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I really need help with this matchup so if anyone wants to add me Ozx.728 if you want to run some games.
I have lost 6 ZvZ's in a row now so i'm down to ~750 point diamond now. I have been opening 14gas 14pool and going banelings into muta. I have no problem dealing with other baneling builds i'm pretty decent at that but when they go roaches I throw down an expo then i don't know what to do. The problem is they have 6 roaches on the ramp and i don't know if they are massing roaches or fast teching to spire or hydra or what ever. The thing is they could be doing anything, and from my point of view i can't possibly prepare for everything.
So if you have some advice or if you are confident in your ZvZ and want to help me practice then post/add me
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tech to lair and get overseer. You can handle any amount of roaches earlier than that with speedlings.
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They surrender full map control to you when they go roaches, use this to your advantage. Keep flashing your lings, right outside his ramp, make it so he can't forget they are there. He has to have a minimum number of roaches to threaten you so just power drones. Gas he spends on roaches is gas NOT on mutas so you will win the gas war when you get there. Just don't morph banelings and you'll come out ahead. You have to be careful though, if he does an allin roach attack (he doesn't tech just masses roaches and keeps them from you) he CAN steamroll you if you aren't prepared.
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On August 30 2010 06:16 Ozx wrote:
I really need help with this matchup so if anyone wants to add me Ozx.728 if you want to run some games.
I have lost 6 ZvZ's in a row now so i'm down to ~750 point diamond now. I have been opening 14gas 14pool and going banelings into muta. I have no problem dealing with other baneling builds i'm pretty decent at that but when they go roaches I throw down an expo then i don't know what to do. The problem is they have 6 roaches on the ramp and i don't know if they are massing roaches or fast teching to spire or hydra or what ever. The thing is they could be doing anything, and from my point of view i can't possibly prepare for everything.
So if you have some advice or if you are confident in your ZvZ and want to help me practice then post/add me
That is a very good problem.
Personally I would say, once you have your expo then just defend, and the best way to do that is roach speed and mass roach, also get 2 queens per base as queens (especially with transfuse) are great against mutas and it takes 3 mutas (300/300) to counter 1 queen (150) you should be fine. From there it should be easy to outmacro him.
The key with the roach vs roach is to not expand your creep past the natural and fight him where he is off creep and you are on creep.
Mass roach > Mass hydra/roach
Mass roach = Mass roach
Queens = Mutas
(meaning the muta's cant attack but you still can't push out)
To be honest you will have to test this out yourself, I am a high level random player but I have little specific experience with this situation.
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On August 30 2010 06:16 Ozx wrote:
I really need help with this matchup so if anyone wants to add me Ozx.728 if you want to run some games.
I have lost 6 ZvZ's in a row now so i'm down to ~750 point diamond now. I have been opening 14gas 14pool and going banelings into muta. I have no problem dealing with other baneling builds i'm pretty decent at that but when they go roaches I throw down an expo then i don't know what to do. The problem is they have 6 roaches on the ramp and i don't know if they are massing roaches or fast teching to spire or hydra or what ever. The thing is they could be doing anything, and from my point of view i can't possibly prepare for everything.
So if you have some advice or if you are confident in your ZvZ and want to help me practice then post/add me
when ur opponent goes roaches, u make instead of banelingnest an evo and + att for lings, then tech lair and mutas (do not over pump drones, else u wont have enough lings to stop his first push)
lings with 1+ destroy roaches
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They're probably teching but I don't know I never played a player that goes mass roach. Usually they just place roaches on the ramp so they can tank banelings. So usually I just skip banelings and I don't expo till I have a spire up.
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You could also try to be more agressive with in the early game(by mayb not 14 pooling) this will punish a player spennding 150 minerals in the roach warren. Though im not so font of the allin microfest zvz is, that is what i currently do.
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On August 30 2010 06:25 Bull-Demon wrote:
They surrender full map control to you when they go roaches, use this to your advantage. Keep flashing your lings, right outside his ramp, make it so he can't forget they are there. He has to have a minimum number of roaches to threaten you so just power drones. Gas he spends on roaches is gas NOT on mutas so you will win the gas war when you get there. Just don't morph banelings and you'll come out ahead. You have to be careful though, if he does an allin roach attack (he doesn't tech just masses roaches and keeps them from you) he CAN steamroll you if you aren't prepared.
thats assuming that the roach user will go mutas too but what if he goes roach and hydra? then it will come to about the same amount of gas
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On August 30 2010 07:01 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 06:16 Ozx wrote:
I really need help with this matchup so if anyone wants to add me Ozx.728 if you want to run some games.
