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Ok, so while The beta was down I practiced a lot with the yabot maps and other build order testers and did a build that seems to be pretty legit. What I'm talking about is a 6 zergling 7 roach rush that finish at 3:45 seconds in and will arrive at their base at 4 minutes or so (I should say this is better on closer maps and not usable on desert oasis.
9 ovie
Scout on 12
13 pool
15 extractor, ovie
15 2x zergling, queen
19 1x zergling
20 Roach warren
20 queen
Roach warren will pop and shortly after there will be 3 eggs for first batch of roach's; Shortly afterwords the first batch of eggs will pop and you can make 4 more Roach's for a total of 34/34 and do your attack.
After your First roaches pop and you have enough for the next make a 2nd extractor, ovie, lair and another drone (or you can take drones off gas and expand here, but I found that inefficient). When the ovie pops drone to 39 -x (where x is the number of army lost) and make a hatch with your next 300 minerals. By this point your timing attack will have done a massive amount of damage and you will be sitting on 2 base with multiple options
1. tech to muta and further harass
2. take a third and play it safe
3. Go for the kill
This leads to a huge advantage for you any way you go about it because you start out with a semi all in build and then spring forward in economy and quickly pass the opponent because of zergs larvae production. While this isn't "Breaking the game" (and I wouldn't treat it as such) it is very powerful if your opponent doesn't wall in or messes up on their wall in. If you do scout wall-in then you should do a hatch at 20 instead of a roach warren and get zerg speed with first 100 gas (you can switch around the hatch and the army for hatch on 16); Or you can go for extractor at 13 w/ pool and go for quicker speed and transition into a ling harass or baneling shenanigans. The emphasis I am trying to make is that this is not an all in strategy but has the brute strength similar to one.
Questions? Comments? Things that are improvable?
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/7768
This is the only replay I have at the moment. I have work tomorrow, so I hope that suffices for now.
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is awesome32274 Posts
Did you try this out? Do you have replays?
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Will try it 
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Seems like Protoss would have some trouble holding this off, although I think a walled in Terran would be pretty safe unless they skimped on early marines.
One base Roach was very popular before Roaches got nerfed.
I think a good follow up would be expanding as you're attacking, possibly building some spine crawlers in case they have a strong counter-push, as Zergs have trouble on one base without that second larva producing building.
Also, you should read the strategy forum guidelines before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479
Threads should have a bracketted tag and threads with specific builds should have replays where the strategy is used.
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On July 16 2010 17:36 Number wrote:Seems like Protoss would have some trouble holding this off, although I think a walled in Terran would be pretty safe unless they skimped on early marines. One base Roach was very popular before Roaches got nerfed. I think a good follow up would be expanding as you're attacking, possibly building some spine crawlers in case they have a strong counter-push, as Zergs have trouble on one base without that second larva producing building. Also, you should read the strategy forum guidelines before posting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479Threads should have a bracketted tag and threads with specific builds should have replays where the strategy is used.
I started employing it against protoss first but moved to terran as well. I doubt it will work terribly well against walled in terran but your scouting should have seen that anyway.
Because the drone count is only 16 until you attack at 4 mins in, I preferred to expand after I got my drone count up by at least 5. The problem with a counter attack on this build is that it is only 4 minutes into the game, Even if you 2 base as toss you can't really hope to beat 7 Roaches and 6 lings; And in the hypothetical situation where your opponent sticks a couple zealots outside your base hidden and has a wall up you can just retreat and pressure his expansions.
I will indeed peruse the guidelines. I would post a replay but I just reformatted my computer and don't have any (and no beta atm)
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On July 16 2010 17:39 teamsolid wrote:
Is this for ZvP or ZvT?
Primarily ZvP but it works against Terran as well (not as efficient against wall-ins as baneling busts are though).
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I've tried something similar and it works very well vs meching terrans that uses a supply in their wall-off. If the terran goes for MMM it is pretty much not working at all though (at least that's my experience).
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I will give this a try, I was looking for some zerg early pressure builds.
