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Hey Guys, first of all: I'm no noob, I know how to play, I'm 800+ Diamond Player but still I face a lot of problems, especially against Terran, if it's just a normal macro game in most cases I win, but there's some stuff I find really hard to play against. A match I just lost against a strategy I've never faced before was against fast Thor+Marines Rush
I scouted that he had a barrack and a factory, from that point on I had no more scout information because marines killed me.. I guess one mistake of me was thinking he goes 1/1/1 fast marines tanks or smthing because I saw the techlab on the factory, at the same time it could mean fast banshees. So I thought going on a mobile army vs tanks, which are pretty unmobile is a good choice, so I went for twilight council. I probably should have just gone fast observer, but at the same I think he would have pwned my slow immortals with his fast marines and the scvs repaired the Thor pretty fast, do you guys know what I did do wrong, what would have been better and how I could have won?
I even manage to kill all his Marines, but the Thors Range is so big, that it's hard to outmicro it
Here's the Replay: http://rapidshare.com/files/415298495/pvtthormarinerush.SC2Replay
greetings zedeee
EDIT: oh and btw, it's not even possible to delay his attack, because Thors kill the Force Field :s
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This was one of my BO's I used in beta its a pretty sick build however easily countered once scouted which is why I stopped using it. A fast robo bay with immortals and collsi will absolutely destroy this build. Just play defensively to bypass his early timing push then once you get a few immortals and collsi he will be stuck with a bunch of units that have been hard countered which will result in you turning the tables really quickly and ending up ahead.
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Did not watch replay, but the correct answer is zealots + immortal. I am assuming you had stalkers, which is just about the worst thing you could have built / warped in.
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Since you went Twilight Council, so perhaps you should just build on that tech tree and get HTs. HTs and Chargelots should work equally fine against a Thor/Marine army especially if you abuse Feedback and Storm.
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@SmOke welll but how should I bypass his early timing push? There's no way I'm gonna have Colossi with range upgrade until he arrives in my base, the push came really early, I barely had my blik upgrade rdy
@ divinesage, yea that sounds right, forgot bout Thors having Energy, but how should I scout it? The marines at his choke won't let any probe in and I guess I can't just assume him going Thor/Marines, or could I?
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Stalkers are just not great vs terran since both marines and marauders cost effectively beat them, especially early on, I don't think blink is the correct way to go unless you scout tanks. I realize you saw the factory and assumed tanks but he could've just been rushing cloak banshee or even medvacs for an mmm ball. You really have to open up 3 gate + robo or do a very aggressive four gate because you can't afford to be blind to what the terran is doing for that long as they have like 4 or 5 viable options.
If you had opened up 3 gate + robo and rushed the observer, you would've seen the armory and you probably had time to get 2 or 3 immortals out which would've decimated the thor even with scvs repairing it. Forcefields are also really big here, you not only can split his army in half and trap marines for zealots to hit them, you can drop them around the thor to prevent the scvs from repairing it.
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HT are the answer for just about anything a Terran will try to do later in the game so getting that tech out early is never bad. Blink as you found out is here useless and if those stalkers were zealots that alone would have let you fair a ton better. Same with trading blink for charge.
Scouting is the more difficult part. I play as T so I can't give any good ideas here. Obs and hallucinations both work well, but both are too gas heavy if you decide to go for a fast Templar tech style opening. Immortals and zealots would work well combined with a guardian shield.
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On August 27 2010 03:02 zedeee wrote:
@SmOke welll but how should I bypass his early timing push? There's no way I'm gonna have Colossi with range upgrade until he arrives in my base, the push came really early, I barely had my blik upgrade rdy
@ divinesage, yea that sounds right, forgot bout Thors having Energy, but how should I scout it? The marines at his choke won't let any probe in and I guess I can't just assume him going Thor/Marines, or could I?
Well first off you need to be more zealot heavy than stalker heavy, stalks just get pwned by Thors/Rines. Using FF to split armys at the ramp and good postioning will help alot. Like I said all you have to do is live till the collsi immortal come out and you are set. This is very risky for the T cuz if you live itl be over soon he will not be able to transition effectively. Another counter to this build is fast chargelot and immortal as well.
The other thing to figh this build is to micro effectively in the small mid game battles you encounter you have to make sure your immortals FF down the thor. At the same time you neeed to keep these alive. The T will immediatly try and FF down your immortals first, so you must dance them and try to keep them alive. Once you have some collsi out he wont have a starportnor rauders to effectviely counter and its GG
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To the people who keep suggesting FF's at the ramp. Thors are massive and FF's are useless*. The T actually took advantage of this in the replay.
*In a choked area where the thor takes up all the FF'able area.
