EPTThanks for any advice!
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16811
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 144
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DarkBaneling
United States13 Posts
Thanks for any advice! http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16811 | ||
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Asolmanx
Italy141 Posts
On January 04 2012 06:45 Stalkman wrote: Platinum Zerg, quite competent at the other MU except vs. P. They take a 3rd and I lose, regardless of my army comp, upgrades, and number of bases. If they game ends before then I'm in good shape. It seems like I always find myself in these situations where there's nothing I can do to hurt their end game army composition. Is there any common mistake or something I just don't know about? In day 9's terms, this is giving me a lot of "chemicals". ^^ Basically what hyperiordreamer said You don't give enough info here for someone to help you. I would say it's an army composition problem, and maybe try to say something like try to gain as much time as possible to get to broodlord infestor, with a lot of spines, and maybe drops and runbys to keep him pinned as long as you can. But that's kinda guessing what could be wrong. Again, not enough info to tell for sure what the problem is | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On January 04 2012 05:09 HyperionDreamer wrote: This is almost exactly what I meant earlier on by getting out speed roaches with burrow to defend your third base. There are just way too many variations of 3 gate expand to take an early third against, generally they revolve around one power unit or one key upgrade on 2 bases, that takes advantage of the fact you only have hatchery tech units. (1-2 colossus, dt, stargate, blink, charge, etc....) I think I have a replay from sc2rep that shows this perfectly (it's not me playing, I was just browsing around there for some ZvP stuff and found this really well executed macro game that involved using speed roaches with burrow to hold a 2 base colossus timing while the third hatch is going up on shakuras), I'll PM it to you if I can find it - my replay folder is really really disorganized and this one is from the korean server so it'll be hard to find the right one. darkforce, I have a question for you about macro style in high level ZvP (mid-high masters NA). I often find myself with the standard roach hydra corruptor on 4 bases, maxed in food, and wanting to get to hive tech units to compete with P in late game. However I don't really know how to effectively trade down my roaches and hydras without immediately losing the game. Often I find myself attempting to engage protoss, trade down and reduce the colossus count so I can remax on infestor/corruptor/brood with a few ground units to fill out the army, but often I'm completely getting crushed and losing to the ensuing push where my units are trickling out of hatcheries and dying in small groups. How do you go about trading effectively with protoss and keeping their army manageable? This is what bugs me the most about ZvP, I often lose games that I'm 40+ food ahead in the midgame since I am shitty at attacking protoss and trying to keep them down. It's REALLY situational. Whatever you do, don't actually sac units in a frontal manner, because a smart Toss will know exactly what you're doing, and destroy you right away. What I try to do is kill my own roaches sometimes, or do drops/nydus (depending on map) to force him to come to me, which buys a lot of time. I always morph my broods near my third/4th/5th, because those are the important bases at that time. I lost a LOT of games by trying to sac small amounts of units, but then getting steamrolled right away before I decided experimenting. Nydus/drops are so good late game. Especially with burrow and/or cracklings. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On January 04 2012 07:06 DarkBaneling wrote: Anyone mind taking a look at this replay? Diamond ZvP on Shakuras. I do the 4:30 third, he goes ffe. I eventually lose a macro game to a stalker/collosi deathball after going roach/corrupter/broodlord. Some of my timings must be off because my ZvPs ALWAYS look like this and I almost never win. I have a hard time finding spots to get decent trades or deny their expos. Thanks for any advice! http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16811 Your drone count was really bad. You went speed first against FFE, which is really bad. It cuts into your early drone/queen count so much that you were behind in drones at around 6:45 or so, when you should be ahead by at least 5-10. At that point, you couldn't produce enough units to force him to delay his third. You never saturated your third base. As for the ending engagements, you need less roaches and more infestors. Also, while getting hive (get a second evo chamber) you should get +1 melee attack and +1 carapace on your spire so your BLs dont instantly die. Unless you plan on going roach/hydra corruptor the entire game, you do not need range attack lv3. You should instead (having the +1 attack finish as hive finishes) get +2 attack and +3 armor, so your Broodlings actually do damage. Make overseers and spines so you don't get pwned by DTs. You want around 10-12 BLs, 8+ Infestors, a few Corruptors if he has 5+ Colossi, and a few roaches. Once the P transitions into Mommaship/VRs/Colossus, you want 10+ Infestors, 12+ BLs, almost no roaches, rest Corruptors. I blanket fungal the army twice (2-4 fungals) then spam infested Terrans. You can delay the third (if you had droned properly and not gotten speed) with Roach/Ling up until 3 Immortals. Then you have to sit back and let him play passive (you should already have a 4th) and get your 5th base and tech to Broods. Spine up like crazy to delay his pre- Brood push once your 5th is done. | ||
