|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On November 06 2011 17:59 nanoscorp wrote:
I like using a hatchery at the bottom of the ramp, spine+queen between that and the natural hatch, 2nd spine on the far corner with an evo chamber behind the minerals. If you know the hellions are coming you can use queens to block spaces as wide as a single ramp. Another option is 3-4 queens total with one spine, aggressively pushing creep wherever possible, using queens and speedlings on creep to fight the hellions. Some hellion pressure is designed to just limit creep spread, so be ready to cancel tumors if you're spreading them without cover from a spine or part of your army. If it's lots of blue-flame or double-reactored hellions I think you need to have scouted it and gone for roaches before he hits though. As emergency measures (like a push before spire finishes maybe) you can throw up a hellion-tight wall of evo chambers and spines, since hellions alone are pretty bad at destroying buildings. Hm, interesting! When-ish do you drop the hatchery? As soon as you know it's coming, or when you see the hellions moving down? I mean unlike the spines, i assume you -could- afford to drop it later than the rest.
|
How to deal with Protoss going 3gate then expo?
What they do is build 3 gates asap then chronoboost out zealots.
I usually scout the 3 chrono'ed gates, so i know that it's coming, but I find myself unable to find a proper response.
First zealot arrives at my base when my expo (going 14gas 14pool) isnt even done yet.
I have to waste all my larvae on lings which die quite easiely to zealots.
I usually can hold this off just barely (if at all) and am severely behind in economy after this.
Their first 2base-push (usually with stalkers or even imortals) then kills me outright.
|
@Junghansmega - High Plat Z here and have difficulty with this aswell. There just isn't enough time to get roaches out so have time defend with lings. Any help here is apprechiated 
|
Either of you 2 have specific replays? A typical 3 gate sentry expand doesn't really chrono the gateways? Do you mean some build involving 3 gates with chronoed zlots before a cyber core?
|
I was going to start a thread on the topic of hatcheries vs queens but thought it was a bit too theorycraft so decided to ask here first...
For 150 minerals you get a queen which costs 2 supply and allows injects and creep spread and maybe transfuse which would be great early game but you shouldnt really have the energy for it. A hatch costs 300 minerals and gives you 2 supply, it also generates larvae (as well as being another target for injects) and gives a big chunk of creep that can't be killed by a scan and a handful of marines etc like creep tumours but doesn't advance very far. The other thing hatcheries have going for them is their size which is very good for restricting movement along certain lanes. My question therefore is, is it worth going fastish 5 hatch off say 3 bases for the increased creep and defensive positioning so that come the mid game your production capacity is more easily adapted to your increased economy. Similar to the dilemma of 5rax+1tech vs 3rax+1tech+2reactor
|
I have been thinking the same thing! I overmake hatcheries, getting a 4th hatch as macro hatch on 3 base. Then use queens to creep spread until I have enough drones that I can use larva spawned from all those hatcheries.
Its very beneficial I find.
|
On November 07 2011 02:46 BBQSAC wrote:
I was going to start a thread on the topic of hatcheries vs queens but thought it was a bit too theorycraft so decided to ask here first...
My question therefore is, is it worth going fastish 5 hatch off say 3 bases for the increased creep and defensive positioning so that come the mid game your production capacity is more easily adapted to your increased economy.
No, imo. A queen gives on average 1 larvae every 10 seconds where as a hatch gives 1 larvae every 15 seconds. The queen also builds faster and costs half as much (and less if you include the drone). Basically queens are much more cost effective, so you may as well match their numbers to hatch numbers so you aren't unnecessarily sinking money on inefficient production earlier on.
|
Wanna ask you guys, how do you react to a protoss who places like at least 7 cannons on the front of his natural? The only way I can think of is drops.. but it would be quite risky to drop as he would warp in stalkers to take them down
|
On November 07 2011 20:54 Tristanity wrote:
Wanna ask you guys, how do you react to a protoss who places like at least 7 cannons on the front of his natural? The only way I can think of is drops.. but it would be quite risky to drop as he would warp in stalkers to take them down
Giggle madly and go greedy on econ. He's dropped like 1000 minerals on cannons. Make sure I'm safe to DTs/stargate and econ up. Fight like mad to prevent him from getting his third - at that point, you should have the econ lead to win any battle.
It'll take toss a damn long time to max off 2 bases, particularly if they start with 7 cannons.
