EPTwhen you dont make hydra/muta youll need the evochamber anyways to spend your gas on upgrades :p
[G] ZvT (Not a Balance Thread) - Page 4
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
when you dont make hydra/muta youll need the evochamber anyways to spend your gas on upgrades :p | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 08 2010 07:27 Viruuus wrote: just make 1 sporecrawler in each base? when you dont make hydra/muta youll need the evochamber anyways to spend your gas on upgrades :p Spore crawlers are good vs banshees (obviously), but they won't do much vs Vikings which can still pick off your OL's from beyond their range, though when it's just 1 viking you can queen defend of course. Either way a big part of the problem is scouting it. I need to hit the Starport when.. -It has a tech lab on it -A reactor and only 1 rax down -spot vikings coming out of it/hanging around. If the starport is there and there's more than 1 rax it might be medivacs for bio. If the starport is there and naked it might be for a tank or Thor drop (I suppose spore crawlers would still help here) The other hard part I'm unsure how to deal with is how do I know when to commit and when to stop on air defense. If I see 1 banshee do I just sit on one spore crawler or is he going to pump more? Same with vikings. It's a real shame to have to sac 2 overlords (provided vikings don't snipe them before they scout) within 40-60 seconds of each other =/. Well overseer works too. | ||
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JinjoBust
Korea (North)130 Posts
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
I've been having a lot of success using nothing but Roaches, Speedlings (Banelings when and if necessary) and Queens for base Defending, they seem to counter any Terran Unit composition quite nicely, and are very cheap. But as Logo said the only real problem is when the Terran player goes Viking it's very hard to defend your overlords due to their range. | ||
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AncienTs
Japan227 Posts
I'm a protoss player but I'm highly interested in the ZvT metagame :3 | ||
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SpiciestZerg
United States154 Posts
Two things I'd like to add however 1) like any build scouting is key. The 2 things that can cause problems for me are banshees and preigniter helions. Regular ones are pushovers but the +10 vs light makes lings obsolete and banelings explode before reaching anything. Banshees arent actually too bad, but you do have to transition out when you start seeing them. 2) When my lair finishes (i think i get my lair later then the OP suggested) I immediately morph in two overseers, they are great scouts and now i can delay any tech by 60 seconds. on other note I find zling speed not as necessary as some do so i usually opt for more minerals by delaying my extractor until after my pool is up edit: if they dont have a raven yet (likely) delaying it with contaminate basically makes any kind of mech push impossible since you have burrow-move roaches | ||
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SanBia
47 Posts
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
And the whole queen ball idea is weak IMO because of the lack of mobility. Basically your giving your opponent to harass, stop you from expanding, etc. Basically, I think your relying to much on the idea that the Terran will not adapt to your build, will not abuse your immobility air wise, and just continue with some regular stuff. This build is too easily scoutable for this to be true. | ||
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Gannon_34
United States15 Posts
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[-]Ocelot[-]
United States256 Posts
Right after I read this thread, I hopped on battle.net and played a few games, and figured I'd implement these strategies as best I can in my play. The results are great. Instead of holding around teching to T2 units that get wrecked by the terran ball, I felt a lot more free using my T1 units (with T2 upgrades) and then transitioning to T2 units when my economy was in place. Disclaimer: I am a fairly average platinum player. I try to play my best and always keep up on everything I need too, but I still have much to work on, so I ask your forgiveness in some of my non-standard and mis-timed play. Game 1 KlausRaynor(me) v daxile Diamond player with a decent amount of games under his belt. I go for a 14 hatch -> 15pool opening. I do make quite a few mistakes and actually kinda "cheat" by using a nydus canal (hey this can work great too!) Decided for the nydus because just as I was about to scout his base with my overlord, I realized I could plop a nydus in the back of his base and work some damage in from there. Seems to have worked, gg. Game 2 KlausRaynor v Jay This game is a bit more standard, in that I take him head on. I go 14pool -> 16expo then get a roach warren as lair is morphing, and a baneling nest shortly after that (note also I wouldn't recommend following these builds exactly, they are extremely flawed and not as thought out as they should be) Again forgive my small micro and macro mistakes, but with this I am able to fend off a small reaper harass, as well as repeated marauder/hellion attacks at my door (I build two spine crawlers to help with defense). hopefully more people will submit higher level games to supplement these few examples. any critique on my play is fine, but I more than likely already know most of the flaws in my game. These are used explicitly to reinforce the fact that I felt a lot more comfortable against terran using these builds. Take from these replays what you will. | ||
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Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
I still feel forced to make mutas way to often. Marauder/helion pushes I fear so much. Marauders own spines, marauders are cost efficient vs roaches, helions are cost efficient vs lings. Also terran has way better eco in the start of the game thanks to mules and not having to use larvae for army. First, stop thinking in hard counters. When e-famous people like Day9 start making incomprehensible noises whenever the word is mentioned, it's time to stop using it Day9 says there are no hard counters. But man if someone puts pressure on you with an army that is more efficient vs yours while having better economy the only way you should come out on top in that situation is being a superior player. Or is this tactic relying on getting a perfect surround on his force in the battle to have a chance at winning and if we fail once we loose? What if the T actually makes an effort and also micros his units? Rauders shell kite roaches. Sure lings can surround and keep them in place but what are the helions used for? Getting helions surrounded bu roaches sounds silly, and getting surround with speedlings is probably as easy as avoid getting surrounded by the helions. To overcome this I feel mutas are my only choice as they are very efficient vs marauders and helions. Naturally if T goes something like marine thor to start with its very easy to deal with. But why would they if they scout you on pure t1 units? | ||
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[-]Ocelot[-]
United States256 Posts
If you fight his army at your static D, you'll come out the victor, which teching to T2. Of course it's somewhat map and skill dependent, but your economy should be fairly strong at this point and you should have the resources and larva to fend off his marauder/hellion till your muta come. | ||
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JinjoBust
Korea (North)130 Posts
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
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Nivoh
Norway259 Posts
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Laggy
United States385 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/53852-1v1-terran-zerg-blistering-sands http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/53852-1v1-terran-zerg-blistering-sands http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/53853-1v1-terran-zerg-delta-quadrant Please note, this is my variation of Jinjo's AMAZING strategy. It really works, in my replays you will see me defend hellions with upgraded flame thrower with tanks and a thor push. Bio+tank pushes. Enjoy, remember to GG it on the site. Also I'm thinking of doing commentary for it and putting it on youtube but I am not sure, if people say go for it I'll do it. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On August 09 2010 05:01 Izzachar wrote: Or is this tactic relying on getting a perfect surround on his force in the battle to have a chance at winning and if we fail once we loose? What if the T actually makes an effort and also micros his units? Rauders shell kite roaches. Sure lings can surround and keep them in place but what are the helions used for? Getting helions surrounded bu roaches sounds silly, and getting surround with speedlings is probably as easy as avoid getting surrounded by the helions. Er, have you played broodwar? Getting epic surrounds with ling or lurker/ling was really the only thing stopping you from getting rolled in standard TvZ. | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
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Phayze
Canada2029 Posts
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
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