta / ling and ppd's totally negate hydra / muta anyways, compound that with the fact they last for seven years before they run out of energy it's actually more annoying then I had thought it'd be.
I've tried roach / hydra / infestor then tried muta ling bling infestor, then tried getting a stupid amount of infestors (actually seemed to work best out of these three, but I over FG'd and didn't have the energy I needed for the MM push). Anyways, was wondering if anyone had some ideas as to how to handle this. It seems like such a ridicilous build but it's kinda got me stumped.
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Hey everyone, I tried searching for something similar before posting, if there's another thread/post about this then I apologize
Anyway, I'm a fairly new Z player, low diamond player. I average 90-100APM, I'm still trying to work on Z mechanics in general but I'm really struggling with tumor creep spread.
What method do you guys have the most success with?
1.) I've tried using: camera saves (F5-F10) to the latest tumor
--The reason this doesn't work for me is that Ctrl+F5 seems unnatural to me and it breaks my concentration when I'm playing "quickly" and ultimately slows me down I think. And I don't want to change the MPQ for the risk of being banned, I'll probably avoid this until I can legally change it to Ctrl+F2
2.) I've tried using control groups for the latest tumor
--I use 1-3 army, 4 hatches, 5-7 queen, 9-0 for nydus. So that only leaves 8 for tumors and again that feels unnatural and breaks my concentration and slows me down whenever I have to rebind.
3.) I've tried just using manual spread, manually mousing over the latest spread.
--Apparently I just suck too bad to do this, I generally forget about it and I feel I lose valuable time when "mousing over".
Anyway, yes I know the answer is practice practice practice. I was just wanting to know if someone has find a more efficient method and offer any advice along the way.
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How do you defend marine / tank push, when you have just built a spire, and have nothing but lings? Do you cancel the spire, and make roach warren and baneling nest? I defended the first push REALLY easily. But 2 minutes later, he comes back with the same amount of units, and I had to use drones to defend. I defend, it, but like another 3 minutes he has an insane amount of marines and tanks and i had nothing and lost. What could I have done against this?
Another game I had, the guy tried to drop me but all his drops were so bad. I defended all of them, even fungal growthed like 3 medivacs full of hellions, but still, in the end he beat me and I wasn't even close. I tech'd to ultras quite fast because i was closing his drops easily, expanded, it was 4 base to 2, and when i have like 4 ultras, 40 lings, 6 infestors with full energy, he comes in with so much maruaders and thors that I had no chance. I have no clue how I lost, i had 2/3 ultras and lings, defended ALL the drops, lost like a queen total from them, and he still comes back and owns me.
I don't get it, I've had 3 games against terran and lost them all. My last 2 games were against protoss and it seems everything works out so smoothly and i win.
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Hey there, instead of using a new thread I'll post here... I need some help as to what I should have done in this match. Pardon the BM at the end as I was losing to thors all day in various different ways. I know I obviously made mistakes, but I just want a general idea of what I -should- have done... I thought I was demolishing him in macro(well I was, like 2x resources by the end)
I went by ultras being one of the main answers for thor... looking back I think the only other thing that might have done better was if I fast teched to broodlords and upgraded their armor. I'm not sure, just looking for help in general game choices.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/89041-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis#rd:undefined;markup
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Do any of you guys sometimes build several of the same tech buildings at different bases to be more resilient to having them sniped by terran drops?
I am seriously considering starting to get a spawning pool, baneling nest and spire at proxy locations in every game.
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On October 07 2010 11:54 MrBitter wrote:I've been 14 hatching a lot lately too, but I always, always, always go muta, and ZvP is hands down the matchup I have the most success in. 2 base muta is just sooo good.
Hi, may you share some successful replay please ?
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On October 11 2010 03:09 Clambo wrote:
Has anyone else been running into this Raven harass build that seems somehow fashionable lately? I've hit three terrans now who've started harassing with about 3- 5 ravens then moving in with a MM ball. Those auto turrets are pretty good against muta / ling and ppd's totally negate hydra / muta anyways, compound that with the fact they last for seven years before they run out of energy it's actually more annoying then I had thought it'd be.
I've tried roach / hydra / infestor then tried muta ling bling infestor, then tried getting a stupid amount of infestors (actually seemed to work best out of these three, but I over FG'd and didn't have the energy I needed for the MM push). Anyways, was wondering if anyone had some ideas as to how to handle this. It seems like such a ridicilous build but it's kinda got me stumped.
I've caught this build a couple of times, albeit not a whole lot. I've been going hydra/infestor and doing just fine with it. If he has lots of bio, mix in banes. I haven't lost to this build yet, and I'm playing around 1600 these days.
On October 11 2010 03:54 Rhakhar wrote:
Hey everyone, I tried searching for something similar before posting, if there's another thread/post about this then I apologize
Anyway, I'm a fairly new Z player, low diamond player. I average 90-100APM, I'm still trying to work on Z mechanics in general but I'm really struggling with tumor creep spread.
What method do you guys have the most success with?
1.) I've tried using: camera saves (F5-F10) to the latest tumor
--The reason this doesn't work for me is that Ctrl+F5 seems unnatural to me and it breaks my concentration when I'm playing "quickly" and ultimately slows me down I think. And I don't want to change the MPQ for the risk of being banned, I'll probably avoid this until I can legally change it to Ctrl+F2
2.) I've tried using control groups for the latest tumor
--I use 1-3 army, 4 hatches, 5-7 queen, 9-0 for nydus. So that only leaves 8 for tumors and again that feels unnatural and breaks my concentration and slows me down whenever I have to rebind.
