EPTI can't imagine having more zealots would be good vs marauder. Is there an early game unit mix that beats marauders or do u have to play defensively? Is there a way to micro around them?
PvT defending against quick marauder with cncshell
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Jinmaster
United States36 Posts
I can't imagine having more zealots would be good vs marauder. Is there an early game unit mix that beats marauders or do u have to play defensively? Is there a way to micro around them? | ||
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Afterhours
United States125 Posts
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Stutte
Sweden13 Posts
Never, ever ever send all your DT's in a ball against the enemy, as this will guarantee a scan and they will all die. An alternative is to tech to colossi, but with getting extended thermal lances, the possibilities of easy counters with vikings (especially if you get scanned in the process) and the huge build time i wouldn't call it foolproof. High temps also work very well but suffer same problem as Colossi (if scouted he'll get ghosts). Just pick your strat and remember P is pretty worthless against T in early-mid. If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I'd be happy to see some replays of a T going three-racks and a P fending it off without force-fielding ramp. | ||
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Backpack
United States1776 Posts
On August 25 2010 11:41 Jinmaster wrote: I was playing on a small map and terran went straight to marauder with concussive shells. I went 2 gate, made a few zel, started teching to stalkers. When he hit me I couldnt do any micro because of the concussive slow down and I only had a few stalkers. Sorry no rep. I can't imagine having more zealots would be good vs marauder. Is there an early game unit mix that beats marauders or do u have to play defensively? Is there a way to micro around them? don't ever open 2 gate zealot against terran, you'll always want to get a core the second your gateway finishes and then get a stalker out asap. 1st because it nullifys any early reaper and 2nd because stalkers (and 3-4 probes if needed) can fend off those very early marauder pushes | ||
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Predateur
Canada79 Posts
don't make a zealot, chrono first stalker. make a stargate after first gateway and core. chrono first void ray, make a push with 3-4 stalker and 1 void ray. I had good success with this build against heavy marauders build. void ray own em. It's hard to beat it with gateway units, since marauders got the upper hand | ||
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Jinmaster
United States36 Posts
He hit with about 6-7, and I knew he had some cuz i sent some zel at his ramp to see what he had, so next time vs ter i'll only make 1 zel or so and then get sentry quicker, but once i have sentries should i get cannon for defense or zealots are good with sentry alone? Or get 2 sentry then a bunch of stalkers? | ||
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Jinmaster
United States36 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Kikuichimonji
United States102 Posts
An alternative is to apply *early* zealot pressure before he can get marauders/concussive shell (I mean early enough to where you're cutting probes). If you get into his mineral line it doesn't matter if a marauder w/ Concussive shell pops out, just take the shots and kill SCVs. Zealot/stalker is way better vs marauders than zealots or stalkers alone. Marauders that try to kite zealots with stalker support give the stalkers free shots, but if they engage the stalkers the zealots get close. It's not a 'solution' by any means but it makes the marauders less efficient. | ||
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Stutte
Sweden13 Posts
I would not advise quick voids as just a few stim marines can take them down. Possibly if you keep them behind your choke, but it's not surefire. T's rarely go marauder only, but often marauder-heavy, and you can't know the composition before the first push. I've had some T's go pretty marine-heavy at times and if they do your VR's are worthless. Saying how many marauders they have when you have a void ray is impossible since the timing can differ greatly on both sides. | ||
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Durantula
United States108 Posts
I found a solution to this, but you do have cut a lot of probes. I hold off the push but end up losing the game cause of a bad call. I probably should have thrown down a stargate after the first two gateways instead of going twighlight council. Anyway, replay: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-142572.jpg) not the best game, but it sorta shows the solution 9 pylon scout- see fast gas 10/11 gate (preferably 10) 11gas 12/13 core zealot stalker warpgate lots of micro. | ||
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Predateur
Canada79 Posts
On August 25 2010 12:01 Jinmaster wrote: Quick void ray would own this if I know they r going marauder yeah, I like the idea of getting a quick void. How many maruaders will he have if I VR rush? The idea is to hide your tech in a corner, and push as soon as you get your first VR. Usually when I hit he has 3-4 Marauders and a bunch of marines, don't be afraid of marines, you will have stalker to back you VR up, you need good micro to keep your VR charged and dodging the fire from the marine, try to charge your void ray on his wall if he has walled-in, don't be afraid to shoot your one stalker for 1sec to keep your level 3 charge up, once your VR is charged and you cleared the marines, say GG  | ||
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HardcoreBilly
United States222 Posts
On August 25 2010 11:57 Predateur wrote: I suggest trying out this build : don't make a zealot, chrono first stalker. make a stargate after first gateway and core. chrono first void ray, make a push with 3-4 stalker and 1 void ray. I had good success with this build against heavy marauders build. void ray own em. It's hard to beat it with gateway units, since marauders got the upper hand I honestly doubt you even play Protoss, as you'd have tons of minerals leftover base on your suggested build. Also, this army composition is very frail, as it depends on your opponent not having any anti-air (marines). Also, do to Terran wall-in, I'm guessing you're suggesting the OP to just blindly do this build, which would lose to pretty much any build other than pure marauder that don't make a push before you get out the stargate. I can go on, but I won't. Please don't theorycraft and claim it as tested with success. | ||
