The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 182

On February 16 2012 21:51 halpimcat wrote:
How do you deal with the many varied openings terran can pull off in the first 7 minutes of the game? I just got owned by the 8 rine - 4 hellion drop in my base and I don't know how I could've handled it since I don't know how to see it coming. I saw the early hellions making out of a factory and thought, "no problem, probably just some early hellion harass." Prepared some spines in the front for defense and suddenly I have a bunch of marines in my base, and seconds later, hellions. How was I supposed to find out what he was doing quick enough so that i could prepare for it?

On February 16 2012 22:20 Kamelixs wrote:


Maybe not sure if it's the enteirly correct response, but if youre not able to fly in with a overlord to scout it, good oviespread around your base would make you be able to spot from where the drop is coming, and therefore react acordingly?

On February 16 2012 22:27 halpimcat wrote:

There were a couple of things I did wrong in the game i talked about, but even if I had good overlord spread there's no way I'd have enough defense in time to catch what I just lost to. The overlord scout wouldn't have helped, either. Against bad players it might work, but against anyone remotely competent it would just be a free overlord kill for the terran. He had his starport built in the middle of the base and built depots around his perimeter to check for any air that tried to scout. All I saw was the gas making in the beginning and the reactored factory.

The map was shattered temple if it helps, we were close air and he elevatored up into my base. Overlords around my base might have helped, but he used hellions to gain map control first so I wouldn't be able to see anything outside of my base.

On February 16 2012 23:11 Kamelixs wrote:

It's indeed a though strategy to both scout and deal with. Being a lowly diamond player myself I rarely encounter well executed versions, but the thing is that I feel like if Im just able to spot from where he is coming before he's entering my creep, it becomes alot easier to deal with. F.e reposition spines, move queens to defend, build additional lings so that you have a few before he goes into you mineral line and start wreaking havoc. Thats all the tips I've got :/

On February 16 2012 22:22 Tribuno wrote:
is there a specific BO/tutorial/video of "high economy" baneling bust? I saw DIMAGA win many game with this type of build out of 2 bases at IEM Kiev (if i remember correctly) and also Nestea using this vs Mvp in their last bo3 at GSL group stage.. Do u have any suggestion about gas timing, macro hatch timing, number of drones or something like that?

On February 17 2012 00:05 Olsson wrote:


- Macro hatch to be started when lair starts. You'll naturally be able to get one down the same time as lair if you have one drone mining on gas after speed after a hatch first. 15 Hatch 15 Pool 17 Extractor or 15 Hatch 17 Extractor 16 Pool I would recommend.

- Two base saturation. Four gases means 4x3 = 12 drones on gas. 16 minerals patches and you want optimal saturation which is two on each mineral patch 16x2=32. 12+32 =44. I would say stopping on 44-50 drones which is a two base saturation.

- Start double upgrades after lair goes down and start all your geysers after lair starts. Baneling nest after, get speed when lair finishes.

- Three hatches, three queens start massing lings to hold off incoming tank marine push. You can still chose not to do this by taking a third base. You can even go trough with the push, get a spire and a third behind it if you would fail. Use all your gas on banelings and attack when you think you have enough shit to beat his shit.

- Works against BOMBER TvZ (Macro CC), alot of hellions (if you see more than eight go trough with this build), late siege tech in favor of mass marines and starport play (like banshees) which would delay his army supply.

High Masters Z EU used this a few times on ladder is highly effective as terran rarely sees it coming.

On February 17 2012 00:06 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I'm wondering if the issues I've been having in ZvP have to do with the timing of my third base. I play the morrow-esque strategy of getting early melee/carapace, baneling speed, and ovie speed/drop. The upgrades delay my third base until about 50 supply. When a protoss forge fast expands we're neck and neck with workers. The drop play is very effective, especially since most players are expecting mutas instead of two-pronged ground attacks. However, once my harass is over and I'm taking my fourth base the protoss has a nice window to run in with a bunch of stalkers, zealots, and a couple colossus. I usually have enough corruptors to deal with the colossus, but stalker/zealot is pretty cost-effective against zergling baneling.

Now, many of my issues are rooted in injects. This style is very larva heavy so I need stellar injects to keep up. However, if the harass doesn't work out I'll be down in workers and army making the whole strategy feel like an all-in. I've been considering taking the third base earlier and focusing on workers, but then all the timings of the build go out the window and I'm kind of lost.

So yeah, keep the build as-is or go for the earlier third and delay tech?

On February 17 2012 01:39 SeinGalton wrote:


I'm only gold, so take what I say with some salt: I think the timing on your third is fine (off the top of my head, 55 food is typically somewhere between 7 - 8 min?). Just from my very limited experience, you need to tech quicker: I think the way to go, really, is to go with ultras. They'll immediately benefit from the upgrades, and will allow you take much more bases because they are more mobile than BL. additionally, ultras will nullify forcefields, allowing your banelings to roll through. I've been playing around with the Ling/Bling/Ultra/Infestor compositions, occasionally throwing in Hydras, and it's a lot more fun to play. If you don't absolutely have your mind set on BL, try going for an early hive and adding in Ultras!

On February 16 2012 21:51 halpimcat wrote:
How do you deal with the many varied openings terran can pull off in the first 7 minutes of the game? I just got owned by the 8 rine - 4 hellion drop in my base and I don't know how I could've handled it since I don't know how to see it coming. I saw the early hellions making out of a factory and thought, "no problem, probably just some early hellion harass." Prepared some spines in the front for defense and suddenly I have a bunch of marines in my base, and seconds later, hellions. How was I supposed to find out what he was doing quick enough so that i could prepare for it?

On February 17 2012 00:06 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I'm wondering if the issues I've been having in ZvP have to do with the timing of my third base. I play the morrow-esque strategy of getting early melee/carapace, baneling speed, and ovie speed/drop. The upgrades delay my third base until about 50 supply. When a protoss forge fast expands we're neck and neck with workers. The drop play is very effective, especially since most players are expecting mutas instead of two-pronged ground attacks. However, once my harass is over and I'm taking my fourth base the protoss has a nice window to run in with a bunch of stalkers, zealots, and a couple colossus. I usually have enough corruptors to deal with the colossus, but stalker/zealot is pretty cost-effective against zergling baneling.

Now, many of my issues are rooted in injects. This style is very larva heavy so I need stellar injects to keep up. However, if the harass doesn't work out I'll be down in workers and army making the whole strategy feel like an all-in. I've been considering taking the third base earlier and focusing on workers, but then all the timings of the build go out the window and I'm kind of lost.

So yeah, keep the build as-is or go for the earlier third and delay tech?

On February 17 2012 02:59 Servius_Fulvius wrote:


I think I'll pass, but thanks for the thoughts. I've played with ultras before and they tend to get stomped. Breaking forcefields is not enough benefit to compensate the supply and resource costs. I usually keep upgrading melee and carapace and settle with broodlords since the broodlings will also be 2/2 and 3/3. I have the spire anyway to defend against colossus. If they're going for a lot of blink stalkers then banelings aren't as cost-effective and I really need fungal growth to avoid super cost-effective protoss deathballs. This style is becoming more popular since my plat opponents have blink stalkers to defend against mutas anyway (my strat looks like a muta build). This also raises a concern because blink defense would really aid against the drop harasses, but that's an adjustment for another day because I haven't seen it yet.

Oh, and if the protoss goes sentry-heavy and throws down 10,000 forcefields the best option isn't to engage a bunch of melee forces or make ultras. I'm sure they have their place in zvp, but it's not something I'm looking into now.