EPT[D] TvP--why hellions are really really good against P - P…
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Monk___
United States123 Posts
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0mar
United States567 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Vs protoss it was tanks, hellions, and vikings with a couple marines sprinkled in there. It was funny how effective it all was as I would just have this giant wall of hellions wherever I needed it. Zealots would be fried instantly, and stalkers would end up blinking right into siege range. The only unit I ever had issues with were immortals, but when I had enough hellions, it was just funny in general. I felt like a shitty player though, so I had to go back to zerg and play for reals. The funny part, my rating stayed the same all day, so screwing around with mech terran is just as good as busting my ass with zerg :/ <3 anything and everything being effective, wish I had that as zerg... | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
Later on hellion harass isn't superb against toss either because (blink) stalkers can be warped in a substantial amount and protoss has the least trouble of all races to quickly replace probes (excess nexus energy). not sure but ive lost all my drones at an expansion befor(20~ or so) and replaced them all in secods after the harrass is taken care of. zerg is by far the best race for replacing lost drones since you can make any number at one time. | ||
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kingcomrade
United States115 Posts
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Gnial
Canada907 Posts
Also, my standard builds are great against any sort of early game hellion play. Hellions definitely have a place with bio in the late game when more zealots are likely to be on the field, bunching together all juicily - but a lot of P early play is lighter on zealots. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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panda_inc
Australia170 Posts
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Chunkybuddha
Canada347 Posts
On August 26 2010 13:27 charlie420247 wrote: not sure but ive lost all my drones at an expansion befor(20~ or so) and replaced them all in secods after the harrass is taken care of. zerg is by far the best race for replacing lost drones since you can make any number at one time. Lol. OK, then you have no larva, gg next macro round. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Even with blue flame against light units, they still have pretty bad dps. The common way to deal with that is to simply use their superior speed to avoid taking damage while you murder light units, which then essentially makes their lower dps irrelevant, since they can kite, and not take damage. The other way to deal with their bad dps is to use them in melee range, abusing the splash. Then they actually end up having decent damage, even against stalkers for example. But then they are in the front line, and they also have a bad health-cost ratio, and so are not amazing to soak damage  Thus they are probably best left for harrassment, map control, and high templar sniping, instead of trying to incorporate them in an army. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Zealots just don't clump up the way zerglings do and zealots DPS kills hellions insanely fast, sure you can kite but the whole thing protoss thinks of during a game is using ways to prevent you kite. Marines just kite easier because they can be healed, hellions taking a few stalker shots means you need to repair or whatever which is just crap. As for hellion drops, sure they are good but are they really worth the effort of pre-igniter? Beyond the early game a protoss will always have 6+ gateways ready to immediately warp in stalkers, offcourse you will get some probe kills if he responds late but you are also likely to lose the hellions and possibly the medivacs. Infantry drops imo are just as scary as hellion drops, as they can be done anywhere, not only the mineral line per se. Infantry drops are also much tougher to deal with by just stalkers as they usually drop mostly marauders. So it's less damage but also less risk for the terrran. All in all, yes hellions can be good against a zealot HT army and yes they can harass well but are they worth it later on in most normal games? In my opinion not. Marines are just a better way to spend minerals. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On August 26 2010 17:17 NB wrote: listening to kawaiirice stream smack talking about this thread LOLOL, this is hilarious =))) What did he say? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On August 26 2010 17:17 NB wrote: listening to kawaiirice stream smack talking about this thread LOLOL, this is hilarious =))) That's not exactly surprising. He's a Terran player who probably doesn't face many Protoss players who attempt to out-macro him. My strategy against Terran uses the efficiency of zealots to contest mid-game map control so that I can try to stay one base ahead of Terran. I'll grant that in 1-base play, hellions aren't great. But if P tries to play a macro game against T, hellions are INSANELY strong because they simultaneously act as perfect harass units and perfect main army muscle units. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On August 26 2010 16:34 Gnial wrote: I hope T's start using hellions more. All this 'regular move'/'attack move' bio kiting micro is getting a little dry. Some hellion micro could REALLY make things interesting. Also, my standard builds are great against any sort of early game hellion play. Hellions definitely have a place with bio in the late game when more zealots are likely to be on the field, bunching together all juicily - but a lot of P early play is lighter on zealots. Agreed, a lot of P players are opening with 1-base play right now. I know you like a stalker-void ray opening against T that transitions into chargelot/HT. It's definitely a strong opening, but I prefer a more macro-oriented opening. Like I said above, pre-ignitor hellions aren't worthwhile against a 1-base Protoss. As the game progresses, P will spread out over multiple bases, making hellion harass much harder to contain. At the same time, P will want to rely increasingly on zealots and HT (we both believe this to be the bread and butter mid-game PvT composition), so while hellion harass becomes more threating, hellions simultaneously become awesome head-to-head combat units. It's kind of ridiculous.... | ||
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aznhockeyboy16
United States558 Posts
however, if I'm up against high templar and somehow I have enough mineral left over from pumping marauders and tanks and vikings, I will get hellions, since marines just melt under storm and ff, but the extra gas needed to build the factories kind of makes it a little less appealing. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On August 26 2010 16:52 Chunkybuddha wrote: Lol. OK, then you have no larva, gg next macro round. I love when zergs think rebuilding all their drones at once means they arent behind Until they start to think thats like 20 hydralisks or something they could have had but they now dont have  | ||
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