|
I was a middling diamond player until i started 4gating almost every game
10 pylon/10 gate/13 gas/15 core
chrono warpgates 5 times
have a proxy ready in his base if possible, but if he is any good you'll have to have one halfway across the map, and have one warping in at his ramp as the fight starts so you can get sight and warp uphill.
If they don't scout it and tech even the slightest bit, they lose. If they do scout it correctly, I can make enough units and proxy pylons to either win outright or be aggressive enough that I gain an advantage. I can always retreat, warping in units along the way slowly ceding map control until I secure an expansion, throw down a forge, twilight, more gates and push again.. unless they are zerg ANDI feel I need a colossus.
I've chosen to not include my own replays for 3 reasons
1) I feel the 4gates you see the pros do speak for themselves.... All of my 4gate wins are not particularly impressive because there's at least one thing my opponent could've done better. Common mistakes: they waste stims as I FF and run away, make only stalkers which dies to stalker/zealot, or get crushed by FFs as roach/ling with bad micro.
2)When I lose, i have no problem examining my replays to find mistakes, usually a supply block while we're both microing but not fully engaging, so food never goes down... or blatant micro blunders....
3) who hasn't seen plenty of 4gating already? yawn.
I'm more interested in people successfully stopping a 4gate (especially as toss not 4gating). I suppose 3gate robo with excellent FFs at ramp should win, but i havent seen it happen. I'd be especially appreciative of any replays or VODs that show this. I've been watching GSL and haven't seen too much 4gating so I assume there's counters out there.. I did see a PvZ where the Z survived long enough to macro up but It seemed like cool was just the better player by a large margin... still the game was close.
Should I not be winning all my games? Does 4gate still work at 1200+ diamond, where the pros are at? I still lose games from imperfect fundamentals that i'm not up there.
|
Can you even support 4-Gateways at that point if you start with 10-Pylon, 10-Gate and not Chrono-boosting Probes? I would think you'd just get your ass supply blocked all the time and you'll be cutting Probes constantly, so the 4th gate doesn't seem particularly worthwhile, unless you're going all-in and depending on some pretty horrific damage to their base to keep you in the game. Just my feeling from doing 10-Gate builds.
|
I know a guy who 6 pools every game and is 1250+ Diamond, so I am pretty sure 4 gate will still work 
|
On September 09 2010 07:47 aRenaissance wrote:I know a guy who 6 pools every game and is 1250+ Diamond, so I am pretty sure 4 gate will still work Rofl xD, know his code so I can view his match history?
|
Sounds like you're just capitalizing off of good 4 gate aggression.. Good job 
A lot of players just fold after their 4 gate fails, they over commit to it or don't expand or transition at all.
|
I'm only a Plat toss, but doesn't 2 gate rush stop 4 gate every time?
|
On September 10 2010 03:51 Shadrak wrote:
I'm only a Plat toss, but doesn't 2 gate rush stop 4 gate every time?
Not necessarily. It depends upon base distance and how good the micro of the players are. I 2-gate a lot against 4-gaters and sometimes I'm pushed back.
|
I've been experimenting with 2-port banshee play, 4-gates are usually a free win for me. I can just research cloak while I guard my ramp with PDD.
|
Depends on your execution and unit composition
But yes, it will work as I have been taken out by 4 warpgates many times even with proper scouting
|
I'm an 800 rating zerg and I have a build that crushes 4 gate. ZvP is my best matchup with me winning about 85% lately. So no, 4 gate is not unstoppable.
|
The digama mass ling ---> ultra build is seemingly working for a lot of people at beating standard 4gate, i know its been working for me but im not diamond T_T (fucking bsods)
|
I wish everyone would 4gate me. Seems I get all of the 10% who don't spam 4gate 
|
As a protoss myself i see a very aggressive harrassing terran could stop a 4 gate quite easilly due to terrans excellent wall in possibilities and bios sheer domination over protoss gateway units. Say 2 port banshee to keep the toss in his base while holding your ramp with bio if he goes for the base trade.
But as to PvP, i am clueless really. If you eat a 4 gate and survive on forcefields to get colossus, then yes you've won if the 4 gater haven't expanded or teched or whatever. But i have folded myself many times vs 4 warpgate simply because everytime it catches me offguard with how fast the actual warptech comes if they save chrono boost for it. I mean i do scout it, i know its coming, but my own warpgate isnt even halfdone since i chrono boosted probes and that normally spells GG right there.
