EPT
Korean 4 Warpgate All In (vs. Protoss) on the wiki to the best of my ability. Before I go proclaiming it is perfect to the world, I would appreciate it if you would take the time to read over it and fix up what needs fixing. If you're unsure, post up the question here and we can talk about it.[R] Korean Warpgate All In
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Korean 4 Warpgate All In (vs. Protoss) on the wiki to the best of my ability. Before I go proclaiming it is perfect to the world, I would appreciate it if you would take the time to read over it and fix up what needs fixing. If you're unsure, post up the question here and we can talk about it. | ||
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Rea
Germany88 Posts
There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. guess you wanted to link it to the sc2 wiki http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_4_Warpgate_All_In_(vs._Protoss) | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
 I just assumed it worked like that! I feel cheated | ||
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Kerotan89
United Kingdom51 Posts
But is any other protoss getting tired of PvP matches only being a variation of 4gate pushes and there being no macro games? I know I am getting tired of it.. | ||
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green.at
Austria1459 Posts
On August 06 2010 18:36 Kerotan89 wrote: Sigh, nice wiki and im glad you posted counters as well. But is any other protoss getting tired of PvP matches only being a variation of 4gate pushes and there being no macro games? I know I am getting tired of it.. nope not getting tired of any MU though i lose a lot of vsZ MU's lately :D well PvP is a lot of 4gate but i also get long macro games. edit: @ plexa: you link game 1 about 3-4 times, not sure if it is always the same game though  | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
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RefusedAmen
Canada77 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 06 2010 18:40 green.at wrote: nope not getting tired of any MU though i lose a lot of vsZ MU's lately :D well PvP is a lot of 4gate but i also get long macro games. edit: @ plexa: you link game 1 about 3-4 times, not sure if it is always the same game though Game 1 is relevant to that section, so it's the first game illustrating that particular substrategy. | ||
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Colty.colty
United States23 Posts
Q: I've noticed that many of the replays rely on building close to the base. Now, speed of producing pylons + keeping a tight base is nice, but I wanted to know your thoughts about how you go into PvPs anticipating their builds, i.e. if you scout and see they build near the ramp thus you read possible X-gate pressure, or if they're building close to the base, more likely to expect 4 gate or Cyber-tech builds. Do you ever get a read like that and, if so, do you think it's that significant? (I would be throwing in my opinion, but I haven't had many games to play yet and am still in Plat hell, so I'd rather not toss in anecdotes). | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:32 Colty.colty wrote: Hey Plexa, was anticipating the guide, thanks for it. :D Q: I've noticed that many of the replays rely on building close to the base. Now, speed of producing pylons + keeping a tight base is nice, but I wanted to know your thoughts about how you go into PvPs anticipating their builds, i.e. if you scout and see they build near the ramp thus you read possible X-gate pressure, or if they're building close to the base, more likely to expect 4 gate or Cyber-tech builds. Do you ever get a read like that and, if so, do you think it's that significant? (I would be throwing in my opinion, but I haven't had many games to play yet and am still in Plat hell, so I'd rather not toss in anecdotes). I wouldn't read too much into where their initial buildings a located. PvP is all about units at the moment so people aren't usually teching too fast in fear of getting overwhelmed by lots of pressure. You should be able to keep your probe alive in his base until he gets a stalker meaning you'll know what he has and be able to get a solid read on his build. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
nao, go work on PvZ counter muta lings >:D | ||
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alcapowned
Canada25 Posts
So basically my question is, how do i execute this Korean 4gate against Terran if they wall-in? (other than proxy pyloning early game and hoping they don't find it). I was thinking of trying to kill rocks if there were any, or quickly getting a robotics facility to get a warp prism, and load up a immortal into the warpprism as well (1 base gas) | ||
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
i used this strategy a couple of times after i read about it, and I felt like I can make extra pylon(s), probes and maybe a zealot or a stalker and still get 4 gateways ready until warpgateresearch (chronoed all the way) finishes. If i handle my offensive pylons well (i.e. cancel the ones that are totally lost, or unnecessary, if 2 are completely up and zealots morphing) then ill never have ressource problems, and better economy if i have to transition out of it (e.g. in 2on2 or 3on3 matches) Is it just me ? | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
@ viruuus: yes, you can make extra pylons and probe but the 2nd wave and 3rd wave of wrap you WONT have enough mineral for all 4 wrapgates. remember the 1st 4 zealots only an impact, you win mostly bc of wave 2 and wave 3. make extra pylon in the enemy base with your scouting probe is better since if he got enough army out, he can destroy 3 pylons quite easily =) | ||
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wizard944
194 Posts
On August 10 2010 03:36 NB wrote: holy shit, plexa is admin now :D.... I think he's been an admin, but they recently changed the look on people's post when they're an admin. I could be wrong about that though. On topic, this build is pretty awesome and results in a lot of fun rage stories | ||
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NightFury
Canada114 Posts
Just a quick thought I may test out later when I'm off work. The article mentions that you're likely screwed if you're encountering 2 Gate Proxy and suggests throwing up extra gates and trying to wall off. Would it be easier to throw up a forge and a gate to wall off and quickly place a cannon behind your gates? This way zealots shouldn't be able to hack away at your wall for too long or will this response be too slow? You could chronoboost a zealot quickly to buy time while the forge and cannon go up? If he keeps pressuring your wall, you might be able to kill him off with a cannon rush instead? Since he's still at your wall, there should be no time for him to get back home to stop your cannons. If he heads back home, that would open a few options where you can win the game. Anyways, good idea? Bad idea? Does anyone want to test this out since I can't play right now? | ||
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
