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The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 146

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Poelie
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands53 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-06 22:02:42
January 06 2012 22:01 GMT
#2901
Any regular Zerg unit composition should be able to take out mass raven.

You shouldn't focus as much on hard countering as you should on forcing the usage of energy. I repeat, beating mass raven is not about getting unit X to counter Ravens because ravens don't have a real zerg hard counter. The key to beating them is forcing the usage of energy, not getting a specific unbeatable army composition.

EDIT:: Actually the key is to take them out while they're busy building up their Raven army.
Mid-master zerg player
Rednaxela_19
Profile Joined December 2010
United States150 Posts
January 06 2012 22:08 GMT
#2902
I don't know if this is a bad question for this thread, but, I haven't played for awhile, and being a former diamond player, I don't want to start playing again without knowing some up to date standard builds as of now. Preferably some safe builds I can use on any map size, and relatively easy to pull off. So what should I use vs each race? and what should be my goal for unit comp in the end game? Thanks for the help
Archile
Profile Joined June 2011
United States403 Posts
January 06 2012 23:31 GMT
#2903
question: i feel like roaches are really weak, even with infestors, or good upgrades, or burrow, yet i see so many pros just demolish with them

any suggestions on how to use roaches? thanks,
Archile
Just a bad player trying to be a little less bad
cocer
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden21 Posts
January 07 2012 00:08 GMT
#2904
On January 07 2012 07:08 Rednaxela_19 wrote:
I don't know if this is a bad question for this thread, but, I haven't played for awhile, and being a former diamond player, I don't want to start playing again without knowing some up to date standard builds as of now. Preferably some safe builds I can use on any map size, and relatively easy to pull off. So what should I use vs each race? and what should be my goal for unit comp in the end game? Thanks for the help


its a pretty weird question, you should just play and find out... but i do
15 pool 16 hatch vs protoss
15 hatch 15 pool vs terran
14 hatch or 14g/14p vs zerg

generally mutas has become more common in zvz, blueflames less common in tvz, mutas very good against protoss and protoss warp prism harass/attacks more common!

go play now :D
cocer
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden21 Posts
January 07 2012 00:13 GMT
#2905
On January 07 2012 08:31 Archile wrote:
question: i feel like roaches are really weak, even with infestors, or good upgrades, or burrow, yet i see so many pros just demolish with them

any suggestions on how to use roaches? thanks,
Archile


select all roaches, press a, click in your opponents base.

no but seriously. against zerg roaches are kind of the base-unit, they own zerglings etc so that should be no hard explaining
against protoss roaches are good at defending gateway pushes, and against certain unit compositions (like zealot archon) while they also are strong for timing attacks against third base etc.
against terran they are rarely used, mostly against blue flame hellions and mech
:D
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
January 07 2012 00:34 GMT
#2906
On January 07 2012 09:13 cocer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 08:31 Archile wrote:
question: i feel like roaches are really weak, even with infestors, or good upgrades, or burrow, yet i see so many pros just demolish with them

any suggestions on how to use roaches? thanks,
Archile


select all roaches, press a, click in your opponents base.

no but seriously. against zerg roaches are kind of the base-unit, they own zerglings etc so that should be no hard explaining
against protoss roaches are good at defending gateway pushes, and against certain unit compositions (like zealot archon) while they also are strong for timing attacks against third base etc.
against terran they are rarely used, mostly against blue flame hellions and mech
:D

Roach ling bane timing push against tank less aggressive macro terrans wins easy games.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Dexxy
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden45 Posts
January 07 2012 01:04 GMT
#2907
After a few months off I am now back to playing. My ZvT and ZvP is fine, but my ZvZ is absolutly horrible. If the game goes to the later stages I usually come up ahead via smart harassing, but my early game is really bad.

It feels to me that if I open 14/14, he open early hatch and outmacros me. I hatch first I get cheesed. I go gasless pool to expand I get shut down by early banelings.

So I am wondering: Is there a safe opening build that I can go, that I can change slightly dipending on what I scout? Right now I am totaly clueless. I am in Diamond league.
Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show. - IdrA
cocer
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden21 Posts
January 07 2012 01:09 GMT
#2908
On January 07 2012 10:04 Dexxy wrote:
After a few months off I am now back to playing. My ZvT and ZvP is fine, but my ZvZ is absolutly horrible. If the game goes to the later stages I usually come up ahead via smart harassing, but my early game is really bad.

It feels to me that if I open 14/14, he open early hatch and outmacros me. I hatch first I get cheesed. I go gasless pool to expand I get shut down by early banelings.