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I must try this as well
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I do about the exact same build to roach rush, only I use it mostly for 2V2. My 2V2 partner is Terran, a Zerg/roach + MM early game push can be hard to stop 2V1. I don't really have a follow up though. Most of the time we just push on through to the second opponent.
I would think a quick lair is a good idea after a roach push. Pretty much all the opponent's counter pushes will require lair units to counter, be it air or immortal or something else.
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Just giving instructions usually isn't the ideal. You should post some replays too.
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Since I don't have the beta to play against other people, I went into the Build order tester and went for a heavy force to show how effective this attack would be if they don't wall in.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Netherlands19135 Posts
Edit that to your OP with more then one replay. Else I'm closing this down.
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Someone did this vs me yesterday.
[url blocked]
It was RvR so I didn't wall with gate/core I did it with 2nd/3rd gates. Rush arrives with 1 zealot 1 sentry and 1 stalker up, maybe 2 zealots.
I lost a stalker and zealot to poor micro and still held it off easily, having nearly double his workers because I wasn't really diverting chrono boost at all. (Helped get the 4 gates up though, not sure exactly if i should have cut probes at 16/3/3 just to be safe)
Can't be described as anything but all-in, like all agressive early game zerg plays, because you can't keep up in worker count if you want to be agressive, especially vs protoss. Terrans just need a few marauders and you won't have ling speed in time to defend.
If you want to be agressive as zerg it should be after you secure 2 bases.
And no you can't spring forward in economy because if your rush is defended he will be able to outmass you and will already have way more workers than him.
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@OP your replay doesn't work with my version of SC2 (latest). I'm on EU though, could this interfere?
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On July 16 2010 20:48 Slayer91 wrote:
Someone did this vs me yesterday.
[url blocked]
It was RvR so I didn't wall with gate/core I did it with 2nd/3rd gates. Rush arrives with 1 zealot 1 sentry and 1 stalker up, maybe 2 zealots.
I lost a stalker and zealot to poor micro and still held it off easily, having nearly double his workers because I wasn't really diverting chrono boost at all. (Helped get the 4 gates up though, not sure exactly if i should have cut probes at 16/3/3 just to be safe)
Can't be described as anything but all-in, like all agressive early game zerg plays, because you can't keep up in worker count if you want to be agressive, especially vs protoss. Terrans just need a few marauders and you won't have ling speed in time to defend.
If you want to be agressive as zerg it should be after you secure 2 bases.
And no you can't spring forward in economy because if your rush is defended he will be able to outmass you and will already have way more workers than him.
I watched your video and noticed that your opponent was doing the attack a lot slower and you guys were on a map that I would not recommend. The differences cost him a minute or so and at the time he should have been attacking you hadn't made your semi-wall in. If he had used the exact same timing attack I am proposing he probably would have left you w/ very little to no probes.
You said that you didn't do your normal PvZ wall in which is why this isn't a good example of this because if you had the scout on 12 instead of 10 would have seen it and I would have transitioned to a ling w/ speed and hatch play.
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On July 16 2010 20:55 ayadew wrote:
@OP your replay doesn't work with my version of SC2 (latest). I'm on EU though, could this interfere?
I don't know, It might be because the build order tester was made prior to Beta phase 2 was brought back but aside from that you should be able to watch it. I'm sorry 
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Going Roaches really early (often before Lingspeed. Sometimes before FE) is the Korean style atm afaik.
Even if you FE before, you have a timing (and an option) to attack the opponent. With just Lings, you can't break a Wall off.
Transitions from this Roaches style are also very wide because Roach is such a versitile unit and a great addition to any army.
-Banelings into Overlord Drop for carpet bombing against Terran.
-Roaches and Infestor Burrow for harrass and against Tanks.
-Roach Hydra (solid early upgrades style) against Toss
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz25/ixi_genocide/Screenshot2010-07-1603_37_17.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz25/ixi_genocide/Screenshot2010-07-1603_22_29.jpg)