-Cross
|
hi a couple of questions that i would be delighted to have answered. versus terran I follow mr bitters method of droning till 8 mins then making all units to survive pushes. Then when i get mutas i can distract him with these to have a massive 2nd surge of drones.
however my problem is against forge fast expand with no stargate shenanigans to follow, e.g. collosus deathball, after i stop making drones so i dont die to his first push I never feel safe at all later in the game and never find myself confident enough to do a second round of droning. Maybe i am stopping droning too early. I am sorry for no replays but i just wanted peoples own opinions on against 2 base protoss ground army at what point they stop droning, and if they redrone later at any point.
also when playing versus collosi what time do you put your spire up for corrupters, as I assume it helps greatly to already have the spire by the time collosi appear. And finally I don't want to overmake corrupters, does anybody have a system of for example make X corrupters for every collosus he has?
lastly versus terran what time does cloak finish for cloaked banshee (off of one base)?
also how do people deal with enemy going muta in ZvZ in the scenario that hes sunkened up so much I dont think i could kill him, would it just be roach hydra?
|
What's the best composition against chargelot, immortal archon? I usually go roach/ling in ZvP but obv this composition doesn't work against it. Is roach/infestor or roach/hydra better against it?
|
In my opinion, roach infestors are definitely better here than hydras roaches, as chargelots and archons will easily deal with your hydras (plus the usual advantage, i.e. it's hard to punish toss with slow hydras, if he decides to transition to colossi, you are more exposed if you went hydras/roaches, etc.).
Against pure zealot archon, pure roach, or infestor roaches is fine. with additional immortals things will be tougher. So in small numbers you should be fine (try to target fire immortals if you can), but as game goes on, I would recommend transitioning to broodlords .
|
On November 08 2011 15:57 HelloSon wrote:
What's the best composition against chargelot, immortal archon? I usually go roach/ling in ZvP but obv this composition doesn't work against it. Is roach/infestor or roach/hydra better against it?
I use roach, baneling, infestor to combat this. The infestors fugal the zealots and hold them still for the Baneling / Roach combination to do the maximum damage. Once the zealots are dead, the archons fall easily. Even if the infestors die to feedback it's not the end of the world, as they are mainly there to help deal with the chragelots, and roaches are tough enough to march to his base and start tearing shit apart.. If he chooses to storm your roaches instead, that's even better for you. Kite and kill the zealots, then kill any templar / archons remaining, and your infestors should still be alive unless you fucked up bad. It's definitely micro intensive, but if you can make him waste energy on his templar forcing storms, you're golden. Just make sure you have burrow + tunneling claws to heal roaches quickly from storm damage. If he doesn't have sufficent templar, he pretty much auto loses to the above combination.
Roach hydra works fairly well too until he gets to storm. You need to scout for his templar archives vigilantly for storm research, if you see a chrono on it, either attack right away or stop building hydras, but try your hardest to fight on creep, as hydras and aren't terribly fast.
|
On November 08 2011 02:37 ThePianoDentist wrote:
hi a couple of questions that i would be delighted to have answered. versus terran I follow mr bitters method of droning till 8 mins then making all units to survive pushes. Then when i get mutas i can distract him with these to have a massive 2nd surge of drones.
however my problem is against forge fast expand with no stargate shenanigans to follow, e.g. collosus deathball, after i stop making drones so i dont die to his first push I never feel safe at all later in the game and never find myself confident enough to do a second round of droning. Maybe i am stopping droning too early. I am sorry for no replays but i just wanted peoples own opinions on against 2 base protoss ground army at what point they stop droning, and if they redrone later at any point.
also when playing versus collosi what time do you put your spire up for corrupters, as I assume it helps greatly to already have the spire by the time collosi appear. And finally I don't want to overmake corrupters, does anybody have a system of for example make X corrupters for every collosus he has?
lastly versus terran what time does cloak finish for cloaked banshee (off of one base)?
also how do people deal with enemy going muta in ZvZ in the scenario that hes sunkened up so much I dont think i could kill him, would it just be roach hydra?
I hate ZvP with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns. ZvZ is boring as fuck but ZvP is, for me, the most frustrating match up we have. I fucking hate Protoss bullshit.