I have lost 6 ZvZ's in a row now so i'm down to ~750 point diamond now. I have been opening 14gas 14pool and going banelings into muta. I have no problem dealing with other baneling builds i'm pretty decent at that but when they go roaches I throw down an expo then i don't know what to do. The problem is they have 6 roaches on the ramp and i don't know if they are massing roaches or fast teching to spire or hydra or what ever. The thing is they could be doing anything, and from my point of view i can't possibly prepare for everything.
So if you have some advice or if you are confident in your ZvZ and want to help me practice then post/add me when ur opponent goes roaches, u make instead of banelingnest an evo and + att for lings, then tech lair and mutas (do not over pump drones, else u wont have enough lings to stop his first push) lings with 1+ destroy roaches
Except if he goes +1 roaches, he 2 shots your lings. Which is far better than speedlings can boast about roaches.
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I usually go roach corrupter in my ZvZ games against ling muta play., my gameplan usually focused on holding onto a gold expansion so that i can get a massive amount of roaches and corrupters out. i usually use corrupters to move in and take out all of his overlords if possible, 4 or 5 corrupters completely shut down tons of mutalisks, especially once you get flyer carapace up. roaches with +1/+1 will kill lings fantastically also. i often tech up to broodlords as a finisher, or pump out a few mutalisks to kill drones. in larger battles the corrupters can use there corruption ability to quickly soften up an enemy who is also using roaches.
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personally i don`t like 14/14 banelings, i think it`s to late to be effective.
my standard for zvz atm is 12pool 11 extractor, drone to 15, overlord, => zerglings, 100 gas ling speed, 50 gas baneling nest. lings.
give it a try.
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On August 30 2010 10:23 claricorp wrote:
I usually go roach corrupter in my ZvZ games against ling muta play., my gameplan usually focused on holding onto a gold expansion so that i can get a massive amount of roaches and corrupters out. i usually use corrupters to move in and take out all of his overlords if possible, 4 or 5 corrupters completely shut down tons of mutalisks, especially once you get flyer carapace up. roaches with +1/+1 will kill lings fantastically also. i often tech up to broodlords as a finisher, or pump out a few mutalisks to kill drones. in larger battles the corrupters can use there corruption ability to quickly soften up an enemy who is also using roaches.
Can you post a replay or two? This sounds interesting.
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I'm having the same as you OP with my ZvZ. Right now I'm a 900-950 random player with a good win ratio in about 7 out of the 9 matchups, but my ZvZ is soooooo bad. I pretty much always open banelings (14-14) and can hold my own in a baneling wars (and if I loose I know why). But when the other Z open roaches and goes on the defensive I cannot win at all. Either I get steamrolled by a huge roach all-in, either I expo and tech to muta/hydras and get streamrolled later by their roach/hydra push, or even roach/corruptors which seems really good to kill all overlords >< When I see roach i normally skip banelings if I can't do damage in time, expo, tech to muta/hydras and make a bunch of cralwers at my nat. I always get steamrolled by the other one-basing Zerg anyway...
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In the period i did test Z out in ZvZ i did speedling+baneling into muta but sometime i lost to speedling and roach idk exactly which combo is better honestly.
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Day 9 did a nice daily on ZvZ openings. I've been liking 1 base roaches with lair tech in ZvZ, but I'm not expert in the match-up.
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On August 30 2010 10:31 Ciddass wrote:
personally i don`t like 14/14 banelings, i think it`s to late to be effective.
my standard for zvz atm is 12pool 11 extractor, drone to 15, overlord, => zerglings, 100 gas ling speed, 50 gas baneling nest. lings.
give it a try.
Yeah I do the exact same thing usually. I once played against a Roach/Hydra guy, but I lost because I built too many Banelings and expected him to attack sooner. I should have gone Muta harass (because he was actually slow).
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Just to give some tiny small possible input, try using your overlords as in ZvT as you should be able to scout if mass roach or not, as a general rule if you see any roaches just skip bling if you have time to cancel it as it won't help you. A decent response vs 1 base mass roach is 2 base mass ling, see to get expand quite early. A decent response vs 6 roach block should not be so hard to find out if you scout with ur overlord well enough 
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EPT