So I am wondering: Is there a safe opening build that I can go, that I can change slightly dipending on what I scout? Right now I am totaly clueless. I am in Diamond league.


what you are describing seems like standard zvz ^^ but i guess 14/14 is the safest all-round build, if you see a FE you can just expand right after queen/lings/speed and you will be fine
Archile
Profile Joined June 2011
United States403 Posts
January 07 2012 02:16 GMT
#2909
On January 07 2012 09:13 cocer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 08:31 Archile wrote:
question: i feel like roaches are really weak, even with infestors, or good upgrades, or burrow, yet i see so many pros just demolish with them

any suggestions on how to use roaches? thanks,
Archile


select all roaches, press a, click in your opponents base.

no but seriously. against zerg roaches are kind of the base-unit, they own zerglings etc so that should be no hard explaining
against protoss roaches are good at defending gateway pushes, and against certain unit compositions (like zealot archon) while they also are strong for timing attacks against third base etc.
against terran they are rarely used, mostly against blue flame hellions and mech
:D


Thanks, i forgot to say i was just looking for ZvP (was kind of in a rush)
but the info for all the matchups was useful nonetheless

thanks so much,
Archile
Just a bad player trying to be a little less bad
Macpo
Profile Joined September 2010
453 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 08:03:38
January 07 2012 07:59 GMT
#2910
On January 07 2012 07:08 Rednaxela_19 wrote:
I don't know if this is a bad question for this thread, but, I haven't played for awhile, and being a former diamond player, I don't want to start playing again without knowing some up to date standard builds as of now. Preferably some safe builds I can use on any map size, and relatively easy to pull off. So what should I use vs each race? and what should be my goal for unit comp in the end game? Thanks for the help


Certainly not a bad question!

- In Z v Z, the most simple to start with would probably be 14 gas 14 pool; then depending on what does the opponent, speedling expand or baneling bust him.
- in Z v T, 15 hatch 15 pool, and then either try to defend against helions with queens / zerglings/ spines; or if you don't like it, just build a roach warren at around 27, and make a bunch of roaches against helions.
- in Z v P, this is where I would hesitate the most. 14 gas / 14 pool is better against gateway expands, but it puts you a bit behind against forge fast expand protosses. against FFE, a 11 pool 18 hatch, or a 14 pool 16 hatch is probably better, (but you may have a bit of difficulty against people doing gateway expand and putting a bit of pressure at the very beginning). Then if you want something straight forward, you can go for three bases roach pushes, at around min 10. You can have a look at stephano's ZvP for more detailed examples
"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze
Megaman_X
Profile Joined October 2011
United States164 Posts
January 07 2012 13:25 GMT
#2911
On January 07 2012 03:59 derpinator wrote:
I understand you should out macro the terran because he invests so much in tech and you can contain him on 2 bases. The idea to force him to use the energy of ravens before he gets to much of them is a good one. However I still wouldnt know what kind of units I should make. It feels like that when terran reaches a certain critical mass of ravens im unable to turn the tide and proceed to lose the game. This seems like a gimmick strat and I want to know how to handle it.

he's spending too much gas on ravens so he's probably not making tanks. overrun his base with mass speedlings/banelings and tech to infestors. split the infestors so u minimize splash from the seeker missiles while u fungal the ravens to death. (or neural if terran splits ravens too). you should be able to contain terran to a small number of bases and eventually win.
jkimnw
Profile Joined December 2010
United States15 Posts
January 07 2012 16:46 GMT
#2912
What's the rough timing for a dt rush on 1 base?
arena_say_what
Profile Joined June 2011
122 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 20:28:03
January 07 2012 16:52 GMT
#2913
I have a hard time knowing when to make overlords after the 15/18 supply. In every matchup from doing 12pool/19hatch, 14pool/16hatch, 15hatch/14pool I end up making overlords at different supplys and it's really fucking up my droning and general timing. It especially hurts me in zvp when mass FFE gateway pushes start comming at 8-9mins. What are the best times to make overlords? How long do you keep making 1 overlord at a time and when do you start making more than 1 at a time?
kaluro
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands760 Posts
January 07 2012 17:04 GMT
#2914
On January 08 2012 01:46 jkimnw wrote:
What's the rough timing for a dt rush on 1 base?


7:15
www.twitch.tv/kaluroo - 720p60fps - Remember the name! - Don't do your best, do whatever it takes.
Macpo
Profile Joined September 2010
453 Posts
January 07 2012 17:08 GMT
#2915
On January 08 2012 01:52 arena_say_what wrote:
I have a hard time knowing when to make overlords after the 15/18 supply. In every matchup from doing 12pool/19hatch, 14pool/15hatch, 15hatch/14pool I end up making overlords at different supplys and it's really fucking up my droning and general timing. It especially hurts me in zvp when mass FFE gateway pushes start comming at 8-9mins. What are the best times to make overlords? How long do you keep making 1 overlord at a time and when do you start making more than 1 at a time?


it's good to make overlord after you injected, as they will pop at the same time as your larvae, i.e. when you need more space. Personally, I make overlords 1 by 1 until 44 food, then 2 by 2 until around 80; then 4 by 4 (when you start massing army). but that's just me, I am not sure it's optimal at all.
"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze
Kluey
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada1197 Posts
January 07 2012 22:14 GMT
#2916
1 base blink. How do you stop it? I'm a Protoss player and just wondering when I should actually pull back and what to transition into.

3 gate blink, expand and add 4 gate more or less.
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
January 07 2012 22:49 GMT
#2917
^ It's an all-in. If you do enough damage, like kill some drones or force a million spines, you might be able to go back and expand if he doesn't outright kill you with mass ling/roach, but that's about it.

