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Before you read on, this isn't going to be a whine thread, I'm not crying "IMBALANCE!", and I'm not a troll.
I'm a new Zerg player, (Platinum level Protoss) and I just simply cannot defeat Terran. I've tried everything- fast Roaches. Banelings. Hydralisks. Fast expanding. One base Mutalisk. I've even resorted to cheesing, Zergling rushing has failed me as well. I feel like my macro is great- I expand when I need to, I keep producing units, but they just eat away at my armies like nothing. I scout well, too.
With their scans, no matter my build, they always counter with Siege Tanks, or mass Marauder/Marine. And whenever I decimate a Terran army, I can never break through their Siege Tank'd wall. What can I do?
I can provide replays if anyone is interested.
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You could still hide tech by spewing creep with an overlord somewhere and building your tech there.
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On September 01 2010 13:45 protoss22 wrote:
You could still hide tech by spewing creep with an overlord somewhere and building your tech there.
I wish- I'm usually getting scanned before that point.
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I can almost bet the problem is missed injections and/or over/under droning. Take a look at your replays and see how much of the game you're ahead in both food count and worker count.
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The reason why you lose is that you think your macro is great and that you always react in the right way.
Trust me, it isn't.
Look at your mistakes and improve them, watch replays, and so on - what else should we tell you?
if everything you said was right, the only possibility left is, that terran is insanely imbalanced.
If you want some analysis post replays.
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If he gets tanks, throw some banelings in there. Playing zerg myself (only plat), it seems to me that with Terran you need to be a bit more picky about what units you make. You can't just force a build and expect it to work. You have to actually counter.
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You should provide a replay because it's hard to help you by speaking in a "general sense" at times. There can be many things that are incorrect with your play. For one it seems like mindset is incorrect. You've said you tried everything then just more or less stated units that are lair tech or lower. Builds don't revolve around getting X unit just out on the field. They revolve around creating an advantage, or at least staying on par, against what is standard modern play, while also being able to adapt to other things your opponent may be doing. You can't just really get a unit quickly and expect it to win you the game if it has no real reason for being out at that time in the first place. If it has nothing it really does well against or no niche in your plan whatsoever, it's not going to be effective.
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On September 01 2010 14:02 tofurocks wrote:
If he gets tanks, throw some banelings in there. Playing zerg myself (only plat), it seems to me that with Terran you need to be a bit more picky about what units you make. You can't just force a build and expect it to work. You have to actually counter.
They typical reason for T to get tanks is to kill banelings... =\.
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Osaka27172 Posts
Please include some replays, and add your own analysis of what you think you are doing right and wrong. It will help people give you better advice.
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Don't try to go out and win. 5 minutes. 10 minutes. You're not protoss.
Take bases, and defend his attacks. Shoot for 3-4 bases 200/200.
Destroy his army when it moves out. Get a good surround our at least a 2 prong flank. Then you power through him.
You're playing to get away with macro and defending. Harass with Mutas to keep him honest and make him spend money on defense. Size up his army and make a proper composition.
It's not your job to go out and win as Zerg. You take the map and out macro. Trying to 1 base/ 2 base rush them early is not going to win u the game.
GLHF
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I don't have a great terran matchup either, but having watched a lot of replays and improved the matchup slightly by rinsing out mass games over the weekend, I conclude that a good ZvT has the following principles:
--> Your aim is to take the game into a macro-heavy lategame situation. If you see an opportunity then you might be able to kill him off earlier, but your aim should nearly always be to take it to lategame where Zerg has more advantages over terran (ultralisks, mobility, unit switching, quick army production).
- You must scout well and react to what he does in the beginning - so so important, this usually means sacrificing an overlord and placing overlords in key positions to watch for drops and armies moving out. The first 10minutes of the game is "survival mode" for you - you need to counter him and kill his first push/harass without losing too many workers to at least enter the midgame on even footing.
- Once you have countered his early game push, you can build drones and get a strong economy - it will also help immensely if you can buy yourself some breathing room - harassing with mutalisks is a great way to do this and very popular in this matchup. The longer you can stall him from moving out the more drones you can make.
