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Guide to Cannon Rushing - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
September 17 2010 15:41 GMT
#201
It's saddening to see that so many of TL posters have a strong bias against cheese and still read the strategy forums. The OP was informative and even outlined the weakpoints of cannon rushing.

Saying cannon rushes can be stopped easily is fine but to say that only bad players do it or that it only works vs bad players is... misinformed.
('''(G_G/'''')
EccoEcco
Profile Joined May 2010
United States61 Posts
September 17 2010 15:56 GMT
#202
I'm glad people cannon rush because it separates the player base into three distinct tiers:

1 - Newer players who cannot defend cheese
2 - People who only win with cheese
3 - People who study, think and practice

Group 2 helps drive Group 1 to either join group 2, join group 3 or quit.

Group 3 is motivated to stay ahead of Group 2 because playing Group 2 isn't very fun, which keeps group 2 firmly in the middle.

The more people that are in group 3 the healthier and more exciting the Starcraft 2 community is.

Its sort of one of those "Hell is just marketing collateral for heaven" situations.
There is a reward for losing: an opportunity to learn and improve.
JamieDukes
Profile Joined August 2010
Russian Federation82 Posts
September 17 2010 18:38 GMT
#203
lost to cannon rusher earlier ( cannons > zerglings
))))
Zack1900
Profile Joined January 2010
United States211 Posts
September 17 2010 18:45 GMT
#204
Thank you for the guide, but I suggest pulling 5 workers if you weren't there when the cannon started. I tried 4 and I lost the game. I tried 5 next time and I took down the cannons when they were nearly done. Stupid toss made something like 5 cannons and I killed them all before my lings poped (15 pool)
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 19:07:09
September 17 2010 19:05 GMT
#205
I believe this thread should be closed. As much as the OP wishes this to be a strategy, it isn't a viable strategy in any sort of upper level play. The OP has a certain responsibility to building the community of SC2, and to speak of Cannon Rushing as if he was speaking about an actual, viable build is just irresponsible. It won't better any of those people coming to TL to learn actual strategies that improve fundamentals and mechanics, it won't help the community of SC2 because of the "nerd rage" that the OP generates every time he cannon rushes, and whats most important, especially for a site like TL, is that players are here to discuss the game at high levels while not so good players are genuinely interested in becoming better at the game. Most gamers are not on TL to delve into great depths on something that is gimmicky at best and offers no value.

The very best that this strategy can give anyone is a +1 to the win column about 50% of the time. Look at how many pages a topic like this gets, even though most of the posts are "it's lame" or "I'm okay with it." Again, close this thread; it has no value and does not support the community in a positive way.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Casta
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark234 Posts
September 17 2010 19:20 GMT
#206
Nice guide. I don't play protoss, but I like the level of detail you have put into the art of cannon rushing, I usually did one of the wrongs you posted before learning the proper way to respond to a cannon rush and the thing that usually frustrates the most is the uncatchable probe running around in your face, and the seemingly useless attemps to kill warping buildings that only gets cancelled at the last second.

Knowing the risks and methods from the protoss players point of view, I feel a lot safer.

Thanks!
powernapper
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Italy21 Posts
September 17 2010 19:51 GMT
#207
"I am just a guy who plays starcraft. I am not good at the game. I am not bad at it either. When I play, I am a top 5 Platinum Toss. However, my rank slips because I don’t play that much."

You cannon rush and you're a "top 5" platinum toss, you sir are indeed bad at this game, and people rage because people like you who are "top 5" platinum tosses are able to beat them when they are twice if not thrice better than you. Call me a nerd rager if I call you a skill-less noob but when someone is as ignorant as you that they cannot see that in the long run your cannon rushes will not improve your skill at all. (and don't you dare fucking say something like "my micro becomes a lot better" cause my fucking mom can run a probe away from workers and just mash pylons everywhere)

And for anyone who is wondering who would write a 1k+ word post with a title like "Guide to Cannon Rushing" heres a great explanation provided by the op:

"My qualifications: I have none."
has left the game
techh
Profile Joined June 2010
Iceland82 Posts
September 17 2010 19:59 GMT
#208
ohh wow this seems really complicated, make pylon forge proxy pylon cannons & more pylons? how will i ever succeed, ill stick to normal play man cuz this is too much. cheese is hard guys
rathe
Profile Joined August 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 20:59:52
September 17 2010 20:58 GMT
#209
On September 18 2010 04:51 powernapper wrote:
"I am just a guy who plays starcraft. I am not good at the game. I am not bad at it either. When I play, I am a top 5 Platinum Toss. However, my rank slips because I don’t play that much."

You cannon rush and you're a "top 5" platinum toss, you sir are indeed bad at this game, and people rage because people like you who are "top 5" platinum tosses are able to beat them when they are twice if not thrice better than you. Call me a nerd rager if I call you a skill-less noob but when someone is as ignorant as you that they cannot see that in the long run your cannon rushes will not improve your skill at all. (and don't you dare fucking say something like "my micro becomes a lot better" cause my fucking mom can run a probe away from workers and just mash pylons everywhere)

And for anyone who is wondering who would write a 1k+ word post with a title like "Guide to Cannon Rushing" heres a great explanation provided by the op:

"My qualifications: I have none."



Thanks for the insightful post. To clarify, when I beat someone, how can I tell if they are twice or thrice better than me? I beat a lot of people, and I would like to know how much better they are than me when they lose.

Conversely, when I lose, which I do a lot, how can I tell how much better I am than my opponent? If they rush me and I lose, does that make me twice or thrice better than them?

You clearly have a lot of knowledge in this field, and your expertise would be appreciated. I also think you should contact Blizzard, because your insights could help them a lot with their ranking algorithm.

Rob Hustle - Check out my music mang! - http://www.facebook.com/robhustle
Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
September 17 2010 21:15 GMT
#210
On September 18 2010 03:38 JamieDukes wrote:
lost to cannon rusher earlier ( cannons > zerglings


I don't main Zerg but when it has happened to me I'll make a spinecrawler or two and send the lings to his mineral line. The crawlers are a brick wall to the advancement of the cannons and there usually won't be any cannons at his base that early.
DraWx
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands25 Posts
September 17 2010 21:19 GMT
#211
This is a guide how to make cheese? >_<
DraWx
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands25 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 21:22:21
September 17 2010 21:21 GMT
#212

Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
September 17 2010 22:00 GMT
#213
On September 18 2010 05:58 rathe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 04:51 powernapper wrote:
"I am just a guy who plays starcraft. I am not good at the game. I am not bad at it either. When I play, I am a top 5 Platinum Toss. However, my rank slips because I don’t play that much."

You cannon rush and you're a "top 5" platinum toss, you sir are indeed bad at this game, and people rage because people like you who are "top 5" platinum tosses are able to beat them when they are twice if not thrice better than you. Call me a nerd rager if I call you a skill-less noob but when someone is as ignorant as you that they cannot see that in the long run your cannon rushes will not improve your skill at all. (and don't you dare fucking say something like "my micro becomes a lot better" cause my fucking mom can run a probe away from workers and just mash pylons everywhere)

And for anyone who is wondering who would write a 1k+ word post with a title like "Guide to Cannon Rushing" heres a great explanation provided by the op:

"My qualifications: I have none."



Thanks for the insightful post. To clarify, when I beat someone, how can I tell if they are twice or thrice better than me? I beat a lot of people, and I would like to know how much better they are than me when they lose.

Conversely, when I lose, which I do a lot, how can I tell how much better I am than my opponent? If they rush me and I lose, does that make me twice or thrice better than them?

You clearly have a lot of knowledge in this field, and your expertise would be appreciated. I also think you should contact Blizzard, because your insights could help them a lot with their ranking algorithm.