To stop it, mass ling/roach.

he's spending too much gas on ravens so he's probably not making tanks. overrun his base with mass speedlings/banelings and tech to infestors. split the infestors so u minimize splash from the seeker missiles while u fungal the ravens to death. (or neural if terran splits ravens too). you should be able to contain terran to a small number of bases and eventually win.


I disagree with this. The only all-in that's really useful is if they are meching (siege tanks, thors, etc) and rush a fast third, to which you can do a really strong 2 base speedroach/speedbane all-in and overrun them if they tech too hard, but otherwise just make zero units, max out to 75 drones on 3 bases real quick, and then just go ling/bane/muta. Raven players generally turtle hard, and there isn't much you can do to stop that. So just macro up yourself, and get BL/Infestor eventually. Mutas can do okay too before he gets a mass of ravens out.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Chinesewonder
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada354 Posts
January 08 2012 10:16 GMT
#2918
I need help so bad in ZvT. I'm in low masters and I have no idea how to deal with hellions. Literally every game I lose to 8 hellions which just run past my spines and kill everything. Even if I don't die to it, most terrans just follow it up with a tank push and I lose. Do I just need more spines and more queens? I usually get about 1 extra queen and 2 spines + evo chamber to block, but I just don't know what to do. Also when do I want to get my 3rd? I feel if I want till I get mutas to retake map control, its just so late as most terrans are already building their third in some cases. Please help, I just don't know what to do.
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
January 08 2012 10:46 GMT
#2919
On January 08 2012 19:16 Chinesewonder wrote:
I need help so bad in ZvT. I'm in low masters and I have no idea how to deal with hellions. Literally every game I lose to 8 hellions which just run past my spines and kill everything. Even if I don't die to it, most terrans just follow it up with a tank push and I lose. Do I just need more spines and more queens? I usually get about 1 extra queen and 2 spines + evo chamber to block, but I just don't know what to do. Also when do I want to get my 3rd? I feel if I want till I get mutas to retake map control, its just so late as most terrans are already building their third in some cases. Please help, I just don't know what to do.


The way I play ZvT is a very slightly modified aXa's ZvT build. I use 2 evo chambers and 2 spines to make a decent wall at my natural (1 spine w/ the evo chambers at the front, other spine near the mineral line where Hellions would have to go by to get into the main). As the build suggests, I make a fair amount of Speedlings. I keep them out of my base, and make sure to position a few so I'm prepared as soon as the Hellions get out onto the map. I like to try to trap the Hellions at my ramp by flanking them with Zerglings just as they try to enter. Queens + Spine +1/4 of Lings attacking from inside your base, 3/4 of Lings from the other side.

I find that I'm able to stuff most ~5-10 Hellion plays with or without Blue Flame, and usually come out ahead because I also have a macro hatch, 4 queens (3 for injects, 1 for creep - plus useful defense for when Banshees come out).

It's not the most economical/refined way of playing but once you have map control with your lings you can drone pretty freely while teching up to Lair for Infestor or Muta, and taking a third and fairly fast fourth.
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
Chinesewonder
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada354 Posts
January 08 2012 10:50 GMT
#2920
On January 08 2012 19:46 yakitate304 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 19:16 Chinesewonder wrote:
I need help so bad in ZvT. I'm in low masters and I have no idea how to deal with hellions. Literally every game I lose to 8 hellions which just run past my spines and kill everything. Even if I don't die to it, most terrans just follow it up with a tank push and I lose. Do I just need more spines and more queens? I usually get about 1 extra queen and 2 spines + evo chamber to block, but I just don't know what to do. Also when do I want to get my 3rd? I feel if I want till I get mutas to retake map control, its just so late as most terrans are already building their third in some cases. Please help, I just don't know what to do.


The way I play ZvT is a very slightly modified aXa's ZvT build. I use 2 evo chambers and 2 spines to make a decent wall at my natural (1 spine w/ the evo chambers at the front, other spine near the mineral line where Hellions would have to go by to get into the main). As the build suggests, I make a fair amount of Speedlings. I keep them out of my base, and make sure to position a few so I'm prepared as soon as the Hellions get out onto the map. I like to try to trap the Hellions at my ramp by flanking them with Zerglings just as they try to enter. Queens + Spine +1/4 of Lings attacking from inside your base, 3/4 of Lings from the other side.

I find that I'm able to stuff most ~5-10 Hellion plays with or without Blue Flame, and usually come out ahead because I also have a macro hatch, 4 queens (3 for injects, 1 for creep - plus useful defense for when Banshees come out).

It's not the most economical/refined way of playing but once you have map control with your lings you can drone pretty freely while teching up to Lair for Infestor or Muta, and taking a third and fairly fast fourth.


So you rely on catching the hellions with lings? Buildign that many lings early on would require a huge economy investment, and a good terran player should be able to micro his hellions away. I'm just lost because when the hellions just sit outside my base, I have no idea what they are doing. Banshees, tank push, I'm just really lost
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