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Predateur
Canada79 Posts
yes I play protoss you can check my profile for a link my bnet account. You shouldn't have too much mineral left, VR cost 250 mineral and stalker 125, alltough this build is heavy gaz dependant, you will need 2 early gaz. After your first Void ray, add 1 or 2 gateway depending on what the opponent does. if he goes mass marine, make more stalkers. of course you need to scout before doing this, if if has no tech lab and 3 barrack don't do it, common sense | ||
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HardcoreBilly
United States222 Posts
Also, to address the topic itself. Void Rays are indeed good if you instinctively know your opponent is going mass Marauders, but the safest bet is to get at least one sentry to block your opponent from entering your base (or to trap some Marauders for your Zealots to eat up). While doing that, tech up to Robo and get some Immortals while pumping out warp gate units. This is a safe build which can pretty much deal with anything. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
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stork4ever
United States1036 Posts
Why are people suggesting immortals/collosi/VR's when the scenario presented is a straight tech to marauders and timing push on a small map? Carriers and mothership is the ultimate counter for maruaders. | ||
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Skaya
United States126 Posts
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sushiko
197 Posts
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Elanshin
Australia216 Posts
Going Robo is a very safe play against Terran and CB that Ob to see whats going on, however a good terran should be poking before that even happens so its critical that you get a sentry after your first stalker. (and for the love of god keep it away from the ledge, I've won quite a few games simply by scanning and sniping that sentry before just walking into the toss base). Immortals are very very good against marauders as long as you have stalker support with it. I'd be very careful of using the 2 gate early double stalker build, most terran will scout this, not push out, bunker up and then push out when he can overwhelm your force. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
if your playing a 2 player map always 10 or 11gate I transition into 13gas > 14 core to get a stalker out. then you can put down your starport by 18 usually | ||
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Nitroflash
United States12 Posts
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SirNeshorn
Norway66 Posts
Just be sure what you're up against. If you can get out a Void Ray when the T has marauder only, the game is over. An early attack should imply what T would focus on. If he doesn't attack early, check out his ramp with a unit to see what kind of units he got there. If it's only marauders, VR can be quite devastating. If he's got a mix, stick to some gateway units while you slowly but surely try to tech up against some AoE firepower. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
The best answer is just to get zealots and stalkers early on. Chase his marauders with zealots and shoot the marauders with stalkers. If he kite's the zealot the stalker will still hit him (and the zealot can take some pounding), if he tries to hit the stalker, make sure to stand still with the stalker so the zealot can hit him. Either way the marauders lose out. Just make sure to return your stalkers at the time your front zealots are just about to die when he is kiting you, you should be able to buy some time then while you return back to base. Warp in new zealots and repeat. Sentries aren't too good early on except for blocking the ramp really and maybe a guardian shield. Force field to stop the marauders from kiting you really doesn't work in the open and sentries are bad against kiting marauders because of their speed. I make 1 sentry at most early on and usually for guardian shield or forcefielding the ramp, force field range is just too short to really stop marauders kiting you with it. The trick against marauders is just to keep in mind that stalkers ARE usefull agianst them early on while you also have zealots and he doesnt have stim yet, later on stalkers become quite crap and thats why you want charge and HT reasonably quick. | ||
jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
i had pretty good results using a loosly (i don't really check my foodcount) build like this: pylon gate gas core pylon gas stalker (boosted) sentry pylon robo zealot pylon immortal sentry on a map like scrap station it's almost impossible to pull this off because the ramp is too wide. and since the bases on scrap station are so close, void rays are a good offensive option as well. but if you manage to kill the push with this (sentry) method, you often have a nice force and window for a counter attack left. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
EDIT: I wouldnt recommned rushing to void rays. Most terrans expect it now, so they scout for it and assume its coming if there arent many gateways. I would say that void rays are ok to get but not to rush to. When I see a toss going void rays I know that all I have to do is defend and then counter. | ||
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Stutte
Sweden13 Posts
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Rashia
Sweden68 Posts
Hard part is that if you get a sentry.. for the marauders, and he get a reaper you're screwed :X | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
He had all of my units dead and was trying to focus the stargate whne it popped :D Ended up winning shortly thereafter. Keep in mind that you can go gateway units+stargate and focus the marines with your gateway units. If their marines die, it doesnt matter if you have only your void rays left-- its GG. Just make sure to snipe marines as they spawn, and spawn zealots into his base once you burn a hole in his wall. | ||
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mskaa
Denmark155 Posts
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
If you're really ballsy you can take yoru 1 zealot, pull 2 probes off yoru line and try to trap him with good micro, constatnly cycling probes with your mineral line. This is not for the faint of heart and if you screw up just for a moment you can come out behind. On the other hand, it's a good way to punish overly agressive marauder play. | ||
