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Hi,
I've been lurking the SC2 strat forum for a while and gathered some basic knowledge and tried applying it to my game. But I've come to a point where I need more detailed help.
Right now, I'm low diamond and having a difficult time because I start facing strats I've never handled before and just don't have enough experience (been playing for a week) to respond textbook and end up playing by gut. I only learned in platinum that you're supposed to wall vs Z and just yesterday that you don't need high templar archives to build dark shrine which fucked me over quite a few times as you can imagine LOL. That reminds me, when you wall vs Z, I heard you're supposed to wall so that you can complete the wall with only 1 zealot? But then how will stalkers get out or are you supposed to go mostly zealot sentries and transition into mass stalkers mid-late game only?
On to my point, I play on the Korean server and just about every PvP at my level is some variation of 4 gate:
1) no gas, no warpgate 4 (3 proxy usually) gate zealot rally
2) just gas for warpgate upgrade
3) 4 gate with constant gas (defensive 4 gate as I like to call it)
Needless to say, both players are aware that some early gateway wars is going to go down. I'm not sure what kind of relation #1, 2 and 3 have but I think it's 2 > 3 > 1 at non top tier levels? 1 can be stopped with good simcity or forge it seems.
Some guy who raped me twice in a row with #2 kindly told me that I could never have a chance to defend if I didn't pull probes off gas but that doesn't sound entirely true from what I've been gathering.
I read through the 4 gate liquipedia page by Plexa and it helped me a lot but I was wondering what the idea behind simcity in PvP is. What builds are of highest priority and what I am trying to force the opponent to do with my building placement if I'm on the defensive? I had a game where someone chose #1 variation and I was doing #3 and I decided to cannon my mineral line but he was able to kill my cybernetics basically taking away the advantage I would've had.
Is there a way to play #3 safely every game? It is my favorite play style since I can use it for all MUs and transition into something else when I choose to. My mentor figure told me I should just 4 gate every game to get through platinum since it's works so well on that level anyway and every P should perfect it. But I notice that 4 gate isn't considered nearly as strong in high lvl PvP (maybe I'm mistaken) and both players can opt to go 1-2 gate robo depending on the map. What makes this viable? Is there a rep of a PvP where a good player does 4 gate and is shut down by a considerably less aggressive build?
Also which maps are good/better for which variation? I find scrap station to be strong for #1 and 2 since the ramp is so wide and sentries are less powerful as a result.
Let's say I'm doing #3 and I sense #2 coming. Plexa mentioned that whoever gets warptech first will most likely win. But let's say we finish at the same time, aren't I forced to defend since he is richer in the sense that he can go only zealots as he has more probes mining minerals? The last time I did #3 vs #2, we did a base race and I thought I had won because I started a Nexus in his base after we cleared each other's bases and he seemed to have no $ left over but then he ran over me with more zealots at the ramp (Metrapolis).
Other questions in a list:
1. If I see devourers (not sure of the english name since I play on the shitty KOR version -_-) when I have colossi in PvZ is it better to stop producing and swtich to HT or add phoenix and stalkers to take care of them somehow since I already invested a lot into colossi tech?
2. When I move out PvZ with 4 gate, I'm usually blind as to what the zerg is doing but assuming that I have superior ground forces so that he'll be on the defensive with spine crawlers, how do I know he hasn't massed lings and is waiting to rush my base once he sees me in the middle of the map with the sensor towers? or am I suppose to leave 1 sentry at the choke? because I see better P players just rushing towards Z base confidently with all his troops
3. Terran is least common in my division (?) I'm actually not sure how that works. Do I only play against ppl in my division or am I only competeing in rank with ppl in my division? How much of a threat is 4 gate vs T compared to the other MUs? I would assume much lower because of mauraders and bunkers but can I use it as a standard opening since recent games on youtube (I watched a lot of those) seem to point towards terran mass infantry being standard these days. The other option I have seems to be 1Gate Robo and add gates and play like BW?
4. What is the standard unit composition in mid game PvP? Right now all the gateway units seem to serve their purpose and it's only a matter of who has more colossi. When you line up zealots, stalkers, sentries, immortals and colossi, my take is that:
Colossi: top of the food chain
Stalkers: cheap range so increases combat efficiency over mass zealots
Zealots: shields to protect your colossi and sentries
Immortals: not sure what role they have other than that they are good only vs stalkers?
Sentries: enough for constant shield and forcefields + when you have leftover gas
5. When is it safe to expand if both players started 4 Gate and both started off with massing troops? There has to be a point where the difference of 3-4 units is defendable due to home advantage even though warp gates kinda make that a dangerous assumption.
I'm sorry I didn't include any replays but I play at PC bangs so my autosaved reps are scattered all over the place and I'm at home now 
Thanks!
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With the 4 gate intricacies, I can't help you, probably just your experience will be the only thing that will give you good advice there.
1) It's a matter of style and micro. If you are confidant you can micro your collosi away while killing corrupters (they aren't devourers) then go for it. If not, then stop building them.
2)Well if hes just doing a run-by, you probably will win because lings don't really baserace well.
3)You compete against everyone.
4)I'd say you understand this. One thing I'd add is that immortals might be better against a collosi/stalker heavy build just because they are bigger so less splash.
5) IDK. But it is much safer if you can deny scouting by sniping observers.
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Ok, so I tried #2 on some P who is probably much better than me and I got stomped. He went 2 gate and he didn't chronoboost his warpgate upgrade obviously and just used it to pump units fast from (fast stalker starting to clear a pylon before my warpgate tech finished and only zealots after)2 gates and for some reason. And since he constantly pumped units with chronoboost while I was waiting for warpgate tech, he started with more units on my 1st wave.
