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On July 17 2010 23:15 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 02:17 Chronocide wrote:
I've been doing something similar:
9 ovie
14 pool
13 extractor
@100 gas, speed
17 roach warren
16 queen
18 ovie
then I make 6 roaches. After the roaches are leaving my base, I rally to them and start pumping zerglings, because they can catch up so easily.
not sure what you guys think of that - I'm fairly new to the game Why get ling speed when you're not going to be using lings early? I do a similar build but get gas on 15 so that I have 100 gas when my queen pops out to start my lair.
If you don't get ling speed you can be kited by Stalkers or Hellions, and it also means I can get more lings to reinforce the front faster. Also needed vs reapers. I used to cut speed as well but I just felt too vulnerable.
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I've been playing with fast roach attacks in ZvP a lot lately, they are pretty fantastic... will have 2 try this one out!
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This sort of pushes work better vs. terran imo. Dunno, it just feels they skip units early more often, and use lots of time building techlabs&reactors and eventually they have no beneficial units coming out from any of them against roaches.
Toss on other hand should have some stalkers up by then. If he doesn't, there's lot of time to stall by walling with gates and such.
I don't think 1base speedling+roach build can have followup. It's all-in, you might just go for standard FE if you want to play longer game. The push works if it throws opponent offguard, and you better use all your time to finish him off, not just kill most of his army.
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Why is every attack a "timing attack" nowadays?
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On July 18 2010 12:40 PJA wrote:
Why is every attack a "timing attack" nowadays?
Because it is a specific time in which the attack takes place to maximize it's utility.
"If I push now, he won't have defilers for adequate defense" is not too different than "If I push now, he won't have units for adequate defense"
It would be a bad time to attack if you thought "I'm going to build up a bunch of units, than drone hard for a minute than get supply blocked, and then attack."
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I tried this twice. Once I killed a diamond toss trying to blink stalker me.
Other time managed to weaken a terran that i finished off with mutalisks 
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Stalkers with micro shut down roaches quite hard if you see this coming. Especially if they can get a sentry up for some FFs.
If someone builds too many zealots or doesn't see it coming-- yeah, very effective.
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What maps do you find this build to be beneficial on? Short rush distances like Steppes? or some of the large 4 player maps?
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On July 19 2010 02:11 Brazen[six] wrote:
What maps do you find this build to be beneficial on? Short rush distances like Steppes? or some of the large 4 player maps?
Well since you don't get speed on either the roaches or lings and the roaches pop at about 4:30 game time, it'll take at least another minute for them to get to a cross-position base on something like Kulas. If that were so and there was any sort of stalker resistance, the push would be immediately shut down.
Seems like it's only viable in maps like Steppes.
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I tried this four times last night and got myself three wins. I beat 1 terran on steppes and 2 protoss on lost temple and scrap station, and lost to the toss on metropolis. The time I lost was because toss went early stalkers and by the time I got there he had 4 stalkers and 1 zealot and shorty after we started fighting 2 more stalkers popped and my rush got shut down. However this was my first attempt at this and I didn't have a gameplan after. Now I do, you transition into hydras vs toss for sure. If, during my toss loss I macrod better and got a lair/hydra den going while the attack was happening while pumping drones I would have had 6 hydras before his stalkers showed up maybe some lings also. As it was, I had about 600 minerals and I saw him coming so I made 2 spincrawlers and as many roaches as I could. If it was hydras I think I would have been fine.
In the other three games the force was just too large and they were crushed. The terran just had a few marines and a hellion. I just killed his supply depot and destroyed him. The tosses had a mix of zealot/stalkers but if it's only 2 or 3 stalkers it isn't a problem for 7 roaches. I am going to keep using this, I really enjoy it.
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EPT
