Difference being that I usually have my wall down and a scout out and I wont raise it until the units are close, this way they walk up the ramp and get some extra hits before running - it works both ways my friend.

Invictus

Singapore2697 Posts

September 11 2010 13:29 GMT

#42

This might be able to solve early game scouting problems but tgeres a 90% chance it wont succeed.

Still, great find

DennyR

Germany379 Posts

September 11 2010 13:34 GMT

#43

Neat little trick, but I cant see this working. Maybe to slip lings in to scout, but you would need like 10-15 wich are way more expensive than an overlord.

This will not win you a game.

But still interesting stuff. Keep it up!

Rhaegar99

Australia1190 Posts

September 11 2010 13:48 GMT

#44

Maybe instead of going all-in with lings, how about using the initial lings in a standard build to note when production buildings are lifted to know when to scout up the ramp. This way you will know what addon is made, or the timings of units (hellions).

RoarMan

Canada745 Posts

September 11 2010 15:53 GMT

#45

Wow this is actually a really clever find! Thanks for sharing :DD

gerundium

Netherlands786 Posts

September 11 2010 15:59 GMT

#46

This trick can be optimized. put your lings at the natural and let one ling do the patrol trick, that way you cut down on travel time and reaction time by the terran.

Zekky

Switzerland22 Posts

September 11 2010 16:32 GMT

#47

This thread got me thinking about unit pathing, and interestingly sieged tanks have the same effect as buildings when a path is blocked off by them (all immobile objects must be treated the same way by the sc2 engine when calculating pathing).

If you block off a path with sieged tanks and the opposing player click-moves or a-moves behind them then the army of that player will be automatically routed around the tanks even if he cannot see them; you can effectively force an army to move in a certain way assuming he is click moving his army behind the blocking tanks (this was tested on Blistering Sands). Here are some pictures in case my explanation was unclear.

http://img101.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091118173.jpg/
Bit of a silly example, but this wall of tanks forces units to route round the watchtower

http://img255.imageshack.us/f/tankpathing.jpg/
The desired path of the light blue army is shown by the red arrow (intending to move to the point of the red arrow), however the green tank line causes the light blue army to be automatically routed around the xel'naga watch tower (as shown by the yellow line).

My apologies if this is already known.

Kyruel

United States91 Posts

September 11 2010 16:49 GMT

#48

i dont play terran so i have no idea but how often do terran lift off the buildings of their wall to switch addons is it like once every few games or a sure thing most games

StuBob

United States373 Posts

September 11 2010 16:54 GMT

#49

This is great!

SC2Phoenix

Canada2814 Posts

September 11 2010 17:03 GMT

#50

was messing around with this and turned it into an all in speedling build and went 3-1. Pretty sweet find.

Sanchez_

Australia40 Posts

September 11 2010 17:11 GMT

#51

This is an awesome idea. Cant wait to try out some ling attacks with this.

Kpyolysis32

553 Posts

September 11 2010 17:13 GMT

#52

On September 12 2010 01:32 Zekky wrote:
This thread got me thinking about unit pathing, and interestingly sieged tanks have the same effect as buildings when a path is blocked off by them (all immobile objects must be treated the same way by the sc2 engine when calculating pathing).

If you block off a path with sieged tanks and the opposing player click-moves or a-moves behind them then the army of that player will be automatically routed around the tanks even if he cannot see them; you can effectively force an army to move in a certain way assuming he is click moving his army behind the blocking tanks (this was tested on Blistering Sands). Here are some pictures in case my explanation was unclear.

http://img101.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091118173.jpg/
Bit of a silly example, but this wall of tanks forces units to route round the watchtower

http://img255.imageshack.us/f/tankpathing.jpg/
The desired path of the light blue army is shown by the red arrow (intending to move to the point of the red arrow), however the green tank line causes the light blue army to be automatically routed around the xel'naga watch tower (as shown by the yellow line).

My apologies if this is already known.

Can you do this with forcefields and auto-turrets as well?

RC_Fixer

United States21 Posts

September 11 2010 17:32 GMT

#53

This is the type of stuff BW Fanboys need to see, "Oh SC2 will never make it pro, no micro, too easy, noobish game" Well this game is in its infant stages and were discovering new things every so often to make the game so much more interesting. Like now ZvT Muta/Ling isnt just A-Attack mutas into the Terran Ball now you may want to keep a magic-box up against Thors, requiring micro. All while still macro'ing and then adding more to it now the patrol rush xD. This will allow us to constantly do things with our zerglings(which we always should be) that will be beneficial in the early game and late game.

Zarahtra

Iceland4053 Posts

September 11 2010 17:38 GMT

#54

On September 12 2010 01:49 Kyruel wrote:
i dont play terran so i have no idea but how often do terran lift off the buildings of their wall to switch addons is it like once every few games or a sure thing most games

Depends on the player. Many terrans don't feel that they need to use 2 big buildings for a wall and rather react if they see a bling bust coming. If thats the case, this will likely do nothing. If however the player uses 2 big buildings for the wall, at some timepoint he will move one big building out of the wall.
The only real timepoint I think this will help a lot is when a player uses 2 big buildings for the wall and is doing fx. hellion harass where the rax makes the fact's reactor and both buildings need to switch places. I think that window is big enough to get the slings in.

Nice catch tbh. That being said, I think this should be bug fixed, just like destructible rocks pathing when one side has destroyed em and the other hasn't seen it. I mean it's a nifty trick it really is, but I think the game engine shouldn't do the scouting for you.

Effect010

Germany89 Posts

September 11 2010 18:01 GMT

#55

there are so many hidden tricks in this game...one of the reasons why i think its the no.1 among rts...nice job!

spydR

Australia243 Posts

September 11 2010 18:06 GMT

#56

Damn oesis, this is an awesome find. I had a play around with it on maps without cliffs (take Steppes as an example). Naturally you can do it on any map - but without the cliff, you're doing it in vision of the T wall. I found a way around that though by using your logic and taking it a step further. Instead of patrolling to their base, you can patrol to an arbitrary point in space that satisfies two conditions:

-When the wall is BROKEN, a spot inside the main is closest to the patrol point by air
-When the wall is SOLID, a spot in the FoW is closest to the patrole point by air

end result is exactly the same, but you can be more precise about where your lings are hiding because you don't have to rely so much on the precise points of the map.

This lets you abuse the trick on maps without cliffs - example screenshot:

http://img215.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091203560.jpg/

cpw20

United Kingdom9 Posts

September 11 2010 18:19 GMT

#57

That's thinking outside the box!

GosuSheep

United States119 Posts

September 11 2010 18:20 GMT

#58

+1. This is a very clever use of the engine. I am quite impressed.

I imagine a lot of interesting tactics can branch from this. Keep up the good work!