Is it standard to just rally units from normal gateways to his base? because I thought warpgating would be faster since the 3 gates added pretty much finish when warpgate research is done and that means I'm only rallying units from my 1st gateway which is maybe 2 zealots max and 1 at a time and a stalker can easily clear them.
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Ok, so I tried #2 on some P who is probably much better than me and I got stomped. He went 2 gate and he didn't chronoboost his warpgate upgrade obviously and just used it to pump units fast from (fast stalker starting to clear a pylon before my warpgate tech finished and only zealots after)2 gates and for some reason. And since he constantly pumped units with chronoboost while I was waiting for warpgate tech, he started with more units on my 1st wave.
Is it standard to just rally units from normal gateways to his base? because I thought warpgating would be faster since the 3 gates added pretty much finish when warpgate research is done and that means I'm only rallying units from my 1st gateway which is maybe 2 zealots max and 1 at a time and a stalker can easily clear them.
The only advice i could give you would be to pump out units with your gates non-stop while you are waiting for warpgates. I usually have 2 gates up while waiting for wgates and depending on my build i'll have about 5-6 zealots and a stalker or two before warpgates are up.
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Ah I see, I would really like to see a perfectly executed version of #2 if anyone has a link. And just to add some content, even though it's widely accepted that T is imba and Z is weak, statistics suggest pretty good balance somehow o_O
Race: Total Games / Wins / Losses / Win %
Random: 213,241 / 108,347 / 104,894 / 50.81%
Zerg: 556,343 / 285,418 / 270,925 / 51.30%
Terran: 1,007,663 / 503,808 / 503,855 / 50.00%
Protoss: 1,167,885 / 596,103 / 571,782 / 51.04%
Total: 2,945,132 / 1,493,676 / 1,451,456 / 50.72%
Yea, there's half the # of zergs as P and T, maybe only the above-average players decided to stay with zerg to make up for its weakness?
Source: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/kr.php?page=15#rank_1423
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you can beat a 4 warpgate with a 3 gate robo build only on maps with a small ramp if you use sentries to permablock your ramp. You will also need to chase thier scout probe with another probe until your chronoed stalker comes out to kill it.
Since you are relying on sentries to keep you alive until u get collosus to melt their gateway army this will only work on maps with a small ramp and no backdoor. Kulas, Scrap station and blistering sands are not good maps to try this, you will need to go 4 gate if they are 4 gating.
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Slightly off topic, but as an alternative to 4 gating have you considered proxy stargate. My experience with is that the strategy tends to lead to base racing, and with bad micro or opponent awareness this probably loses. However, I have not played on the Korean server (mid-ranked Diamond here) so maybe this doesn't work against good players.
That being said the build involves, just pump zeals early game to look like your going to try to do some zeal bust (basically you have to hope they wont kite you to death with their early game stalkers). You play standard looking 1 gate core, hopefully killing the enemy scouting probe and immediately place a proxy stargate and save chrono. Basically, the whole point of the build is to get 1-2 voidrays in the opponents main while his stalkers are mid-way on the map or in your base. Hopefully you find an empty bases and your voidray can charge. After the voidray is charged (other void ray rallied) warping in stalkers are quickly annhilated and can unpower warpgates quickly (killing pylons fast). If his army turns and runs you've gotten some probe kills and can play standard w/better econ, if not it might turn into a base race, where hopefully your base stays alive long enough to whittle down his stalker army that your voidrays will win.
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On August 15 2010 12:13 Heen wrote:Ah I see, I would really like to see a perfectly executed version of #2 if anyone has a link. And just to add some content, even though it's widely accepted that T is imba and Z is weak, statistics suggest pretty good balance somehow o_O Race: Total Games / Wins / Losses / Win % Random: 213,241 / 108,347 / 104,894 / 50.81% Zerg: 556,343 / 285,418 / 270,925 / 51.30% Terran: 1,007,663 / 503,808 / 503,855 / 50.00% Protoss: 1,167,885 / 596,103 / 571,782 / 51.04% Total: 2,945,132 / 1,493,676 / 1,451,456 / 50.72% Yea, there's half the # of zergs as P and T, maybe only the above-average players decided to stay with zerg to make up for its weakness? Source: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/kr.php?page=15#rank_1423
these statistics mean nothing
the entire point of matchmaking assures that winrates will stay about 50% for all
if a Z isn't winning zvt they will move down and play weaker Ts so that they do win
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On August 15 2010 13:24 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 12:13 Heen wrote:Ah I see, I would really like to see a perfectly executed version of #2 if anyone has a link. And just to add some content, even though it's widely accepted that T is imba and Z is weak, statistics suggest pretty good balance somehow o_O Race: Total Games / Wins / Losses / Win % Random: 213,241 / 108,347 / 104,894 / 50.81% Zerg: 556,343 / 285,418 / 270,925 / 51.30% Terran: 1,007,663 / 503,808 / 503,855 / 50.00% Protoss: 1,167,885 / 596,103 / 571,782 / 51.04% Total: 2,945,132 / 1,493,676 / 1,451,456 / 50.72% Yea, there's half the # of zergs as P and T, maybe only the above-average players decided to stay with zerg to make up for its weakness? Source: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/kr.php?page=15#rank_1423 these statistics mean nothing the entire point of matchmaking assures that winrates will stay about 50% for all if a Z isn't winning zvt they will move down and play weaker Ts so that they do win
Does it actually adjust on a per matchup basis as well? Or will this effect just be because losing games ZvT lowers your overall ranking, thus resulting in weaker Terrans?
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EPT