3.) I've tried just using manual spread, manually mousing over the latest spread.
--Apparently I just suck too bad to do this, I generally forget about it and I feel I lose valuable time when "mousing over".
Anyway, yes I know the answer is practice practice practice. I was just wanting to know if someone has find a more efficient method and offer any advice along the way.
You nailed it: Practice, practice, practice. For what its worth, I just click the minimap to do my creep spreading. I'm pretty sure Artosis does this too. Make yourself spread creep after your queen injects. The timing works out beautifully.
On October 11 2010 04:02 tieya wrote:
How do you defend marine / tank push, when you have just built a spire, and have nothing but lings? Do you cancel the spire, and make roach warren and baneling nest? I defended the first push REALLY easily. But 2 minutes later, he comes back with the same amount of units, and I had to use drones to defend. I defend, it, but like another 3 minutes he has an insane amount of marines and tanks and i had nothing and lost. What could I have done against this?
Another game I had, the guy tried to drop me but all his drops were so bad. I defended all of them, even fungal growthed like 3 medivacs full of hellions, but still, in the end he beat me and I wasn't even close. I tech'd to ultras quite fast because i was closing his drops easily, expanded, it was 4 base to 2, and when i have like 4 ultras, 40 lings, 6 infestors with full energy, he comes in with so much maruaders and thors that I had no chance. I have no clue how I lost, i had 2/3 ultras and lings, defended ALL the drops, lost like a queen total from them, and he still comes back and owns me.
I don't get it, I've had 3 games against terran and lost them all. My last 2 games were against protoss and it seems everything works out so smoothly and i win.
For the marine/tank push - this is a scouting issue. You really want lings/blings and infestors for marine/tank. If for some reason you get caught with your pants down after going spire, send the mutas to his base and do everything you can to defend your front with lings/queens/spines and drones if you must.
Dealing with Thor heavy armies in the late game is really hard. I don't think there's a simple answer to it. You just have to out-expand the Terran player so that when you guys finally do trade armies, you can reinforce faster and in greater numbers.
On October 11 2010 07:18 Ghad wrote:
Do any of you guys sometimes build several of the same tech buildings at different bases to be more resilient to having them sniped by terran drops?
I am seriously considering starting to get a spawning pool, baneling nest and spire at proxy locations in every game.
lol. Don't do this. Position your overlords better, scout better, and just be more ready in general. This kind of thing will only come with lots and lots of practice.
On October 11 2010 07:41 hybride wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 11:54 MrBitter wrote:14 hatch into roach... I've been 14 hatching a lot lately too, but I always, always, always go muta, and ZvP is hands down the matchup I have the most success in. 2 base muta is just sooo good. Hi, may you share some successful replay please ?
I've been trying out a new build in ZvP lately, but I promise to upload the next game where I go muta.
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-_- Could someone please answer mine aswell??? ^
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On October 11 2010 01:36 Trowa789 wrote:
Alright so Im a zerg thats just starting to ladder(Havent laddered enough to get to Diamond yet) I play around 1100 diamonds on ladder. I just played a protoss player who opened VRs and hurt my eco a bit. In the final push he had 3-5 collosi 3 vrs and gateway units. I had about 12 muta and roach hydra combo, but it wasnt near enough what should I have done to beat that????
Edit: I have also only played Z for about 2 weeks
Really need a replay for this one...
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On October 11 2010 01:09 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +If you have them out-based, but his maxed army is stronger than you, start dropping him or countering him when he moves out. If he decides to continue on with his attack you are going to do huge damage to his economy or production(depending on where you attack), and it's depending on how much you expanded, he's going to take a hell of a lot longer to clean up your tech/bases than you. The only problem is: this is what I'm doing. You are encouraging me to basetrade and go into an 'almost lose' situation even though I should have a massive advantage. Even if I completely outmacro my opponent, the only way I can win is if I almost lose? Smart terrans will always try to force a basetrade because if I lose my corruptors/mutalisks then I lose. I have basetraded every game that has come to this point. I don't want to get into an extremely high-risk situation if I have a commanding lead. This is really not what I wanted to hear. Is this really the way I'm supposed to play Zerg?
Wanna post some of these replays? I don't know how you can have 2-3 more bases than your opponent and still have a basetrade situation be an "almost lose" situation. Maybe you just need to practice the proper way to play during those kinds of situations.
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On October 11 2010 06:51 luckyjj10 wrote:Hey there, instead of using a new thread I'll post here... I need some help as to what I should have done in this match. Pardon the BM at the end as I was losing to thors all day in various different ways. I know I obviously made mistakes, but I just want a general idea of what I -should- have done... I thought I was demolishing him in macro(well I was, like 2x resources by the end) I went by ultras being one of the main answers for thor... looking back I think the only other thing that might have done better was if I fast teched to broodlords and upgraded their armor. I'm not sure, just looking for help in general game choices. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/89041-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis#rd:undefined;markup
I didn't watch the replay, but it's been generally agreed upon that ultras don't really counter Thors anymore since the ultra splash was nerfed.
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EPT