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arena_say_what
122 Posts
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nicke10
Sweden114 Posts
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On January 04 2012 09:50 nicke10 wrote: How do you defend a 14/14 as hatch first if you don't wanna go roaches? Skip second queen and speed for banelings and a spine? 14/14 is the only thing that scares me right now. Yes. Do you want a replay of me doing it? A ZvZ on Tal' darim. | ||
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nicke10
Sweden114 Posts
On January 04 2012 10:34 Flonomenalz wrote: Yes. Do you want a replay of me doing it? A ZvZ on Tal' darim. Sure man, that's actually the hardest map for me.  | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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papereyes
48 Posts
http://drop.sc/84373 http://drop.sc/84372 If you could tell me what should have been done differently any help is appreciated Thank You!! | ||
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On January 04 2012 15:04 Fallians wrote: What are some effective ways to harass against protoss and terran (without mutas)? Bling Drops, Ling Drops, Roach Drops, Hydra Drops, 4festor hit squads, nydus worms filled with various zerg beings. Ultra drops, ect. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
On January 04 2012 15:04 Fallians wrote: What are some effective ways to harass against protoss and terran (without mutas)? God, my first reaction to this questions was: "Nothing" because that's how it feels these days. Zerg utterly blows at harassing - it's really quite sad, to be honest, that harassing as Zerg carries such a huge penalty in economy. On top of which we have so few decent/viable early/mid-game units that we're blind-countered all the time. It's a bit of a joke, really. That being said, it'd help to know your league because different things are effective at different levels. I have had luck with making a few roaches right off the bat and sending them to attack in a ZvT. I have often caught Terrans before they have enough bio/hellion to hold it. At the very least, you can kill a supply or two. Just make sure to drone behind it and it won't hurt you too much. You can baneling bust a Terran or a Protoss. You can try drops but I never found these to be cost-effective the way T and P turtle these days. You can threaten run-bys with speed lings; but usually Terran and Protoss are content to turtle in such a situation. You can try offensive nydus against a FFE Protoss. There are a lot of good replays of this out there, July ripped InControl a new one with this (if I recall correctly). You can do an infestor timing push against a FFE Protoss. This used to be quite strong but it has fallen out of favour for whatever reason. Most of our decent harass is at tier 2, which, unfortunately, means a lot of it is turned into an all-in. This totally sucks, but that's how Zerg is in SC2. You don't really have a lot of options, which is why most pros will sit back and macro like crazy in the hopes that they have enough shit to survive. | ||
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
On January 04 2012 15:04 Fallians wrote: What are some effective ways to harass against protoss and terran (without mutas)? A few damage-effective methods have been listed, but in all reality the majority of methods are gimmicks, and won't be enough to hold the push that comes to kill you. The two most reliable harass methods (that don't get turned into allin's) are burrowed infestors with infested terran+fungal combo (send 2 or so infestors, spam 4-5 IT's depending on energy, make sure to have enough for 2 fungals to hold the scv line in place for a couple seconds, then bail hard), burrowed ling/bane at an expo (make sure to burrow 1-2 lings with a couple banes, they clean up what the banes dont kill) and mutas. These are only the conventional wisdom though. Experiment with drops and nydus! See what situations it is good for, and which it is not, and who knows, maybe you'll break the metagame  | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
Im a plat zerg vs daimond toss. http://sc2rep.com/replays/(Z)Huriya_vs_(P)JoY/17087 | ||
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izual155
United States48 Posts
On January 04 2012 09:39 arena_say_what wrote: Is the infested terran bust in ZvP still viable? I remember seeing it in an MLG but don't remember who did it. Does anybody know the build order for it if it's still any good? i stil do that if i get toss on shattered temple so i can bank up lings to break down rocks an such, it is still quite powerful and depending how they play it out i usually win the thing to remember is to get roach infestor if they get archons an getting corrupters if they get colosssi | ||