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Kagormund
Canada27 Posts
Another good choice of units is the void ray. If he goes all out marauders and you can manage to hide a stargate somewhere, you can pump out about 3 void rays and then proceed to stomp him. Contrary to popular belief, the terran will NOT be able to pump out enough marines to counter your void rays if you proceed immediately to his rax and camp them. Once the rax are dealt with, proceed to collect your win. Against a pure marauder mix, collosi are slightly overrated. They are easily cut down by marauders, and once they are down, the marauders will have no trouble kiting the rest of your forces. I suggest using collosi only if you can force field your ramp to keep the marauders out and get free hits on them (of course if he goes marine/marauder, collosi are suddenly a much more viable choice; much better than void rays at any rate). Note that I am a RANDOM player, so my methods may not be a good as a dedicated protoss player's. | ||
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TheStorm
France39 Posts
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divinesage
Singapore649 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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farseerdk
Canada504 Posts
The reason I like getting a quick robo is that you can also get an observer out quickly in case of fast banshees. In small numbers, immortals >>>> mauraders. Unfortunately, they get worse as numbers increase and the game goes on due to concussive, stim, and maurader longer range. It is possible to break a terran who is teching with a fast immortal, 1 obs and some gateway units, but this is stopped by lots of marines behind a wall. going 2 gate + robo and getting 2 immortals and an observer out quickly in addition to your stalkers is a good way to defend against an early marauder break. If you scout a 1:1:1, you can actually move up, blast down the depot wall, waltz up and kill the terran right there. If you scout 3 or 4 rax plays, you can defend your own choke effectively with your immortals, stalkers and a sentry or 2 while you tech to templar. Once templar are out, you should not lose to a marine-marauder composition. You can also simply tech to collosus, but since you will be needing charge, it's not that much hard to get templar, and I personally prefer templar over collosus any day. I use this build an transition into an expand against an aggressive terran. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/64960-1v1-terran-protoss-blistering-sands or Mship rush: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/64956-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis Reasoning: I played about 9 games this morning, 6 I lost because I tried to go standard army. At my level, it seems that I'm not good enough to beat the opponent with anything standard, so to get my 3 wins I proxied, mship rushed, and dt rushed (basically pulling crap outta my ass). Why they worked? Because my timings were tight and they were unexpected. Why are they not smart? Because any good player will beat it. Right now I am so pissed off at a single unit, and that is the marauder. I don't know how to nerf this unit, but in all seriousness it is waaaaaaay too strong for when it comes out. I have tried to think about the best way to handle this timing push that almost every Terran I play pulls on me; I even know it's coming. I have done the 2 cb stalkers early harass, but it loses to cshell; it's really a waste of 125/50 to engage the marauder early game. About the only thing I haven't done is zealot/sentry, which I really want to try because it seems like the right thing to do, even though if I mess up some FFs I will end with a loss anyway. | ||
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AugustZerg
Canada4 Posts
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 25 2010 12:24 HardcoreBilly wrote: I honestly doubt you even play Protoss, as you'd have tons of minerals leftover base on your suggested build. Also, this army composition is very frail, as it depends on your opponent not having any anti-air (marines). Also, do to Terran wall-in, I'm guessing you're suggesting the OP to just blindly do this build, which would lose to pretty much any build other than pure marauder that don't make a push before you get out the stargate. I can go on, but I won't. Please don't theorycraft and claim it as tested with success. On August 25 2010 13:17 Karliath wrote: Stalkers are terrible against Marauders. I would suggest going robo -> colossi and then some immortals. Come on guys, if you aren't going to watch the replay or read the OP entirely then please don't post. @Karliath: You seem to be misunderstanding the OP. He is talking about the terran player building all or mostly all marauders very early and then rushing his base. Immortals would come out far too late to stop the attack, and colossi are completely out of the question. The OP is talking about very early marauders, think around the time you would have 8 zealots on 2 gate they have 5 marauders with conc shell. @HardcoreBilly: Predateur's build is neither fragile nor should it leave a lot of minerals left over. If you scout your opponent and see them making a second rax before their first is finished and then putting a tech lab on that first rax. There's a really good chance that you're going to see reapers or marauders. You should have four stalkers by the time that your opponent is hitting you with his army. Now if he has all marauders, your VR will push him back more likely than not. If he has mostly marauders, he will pull his 5-6 marines to the front to shoot at the VR, your stalkers, if micro'd properly will help you kill enough of the marines for your VR to survive and wipe the attack force. Afterwards you have a free VR to harrass your opponent. Any extra minerals that you have should go towards building zealots. To help kill the marauders/buy time for the stalkers. Admittedly yes, zealot sentry is a safer bet at stopping this assault, however, the VR gambit puts you in a better position after you repel them and it forces the T player to build marines. This strat works in mid to mid high diamond. | ||
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
Best way to defend is to have a zealot in front with stalkers in the back doing damage. If you do not have a zealot, you might need to pull probes. A-click your zealot, then micro your stalker (animation cancel) to deal damage. | ||
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farseerdk
Canada504 Posts
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