I struggle with a different part of the match than you mention, I can't wrap my head around the giant ball of doom that people will happily prance around with when they've maxed out. That being said, I can manage to get there, and usually with a booming economy, so for what it's worth this is what I do:
If I manage to catch wind of an imminent push, I stop droning like you do, and deal with that threat. If I utterly crush it, I will head toward their base to keep them defensive while I power out more drones. I'll leave a scout in their face so I have an idea of how much time I have. While I drone up I also try to get a look with overseers/overlords/changeling or whatever I can. It's important to scout here.
If I don't crush the push but hold it off enough for them to turn tail, I will keep making an army but throw in some drones here and there, just to be safe. I don't want to overdrone and be left with a weak force when they come back with their higher tech units (which they usually do if the battle is close).
I will throw down a spire as soon as I scout a robotics bay. Unfortunately, people are good at hiding their tech, so this is sometimes I problem. Best advice I got on this forum is to just be relentless with your scouting - especially vs. Protoss, they hide shit everywhere. You see the robo bay, drop a spire. If I recall, I've heard numbers thrown around such as 3 or 4 corruptors per collosus. If they have a ball of 5ish, you want 15 to 20 corruptors... although that's from back when the colossus stalker deathball was considered the worst thing ever. 20 seems like way too much to me, especially since they're useless after the fact. I'm sure someone else will have the ideal answer here.
As for Terran banshees, I'm not sure of a specific time. You can probably add it up with the units and building times. I personally try to scout it (it's one of the easier builds to scout) and/or react cautiously when I see only a few marines poking around their ramp after 4-5 mins.
|
On November 08 2011 15:57 HelloSon wrote:
What's the best composition against chargelot, immortal archon? I usually go roach/ling in ZvP but obv this composition doesn't work against it. Is roach/infestor or roach/hydra better against it?
Against Zealot/archon, NP archon deal pretty well against zealot with Roaches as Meatshield
But who research NP those days ?
|
(Help plz, for masters zvz)
I Had a thread regarding Pool/hatch chicken, and how far can you go to try to get ahead before it actually hurts you. However, I was not able to get my question answered to the detail I wanted. Mostly because, I feel like many zergs dont practice this enough. Or not find themselves in the situation?
How far can you go? Here is a recent game where I went FE FE then normal game when the other zerg went hatch first. http://drop.sc/54427
|
On November 08 2011 19:47 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 15:57 HelloSon wrote:
What's the best composition against chargelot, immortal archon? I usually go roach/ling in ZvP but obv this composition doesn't work against it. Is roach/infestor or roach/hydra better against it? Against Zealot/archon, NP archon deal pretty well against zealot with Roaches as Meatshield But who research NP those days ?
Roach/Hydra should do fine. Even better if you can get a few infestors with some fungals. Don't see this as that tough a composition to deal with, unless they get storm then it starts to really suck.
|
Here is the replay. Not a 3gate but the same basic build. Plz help i just don't know how to deal with this effectively!
HOW DO YOU POST REPLAYS lol. i have it up but i wont work :/
|
vs zealot archon I like roaches with good upgrades and roaches with infestors, roaches outrange both of those units so infestors make those units do 0 damage to your roaches for 6 seconds which is pretty huge, also vs that composition is one of the few times it benefits you to fight in a choke as zerg. Archons get a little more splash but zealots get ruined so you end up ahead.
VS Toss you just need to drone a lot more, you will still die to some dumb timings but if you fight something off no matter how close just drone a shitload and drop a macro hatch and you should have the production to fight them off if they attack again soon.
|
On November 07 2011 02:46 BBQSAC wrote:
I was going to start a thread on the topic of hatcheries vs queens but thought it was a bit too theorycraft so decided to ask here first...
For 150 minerals you get a queen which costs 2 supply and allows injects and creep spread and maybe transfuse which would be great early game but you shouldnt really have the energy for it. A hatch costs 300 minerals and gives you 2 supply, it also generates larvae (as well as being another target for injects) and gives a big chunk of creep that can't be killed by a scan and a handful of marines etc like creep tumours but doesn't advance very far. The other thing hatcheries have going for them is their size which is very good for restricting movement along certain lanes. My question therefore is, is it worth going fastish 5 hatch off say 3 bases for the increased creep and defensive positioning so that come the mid game your production capacity is more easily adapted to your increased economy. Similar to the dilemma of 5rax+1tech vs 3rax+1tech+2reactor
Don't forget that queens are quite good at helping to fend off certain early game aggression strats. Without those queens, in a lot of cases you'd have to make a couple extra units from larvae that could've otherwise been drones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