This is what makes PvP such a boring matchup, pretty much every PvP i play i get 4 gated, and if i hold and get my colossus i win, if not i lose. Or its 4 gate vs 4 gate, which turns into a stalemate untill someone gets 10 colossus and theres one huge battle and someone wins right then and there.
|
It's more fun once you learn to stop 4gates since you can do other stuff. Adel 1gate FEing and stopping a 5gate was sexy ^_^
|
Bunker and a reasonable MM force is sufficient, pulling SCVs off is perfectly fine too, as you are already so economically ahead.
|
4 gate is easy to stop as Zerg. Hydras rape all gw units...
|
On September 10 2010 04:20 Douillos wrote:
4 gate is easy to stop as Zerg. Hydras rape all gw units...
Zealots would like a word with you.
|
I have an answer to 4gaters every time in PvP and it's called DTs. Rushing out a DT against someone you know is 4 gating is GG because they have no detection to stop you. I usually have my DTs out right as they make their first push and I destroy their mineral line. If they go for a base race, I call in two more DTs to take out their army at my base. By that time, they can't call in reinforcements because I've taken out the pylons around their Warps and they shouldn't have enough minerals to do anything but Pylon spam.
|
yeah 4 gate is definitely not unstoppable. it's a strong yet easy to use strategy for sure though. Getting people to overreact to a 4 gate is one of my favorite things to do as well.
|
Check Day9 # 175, adel's 1gas FE stops HuK's 5gate push.
|
zealots will kill hydras, but only with charge, + standard ZvP is roaches + hydra so roaches take front-line and absorb damage while hydras sit in the back doing damage, this strat is also a great counter to 4 gate if you are able to get hydras before they do their major push. Fortunately, if they attack early, you should have roaches, and their early attacks should be pure zealots. If they see roaches and obviously respond by going double gassing stalkers, then by that time you should be building a hydra den if not already finished with a hydra den.
In general this is my zvp
Open speedlings ---> harass probes (i can usually get around 5-8 probes depending on if they have stalkers or how far away their army is from their base) this is a good move vs. 4 gate because if they go true 4 gate and arn't building more then 1 or 2 zealots if any (I have seen people do nothing before 4 gate attack)
depending on success of speedling attack FE (or quick hydras + FDE if i see 1 gate core) which obviously 1 gate core = void rays 90% of the time, either way it means they are going for tech which gives me at least ~7 minutes before they will try attacking with like 7-10 voids (depending on their skill usually) by that time i have enough hydras and possibly mutas
focus on roaches / hydras after single fast expand after expo is fully running, macro time 2 cycles of larvae = attack, keep pressuring basically, usually after the first like 3 attacks i get a win.
I play random so i am curious to hear the protoss counter to this strat. It just seems that roaches and hydras counter the entire spectrum of units they can really throw at you. W/ upgrades they are a viable endgame as well.
|
Sorry, but do you really know what you're talking about?
No competent toss will wait until they mass 7-10 voidrays, who are you trying to kid?
[edit] And what kind of a bronze league toss doesn't put a zealot to block the ramp?
|
On September 10 2010 05:12 LagT_T wrote:
Check Day9 # 175, adel's 1gas FE stops HuK's 5gate push.
Doesn't seem right.. Will have to go check it out as soon as I get home.
|
On September 10 2010 06:36 CanucksJC wrote:
No competent toss will wait until they mass 7-10 voidrays, who are you trying to kid?
Well, when they don't my queens end up dancing on their broken, fallen hulls, congratulating one another and exchanging transfusions.
|
HuK's 5gate push in that game is WAY WAY later than the 4gate talked about in the OP. (by like 2-3 minutes) The OP's build order will have warpgate research done about the same time as KotaOnCue's twilight council is finishing and he's only just starting the dark shrine. A DT rush will NOT arrive in time.
Day9 actaully covered this "all-in" version of the 4gate some time back, since people are referencing day9.
Learn your timings!
And 5-8 speedlings to harass probes? Are they not leaving a zealot to plug their ramp? 1 zealot shuts that counterattack down even in the midst of them attacking you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