On August 06 2010 18:36 Kerotan89 wrote: Sigh, nice wiki and im glad you posted counters as well. But is any other protoss getting tired of PvP matches only being a variation of 4gate pushes and there being no macro games? I know I am getting tired of it.. I've played a lot of PvP that went to late game, if you 4 gate and use it to secure an expo the game can last a long time :D edit: Just a quick thought I may test out later when I'm off work. The article mentions that you're likely screwed if you're encountering 2 Gate Proxy and suggests throwing up extra gates and trying to wall off. Would it be easier to throw up a forge and a gate to wall off and quickly place a cannon behind your gates? This way zealots shouldn't be able to hack away at your wall for too long or will this response be too slow? You could chronoboost a zealot quickly to buy time while the forge and cannon go up? If he keeps pressuring your wall, you might be able to kill him off with a cannon rush instead? Since he's still at your wall, there should be no time for him to get back home to stop your cannons. If he heads back home, that would open a few options where you can win the game. Anyways, good idea? Bad idea? Does anyone want to test this out since I can't play right now? This is an interesting idea, Ill try it tonight if I get the opportunity. But since this thread is about 4 gates, a cannon rush doesn't really relate, but it may be a good transition to deal with early pressure. | ||
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NightFury
Canada114 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:00 silencesc wrote: I've played a lot of PvP that went to late game, if you 4 gate and use it to secure an expo the game can last a long time :D edit: This is an interesting idea, Ill try it tonight if I get the opportunity. But since this thread is about 4 gates, a cannon rush doesn't really relate, but it may be a good transition to deal with early pressure. For completeness' sake, having a possible transition out of 4 WarpGate when you see a strategy that will otherwise destroy you is a good idea. If this actually works, it can be used as a method to possibly counter 2 Gate proxy when your original plan was 4 WarpGate. The cannon defense is the key part of surviving such early pressure when your normal build doesn't involve getting early units to defend. If you hold out with cannons, there's a good chance you can proceed with 4 WarpGate and still win since you handily deflected the attack. Since his economy should be hurting from this, 3 WarpGate with the Forge may still be enough to win. However, since you already have the forge and the enemy's base is likely to be undefended, your scouting probe may just be able to win you the game outright. If that's an acceptable strategy, then a quick update on the liquipedia article on this transition would help... instead of the opening lines of vs. 2 Gate proxy = You will most likely die. | ||
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IslandSpice
United States15 Posts
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Toadily
United States837 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On August 11 2010 19:57 rushz0rz wrote:Once, the opponent went 2gate and I was rushed. haven't tried this yet, but what about completely walling of in the first place when you scout 2gate? if you are going 4-warpgate and your opponent tries to rush with 2gate it's do or die anyways? | ||
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LundiZ
Sweden39 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
On August 11 2010 22:12 sleepingdog wrote: haven't tried this yet, but what about completely walling of in the first place when you scout 2gate? if you are going 4-warpgate and your opponent tries to rush with 2gate it's do or die anyways? Yeah, but what units are you going to use to fend it off? It comes quick, usually when I get my cyber up and start chrono boosting warp gate. I usually wall off with my pylon/gateway/cyber but even one zealot causes a lot of trouble. You need to be saving money for pylons to build in their base and the next 3 gateways. If you see 2 gate you need to completely forget this build and react to the 2 gate or you WILL die. You could always try building a bunch of pylons in their base to make him kill those, but some know whats up and that if they cause enough trouble at your base you won't be able to warp them in. EDIT: Just a theorycraft thought, as I was typing the last sentence, you could try walling THEM off at their ramp. I haven't done that yet. You could use those pylons to warp in as well. | ||
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ensign_lee
United States1178 Posts
Anyone who's good at this build willing to be my practice partner? I'd like to find an appropriate way to deal with it once I've scouted it. | ||
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IslandSpice
United States15 Posts
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ellep200
Sweden24 Posts
1) Pulling probes to kill his pylons. If he has good timing with cutting probes for 700-800 minerals for three pylons & first wave of warp in's you're dead. 2) Chronoboosting your 1st stalker to kill off his worker before he can put down pylons. 3) Defending with cannons (this might work if you have your entire sim city built up anticipating a 4gate warp in from 6 supply). 4) 3 gate + ANY sort of tech structure. If you have immortals he will kill you with zealots. If you have void rays he will kill you with stalkers. If you have phoenix you will not be able to hurt him at all. Zergs complain about ZvZ but this is atleast at the same level of retardness blingling is. | ||
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Cham
797 Posts
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
In the canonical build shouldn't you use your first chrono boost after gateway? + Show Spoiler + In my tests (yabot on steppes building pylon adjacent to nexus) chronoing my nexus at 25 energy (maybe 40% through 9th probe) gives me 160 minerals when my 10 pylon finishes with a probe in position to build the gate. Saving the chrono until after gateway leaves me with exactly 150 minerals as the pylon finishes and a probe in position to build the gate. In the former you're spending a chronoboost for 10 minerals and get to 18 probes essentially the same time as if you never chrono boosted, in the latter you get to 18 probes faster since you are constantly producing after the chronoboost. In either case your pylon gate core timings are identical as you the early chronoboosted probe wont even complete one mining trip by the time you build a 10 pylon. In the first version of the Kowi counter, isn't 10 pylon 12 gate strictly inferior to 9 pylon 12 gate? | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On August 12 2010 07:41 Cham wrote: Is there a good way to still use this strategy if the opponent decides to 2 gate zeal rush? Or if you see the 2 gates early, should you back off this strategy? (The article doesn't go too in depth on this, and it seems like most Platinum level toss 2 gate zeal rush) It covers it and provides a replay. X_Gate_Pressure | ||
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