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As the title suggests, I'd like to discuss the prospect of a simple little change to Corruptors in an effort to enable more options in ZvT and ZvZ. I propose they are gain a passive ability to attack all units with the 'Massive' attribute. This would mean they could attack Thors and Ultralisks the same way they can attack Colossus. (This wouldn't be an upgrade. This would be innate.)
Lets discuss the implications of this in how it relates to ZvT...
I feel that Muta harass is too easily denied when the T goes mech due to the Thor.
![[image loading]](http://www.superherotimes.com/newsarchive/Thor.jpg) "Hey you! Are you trying to micro Mutas and do something skillful? Not when I'm around bub. Come see my movie in 2011 if you want 2 straight hours of denied Muta harass and Zerg Tears(tm)" (Thors may as well shoot lightning and have the power of the gods as far as Mutalisks are concerned...)
"Muta micro was the best part about playing Zerg. Even Nada says so. But it was more than that – it was what separated the good Zergs from the great, and the Koreans from the foreigners." - Saracen (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120612)
It is quite possible to micro around the God of All Thunder, but it's very very hard. Thors hard-counter Mutas, and that's OK. What's not OK is the micro budget in which they do. 1a is all a Thor needs.
If Corruptors could snipe Thors as if they were Colossi, we'd see a more dynamic game not unlike we see with ZvP. We'd see Vikings support mech to keep Corruptors at bay, and we'd see Mutas living long enough for their user to skillfully utilize them. Perhaps this is the simple nudge Zerg needs to create openings in a mech army?
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gols countered mutas in SC BW with upgrade, they just moved the gols into the base, pressed H, and watched mutas run/die. Thors replaced gols. Thors and Gols>Mutalisks.
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On August 08 2010 13:24 AnxietE wrote:
gols countered mutas in SC BW with upgrade, they just moved the gols into the base, pressed H, and watched mutas run/die. Thors replaced gols. Thors and Gols>Mutalisks.
except people just built missle turrets in their base (which is what they do now), and irradiate made mutas useless? mutas are fine, thor costs a lot of money, and you can take 1-2 easy, especially if they are out of position. just don't do anything dumb like force a harass in their base when you know they are waiting
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I'm good at ZvP, but always lose against T.
Lets make ZvT more like ZvP.
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On August 08 2010 13:24 AnxietE wrote:
gols countered mutas in SC BW with upgrade, they just moved the gols into the base, pressed H, and watched mutas run/die. Thors replaced gols. Thors and Gols>Mutalisks.
GOliaths didn't have splash, and thors have longer range. That and turrets in sc2 is pretty gg. You could also muta micro back then.
Thors are like archons on steroids. wait, they ARE archons on steroids.
Edit: Thors are archons overdosing on steroids (lol they're fat becuz of it). But yea, as a zerg player, i'll take any buffs I can get. Corrupters being able to hit Massives shouldn't be too game breaking in most match-ups.
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The major problem with thors isn't that they nullify mutalisks, its that they're so damn good vs everything on the ground as well as nullifying mutas.
If you rush for mutas in ZvT, you are just asking for 3 thors + whatever else he happens to have walking straight into your main and winning the game right then and there. You want to balance thors for TvZ, just make them not anti-everything-zerg.
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i don't like it, corruptors hitting thors is meh. i'd rather deal with terran other ways then to make corruptors a thor counter, i hate how roach+hydra+corruptor works as a rock paper scissors matchup.
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This is the most sensible suggested change to fix ZvT i've ever seen. I like it, and I'm a terran player.
Its not "NERF TERRAN TO THE GROUND" mentality, and thus, i support it 
A small change but, starcraft is a game of small advantages.
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You're suggesting that the corruptor (air unit, thor counters air hard) should counter the thor? Completely wrecks blizzards rock paper scissors mentality to balancing the units/having the hard counter system.
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On August 08 2010 14:00 deth wrote:
You're suggesting that the corruptor (air unit, thor counters air hard) should counter the thor? Completely wrecks blizzards rock paper scissors mentality to balancing the units/having the hard counter system.
Lol thors DON"T counter air hard, they counter LIGHT air hard. It's just more noticable cause zerg likes to grab mutalisks. Thors lose to void rays 1v1 last time I checked (somewhere in beta lol). Thors only beat (banshees/phoenix (lol)/mutalisk). That's why I like this change. It'd really change up the unit comps available to zerg, and allows a smoother transition into BL.
Mutas in most of the match-ups are better than corruptors in most situation (cept against phoenix).
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This makes no sense though.
Now corruptors can shoot down, but only if the target is big enough? Do they have poor aim or something?