- In the midgame, you should aim to set yourself up with 2 fully saturated bases, with 3 hatcheries and 2 queens spawning lava and at least 1 queen for creep expansion. Creep expansion is essential - it helps you flank, engage quickly, makes your units more effective and helps you make maximum use of zerglings and banelings, both of which are very good against infantry. The more creep you spread earlier, the better. I'm using 3 queens (4 on desert oasis because its such a big map) earlygame - 1 especially to spread creep, its that important.
- Look for opportunities - things like zergling backstabs when he moves out, sneaky nydus worms in corners of his base, pooing creep over his expansion spots to delay them, burrowing zerglings there - these are all opportunities to make his life a bit harder, and due to the difficulty of the matchup you need to try to utilise them fully.
I know this is very general, but you need to get into the mindset of ZvT. I havn't gone onto unit compositions yet, I'll leave that to you to decide what works. You have to just accept that you will often need to go lategame 20minutes+ versus terran to win - once you've accepted that it's game on.
Surviving first push / getting strong midgame economy and production / harassing & stalling / setting up for lategame. Or fake an FE and as soon as his scout disappears put down a baneling nest and bust his ass =)
edit: I'd like to add two more....
- Find the killing ground - every map has at least some open areas that are good for flanking (some more than others...). You need to decide where you're going to kill his army when it comes out so you can set up and prepare in advance. That means spreading creep there and along other avenues where he might attack. Zerg units can be very efficient if they flank and are able to engage the right units quickly, so you need to make sure it happens.
- If you think he's doing something weird, but you're not sure, then make extra queens. It's worked well for me so far - queens are effective against hellions, drops, banshees and vikings. It doesn't hurt to have a few extra ones around.
There is much more to this matchup, but I hope this can be used as a foundation for improvement, which will not happen immediately, but it is steady. For me, I feel that if I become a strong earlygame scouter/defender, and lategame macro monster, then I can become strong in this matchup where others continue to cry.
GL
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Or fake an FE and as soon as his scout disappears put down a baneling nest and bust his ass =)
heh that's a good one. I never thought of doing that XD
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On September 01 2010 14:36 Swig wrote:Show nested quote + Or fake an FE and as soon as his scout disappears put down a baneling nest and bust his ass =)
heh that's a good one. I never thought of doing that XD
It may be worth doing it anyway if he's nearby. Once he's scouted your main, he moves to your expo (there may be a dance to try to put the expo down) - if you put the bling nest down as soon as you have 50 gas (after your ling speed upgrade of course). Then:
1) His scout will piss off - make some zerglings, when your first round of larva pops then cancel the hatchery and build more lings.
2) He will scout your main again - cancel the bling nest and you haven't lost much resources.
This is what I mean about looking for opportunities. They normally occur when the other player makes a mistake (e.g. forgets to scout, doesn't cover vision of his whole base, he moves out and leaves his depot wall open, he thinks you're massing muta when you only building 3 so he makes 2 thors and more marines, etc etc).
As a zerg you need to become a master opportunist and punish such mistakes severely. It is not a case of playing the matchup and using the same strat without opening your mind, you need to recognise an opportunity when you see one.
GLGL
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Well I have to confess being a little pissed, I provide some insight into the matchup that I feel is pretty valuable (although non-specific on build orders, unit compositions, etc it establishes the mindset of the matchup which i think is the foundation) - then the thread dies. GG
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On September 02 2010 16:22 Quizzms wrote:
Well I have to confess being a little pissed, I provide some insight into the matchup that I feel is pretty valuable (although non-specific on build orders, unit compositions, etc it establishes the mindset of the matchup which i think is the foundation) - then the thread dies. GG
I read your post and took a lot from it. Maybe you were the reason the thread died--answers solved.
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On September 01 2010 13:44 fabioisonfire wrote:
I feel like my macro is great-
This is losing you all of your games.
Lose your ego, all my 1000+ diamond friends are pretty terrible, myself included.
Practice more.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc270/danceswithdrinks/repsplz.gif)