I think what he was trying to say, less than eloquently, is that "top 5 platinum" IS bad. Cannon rushing is fine if you don't care about getting better at the game and don't mind staying in platinum. But the reality is that it's pretty damn easy to get into diamond just by playing standard and most people on TL would like to get better at the game. The best way to do that is to get better at macro and micro.

I disagree that the people who lose to this are two or three times better than the cheeser. If I lose to cheese then I deserve it. It's kind of silly to accuse the person who beat you of being worse than you. I don't doubt that it is very effective against platinum and low diamond players, but they are by no stretch good at the game. No offense intended, I'm 950 diamond and I'm not good at the game either. Hopefully they are playing to learn and get better, I know that's what I'm doing when I ladder. I never get cannon rushed anymore, however, as I think they have realized that it doesn't work very well at that level. The very few times it does happen are easy to defend and result in a quick win. Besides, they prefer to 2 gate proxy

I don't really mean any offense toward the OP. If you cheese because it's funny and that's how you enjoy the game that's totally fine. Not everybody aspires to be a high level player. But for those who do, I wouldn't make cannon rushing a staple in your arsenal. It was a well written post, though, and the details on how to defend against it should help some people. And like someone said on the first page, if you're going to cheese you might as well do it right.

Pros cheese once in a while in tournaments, it definitely has its place in throwing off your opponent in a 3,5,7 game set. You should know the different cheeses and know how to defend them, and weird unorthodox plays can be awesome. Although you can't really call cannon rushing creative or unorthodox, it's just an easy way to get a quick win against someone who can't handle it. It's part of the game, and I know that if I lose to cheese it's my own fault.
murkk
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada154 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-18 18:55:25
September 18 2010 18:54 GMT
#214
Since I'm a new bronze level player as Terran, I see this a lot. I can sometimes counter it, sometimes not. I was wondering with a different strat though.

I see a protoss move into my base and then disappear while I'm building my barracks
I lift off my base after 1 mins and move it to another location
I lift off my barracks when it's done and move it to another location
I move my workers asap.

Do I lose too much resources doing this?
Will a protoss cannon rusher be able to see this?

Ideally, I'd love him to create a whole lot of cannons that do.... nothing at all.
dsxrflol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
42 Posts
September 18 2010 19:03 GMT
#215
wont work against good players when scouted
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
September 18 2010 19:05 GMT
#216
as with any risky build...

Obviously no strat is all powerful. People should just take strats for what they are and understand the pros and cons.
('''(G_G/'''')
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-18 19:24:07
September 18 2010 19:20 GMT
#217
Really difficult to take this seriously when you say that Zerg is the hardest to cannon rush.

Also, you say that Spine crawler > Cannon but they have the same range, how can a spine get close without dying? You also compare their dmg but forget that cannon's attack cd is 1.25 and spine's is 1.85.


A pretty poor guide overall.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Trailblazer
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom4 Posts
September 18 2010 21:07 GMT
#218
I play Protoss and I'm happy when they cannon rush me, because I just move my probes to my natural and build my base there. then I have loads of zealots and my opponent just spent all their cash on cannons. just don't move right away, let them build several cannons
l90 Proof
Profile Joined July 2010
64 Posts
September 19 2010 00:04 GMT
#219
I just had a pretty epic game v. a good (lol?) cannon rusher. I searched mybase but he came in the moment after I left through dumb luck (shoudl have built my pylon at teh ramp). I was too alte to stop it so I expanded to his 3rd base on steppes, and ended up havign a medium length game, but i was too far behind in econ and his blink stalkers beat me in the end. Quite entertaining.

Lol at the nerd rage in this thread... I wouldn't want to cannon cheese, and doubt there are many actually talented players who do it with any even minor regularity, but it really just adds another dimension to the game.
BiOAtK
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13 Posts
September 19 2010 00:50 GMT
#220
On September 19 2010 04:20 Shikyo wrote:
Also, you say that Spine crawler > Cannon but they have the same range, how can a spine get close without dying?

He means it's a brick wall to them. Have fun trying to build a cannon in range of a spine.
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