Making broodlords T2 makes more sense than this.
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The reason Thors hurt so much is the natural bunching up of units, and that Thors have strong splash. Missile Turrets now also have splash I think, and so it hurts a lot more.
I think it's because of all of this +bonus versus armor and versus light. And all their hard counters they keep talking about. Oh, Immortals hard counter Roaches and Marauders, and all of that. This unit is good against that, and that unit is good against this.
The reason I think Terran is so effective is that it's easier for Terran to reach a combination where they counter everything you throw at them.
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On August 08 2010 14:14 Jermstuddog wrote:
This makes no sense though.
Now corruptors can shoot down, but only if the target is big enough? Do they have poor aim or something?
Making broodlords T2 makes more sense than this.
Well they can hit colossus because "colossus are so tall", i think it makes sense to have them be able to hit other massive ground as well.
In fact, to add on to that, they should be able to hit starports since they are floating. Okay that was a joke. But I like the ops idea... hope it pans out!
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Baa?21243 Posts
I don't think this alone will do the trick, but I do support it.
Hell, I thought it should. I remember early in Beta I made Corruptors vs. Thors and was confused why they weren't attacking, cause I thought it'd be the same as Colossi.
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It would just make it ZvP = ZvT i think...
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I never understood why colossi are allowed to be hit but thors can't.
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On August 08 2010 14:14 Jermstuddog wrote:
Now corruptors can shoot down, but only if the target is big enough? Do they have poor aim or something?
Hahaha, actually, yes, that's a hillarious way to explain the idea lore-wise.
I hoped people would see the domino effect this change would make for themselves, deeming further explanation unnecessary. However, I feel that some of you need a bit of backstory.
I believe the biggest flaw with Zerg is its inability to gain ground vs an inundated or advancing Terran mech build. Even with an early economic lead due to fast expand, Zerg lacks the ability to harass and press or create an advantage outside of an all-in. As a result, we believe Zerg to be the 'reactionary' race. This is fine for reacting to tech changes, but it means they lack initiative.
There's only a few options:
-Drops (things like Zealot bombs or base harass)
-Burrowed Banelings
-Mutas
I'm completely disregarding any form of burrowed movement harassment because it's not effective past Gold league. I don't think we'll be seeing burrowed Roaches in a mineral line during a tournament anytime soon.
While Banelings are great harassment vs infantry, we're discussing issues with mech army. Drops are a promising tech route, but they're very micro intensive and their effectiveness is yet to be seen competitively. Dropping seems to be mostly Team Liquid theorycraft than anything else. I haven't seen anyone pull it off outside of Idra during the day[9] KOTB tournament- a strategy he admits was an all-in result of winning a battle with help of drones. But I digress.
I'm not saying that these options aren't valid. I'm saying the micro to pull them off is magnitudes higher than the micro required to defend them. In a nutshell I'm saying we need access to easier harassment options. Not so noobs can pull them off, but so it takes comparable micro to defend as it does to attack.
Harassment and pressure are ways to 'punch a hole' in the line of scrimmage between fighters. Corruptors taking out Thors are a way to create that hole. With Thors gone, Mutas are able to harass and snipe Tanks. With Tanks gone, perhaps ground forces can do their thing once again. This is the domino effect my suggestion may create ( I would hope ).
The threat of such a cascade would demand more skill from Terrans to advance and babysit their mech armies. Perhaps we'd see advancing bunkers and missile turrets like the good ol' days of BW. Perhaps Vikings will support Thors to keep Corruptors at bay. The point is that it'd take more skill than it does now to deny harassment on a mech army.
Anyway, now you folks know a bit more of my reasoning.
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I like the idea a lot. Corrupters are only used versus colossus, bc, and carriers so adding a role to them would be very interesting. Corruption would be freaking awesome versus thor so +1 to spell usage.
A spire transition would actually be useful since his 4 thors aren't seemingly invincible with scv repair. This will force a more rounded terran army that can be susceptible to a large ground force if tank numbers are compromised. Ultralisks are really expensive and require you to save resources to actually benefit. Corrupters can simply be added into your army over time and your brood lord transition will be cheapened.
This could impact viking play as well since terran will either mass a ton and again weaken his ground force or let you take air control and have drop + nydus to play around with. Again, brood lords are a nice option if you keep those viking numbers down. Lastly if he decides to make a ton of vikings, you can just fungal growth them and clean up with your corrupters since they fare decently well.
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I support this idea. Would open up more viable strategies against T.
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If I made a thread about healthy food, would it turn into T>Z imbalance thread? Sure.. This is even worse, than people crying about BM in Warcraft3.
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EPT