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Yeah opening twilight is pretty rare, and a huge gamble. You pretty much have to be aggressive straight from the onset and can work if your micro is good enough on kulas with blink stalkers.
Obviously HTs are great w/ feedback and storming repairing SCVs, but you won't have it in time when thors are their greatest threat, early on where you are only at most T2.
Basically if you tech robo, get immortals, and if you went stargate get voids. The trick IMO is to only use your immortal and void on the thor initially while your gateway army mops up the marines first, then the SCVs, then focus down the thor.
edit: If you happen to be heavy stalker for some reason, try kiting their army and whittling down their marine army. Thors are slow and stalkers can kite marines decently w/ good micro.
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Choosing either robotics or templar tech is fine, since Colossi and HT make quick work of both marines and Thors.
Since you already put down a Twilight Council, the natural transition would be Templar Archives.
But one thing you can do is just throw a zealot at the ramp and see what shoots. Zealots are pretty durable, so he'll most likely survive, and it's very hard to prevent units from auto-attacking, especially since T units are all ranged and clumped up in one base.
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If you have sentries, instead of just being like...oh crap I can't force field, research hallucinate, make some void ray hallucinations, and have them a moved at the front. Thor AI is buggy and will target air units first if A-moved into the battle because the air attack has very long range (zergs bring OLs into battle sometimes for this reason). This will keep the Thors preoccupied for a bit while you move in with zealots and stalkers. Remember guardian shield destroys marine DPS, allowing your zealots to get on top of the marines. Immortals are also an option, but you need to kill the marines gaurding the thors before you move in with them, or they will get focus fired (immortals have range 5 while Thors have range 6 or 7 meaning they will have to move into the marines).
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I have faced this twice in the last two days. I wish I had saved the replays. In both games I opened 2 gate robo into 3 gate and scouted the armory. In the first game I had 3-4 immortals with the army and the 3 thors/marines decimated my zealot/sentry/immortal army. Same thing in the second game except I warped in a robo bay and attempted to get colossi but they arrived too late.
I think that HTs or Colossi are the only answer. Storm/Feedback obviously decimate that army but I do not speed tech to HTs and w/o robo or hallucination you cannot know the thor push is coming.
So, more realistically if I had thrown down the robo bay immediately upon scouting the reactored marines it may be fast enough to have two colossi and range. The AoE will melt the repairing SCVs and marines. Hmm...other opinions?
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the main point of this terran strat is to have thors and SCV tank damage for the marines, so you want to get a surround with zealots in order to kill the marines off quickly
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I'm also having problem with this build, I'm a mid platinum player and lost to a gold player doing this build horribly. I even spotted it way before he had any Thors.
The issues I'm having with this build is:
SCVs
I'm unable to focus fire the SCVs since they are practically UNDER the Thor. Chargelots will only deal with the marines, and are useless vs the Thor since they will only run around and not target SCVs.
Templar
Going Templar tech is a HUGE gamble. No way to scout it, no Observer, no Hallucination. And very exposed to Banshees.
Colossus
After some testing in a unit tester map I can say that a Colossus "splash" will not hit the SCVs if attacking the Thor.
I'm totally at a loss on what to do in the PvT matchup. Anyone have any real success in dealing with this build?
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This build basically abuses the fact that SCVs do not have priority even when repairing, your best bet would to be to try to outmicro him and kill enough SCVs to make the repairs negligible.
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I am going to bump this thread because this was the same problem I just had.
I am a high Diamond Player currently 1153 (yeah thats what i get for a full time job and part time school)
I have never seen this before so i really did not know what to do with it. I had a retard moment in my game were I though, well I will just FF all around the thors gg. Yeah I was retarded, i guess i could have done a couple things different but the whole SCV thing repairing a unit to 100% hp in 2 secs is kinda crazy? any thought TL
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i'm a nooby silver player but play alot against gold and it seems most terranplayers use this strat since this week , if it's late i can usually win the game ,but it's very difficult to scout cause they usually proxy the armory or factory somewhere else on the map.
the problem is that if timed right even if i go 2g robo my immortal is late and zealots are useless cause they just run around the thor cause of the scv's , can only target them manually (which is hard because of the large base of the thor)
is this a bug or intended?anyone have some good tips to counter this or a good build?
would 1gate, cyber then fast robo work but wouldn't that leave me vunerable if the terran player goes mmm??
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Feedback and storm simply destroy me when I go Thors.
You just gotta hope that the Terran is horrible with Ghosts because the EMP can really screw your HTs up.
Also; Phoenix could help?
The lifting thing they do is just crazy.
Lift up the Thors; storm the Marines.
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i played few games thor/marines and scv,
i lost when protos player has zealots, lots stalkers, imortals. with them snipe out my support units and then thor is easy target
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EPT