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izual155
United States48 Posts
On January 03 2012 08:17 nicke10 wrote: How do I be aggresive as Zerg without being all in? I understand I will suffer economically but all races do that with aggression so how should a Zerg do it in ZvP and ZvT? In ZvT I'm thinking a DRG bust with roaches and banelings and take a third behind it while keeping the pressure until about half build time of the hatchery where you start to make drones for it so it can be fully saturated when it's finished. In ZvP vs 1 base: ling aggression to deny expansion into taking early thirds on maps that allows it or teching to something (drop, burrow roach attackk, mutas) vs FFE: I don't really know how to be aggresive here without all ins like nydus, hydra ling etc if you want to be aggressive against any race its hard and i think its easier to just defend there harassment and if you macro harder than your opponent you win ofcourse if you are the better player that is | ||
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izual155
United States48 Posts
On January 05 2012 00:45 izual155 wrote: if you want to be aggressive against any race its hard and i think its easier to just defend there harassment and if you macro harder than your opponent you win ofcourse if you are the better player that is oh ya against zerg just alternate drones an lings when your saturating a base and then when you see him moving out max on what your composition is thats what i do usually and it works flawlessly im in masters btw. agasinst other races its to hard to do so i dont | ||
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izual155
United States48 Posts
On December 31 2011 22:43 Ballistixz wrote: has anyone experimented with ultra/ling/infestor in ZvT in the late game? how good/bad is it? i use to play with the style abit before the fungal/NP nerf on infestors but that was awhile ago at a top diamond level. i want to know if its viable at higher levels of play now. is it easy to transition into this after mutas or is it to gas heavy? many reponses i get from ppl are "lol ultras suck" or "make ultras if you want to throw away the game and lose" but in thoery i honestly dont see any viable way for terrans to deal with ultras if they have been trying to deal with mutas all game long. ultras also benefit from any melee upgrades that your ling/banes were getting mid game. so for all you high masters/GMs out there, how viable do you think ultras are in ZvT if there backed up with infestor, banes, lings? its something ive been really wanting to try out again since it worked so well for me in the past, but i want to get others opinions on it since i only play at a diamond level. also ZvZ...... this match up has always been my worse by far. it always seems like a coin flip match up for me. but this is mainly because i dont have any real solid builds for this match up. if i go hatch first i usually get ling bling all ined. if i go pool and gass first i loose because my opponent went hatch first and masses units for a all in. no matter what i do in this match up i am either getting all inned or im the one doing the all in to the opponent. any good solid eco/macro friend builds for this match up? im really tired of the all-in random games this match up brings for me. basically all i need is some solid builds and general rule of thumb for this match up. ultra ling infestor is so good in zvt i use it all the time just defend drops with lings an then spread out infestors with lings to kil medivacs, it works better for mech cause you just NP there thors an such i use banes to just a few to get the marines or hellions in zvz i just 11pool 18 hatch defends against 6pools an 7pools i see them comming with an ov an then i throw down spine and make lings an its instant win. i do 11pool 18hatch into spanishiwa iv gotten really reallly good at it so it works well for me against someone going random i 11pool 18 hatch as well cause its so safe. i would rather be safe then to auto lose to like an 1/1/1 from terran with banshees or 7pool from zerg or dt expand from toss or cannon rush you know? btw np works really good against mech even with tanks you just np them an let your units kill everything else | ||
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izual155
United States48 Posts
On January 01 2012 04:59 Lebzetu wrote: How do you hatch first on ZvZ? If you dont go roaches, he just goes banelings. If you go banelings, he just abuses his earlier speed and goes to your mineral line. If you go pure lings, you die to lack of speed. Is it just a 14/14 map or is 15hatch a possibility? if you do a 16 hatch 15 pool your lings comeout right when his lings might be comming to your base depending on the map size so in big maps its work it but i still find 11pool 18 hatch better cause you can shut down 7pools an 6pool allins i do this into spanishiwa with extra queens an spines an lings its hes going ling bane or allin lings or roaches | ||
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