Hi guys, I'm mid-high plat (now diamond) Terran. I'm a decent player in normal games but don't laugh at me - I'm extremely vulnerable against any form of in-base proxy by toss. Let's say I lose 90% of the time.
I just lost a game on blistering sands where he made a pylon down the high ground near my back door and made two in-base proxy gates. I was trying to wall-in before seeing this. I managed to get 2 bunkers to protect the mineral line and then carelessly lost a rax due to being so pissed off, again - but it won't affect the result that much, because the game soon ended.
And it went like this: when I had one marine, he managed to get a zeal out. when I had two marines, he had 3 when I had tree marines, he had 5 Then I saw his cannon and I typed out.
Question: Should I try to kill off the gates with 7-8 scvs? - my guess is no way. he made two gates so he will manage to get zealots out anyway and I will lose all my economy. Should I not make bunkers? - I suppose at least I should make one? otherwise how am I supposed to handle this 1v1, 2v3, 3v5 situation? How do I stop his cannon?
I encountered rush like this at least 3 or 4 times a day, on my level. So I'm guessing it really works on some people, like me. They are doing this so often because they see this being viable and beneficial. What are your ideas? Please kindly offer your suggestion. Many thanks!
Screenshots:
1:37 - first gate. I was doing the 10 depot 11 rax wall-in
1:54 - second gate
3:13 - 1 on 1 situation. my marine was delayed like 5 seconds as I decided to put a bunker first.
3:40 - 2 on 3 situation. I simply gave up my wall as it is impossible to defend
4:08 - 3 on 5 situation. and his forge is being built
Just happened to me about 2 minutes ago. It's incredibly frustrating. I scouted his base after making my first pylon and noticed he had nothing, so I quickly grabbed a probe and checked my base and found two pylons and a gateway. I sent over around 5-7 probes to try to surround the zealot and kill him but he just kept making more zlots and I couldn't keep up with it. Best way I can say to avoid it is to just try to build at your front faster so you can see if a probe gets through, and try to check your base as often as possible.
What I like to do to counter (or prevent it from happening in the first place) P proxy is to proxy them as T. See the replay below, its basically a bunker-contain with tanks, I was quite careless actually losing far to many tanks doing the push, however it successfully contained the turtling P and when his resources got stretched to far I eventually over-took him.
If he tried to proxy probe my main I would have had a Marauder with concussive out and that would have dealt with it. The strategy in my replay I started using specifically to stop those pesky P proxies. My game is from high Platinum by the way.
Edit: If you want a direct answer then here it is. Do 10 depot 11 rax 12 gas, and pump out a marauder ASAP with concussive. Also versus P if you fear proxies or simply have problems with them then you must be sure to close off the entrance to your base as soon as possible, even cutting SCVs to do so is better than leaving it open and getting proxied. The Marauder will come out about 30 seconds later than your first Marine, however if you act fast and kill the probe with Concussive so it cannot be microed away then you will be set to stopping the proxy.
Yes you pull scvs and kill his gateways. If it happens to you alot figure out exactly how many scvs you need to kill his gateway before the first zealot pops out. Since terran simcity doesn't work in sc2 you have to pull scvs.
SC1 example. It's the same thing except the gateways aren't in your mineral line
edit: Oh ya there are reapers. 1 marine -> tech lab -> reapers as a followup
On May 27 2010 12:59 SichuanPanda wrote: If he tried to proxy probe my main I would have had a Marauder with concussive out and that would have dealt with it. The strategy in my replay I started using specifically to stop those pesky P proxies. My game is from high Platinum by the way.
Edit: If you want a direct answer then here it is. Do 10 depot 11 rax 12 gas, and pump out a marauder ASAP with concussive. Also versus P if you fear proxies or simply have problems with them then you must be sure to close off the entrance to your base as soon as possible, even cutting SCVs to do so is better than leaving it open and getting proxied. The Marauder will come out about 30 seconds later than your first Marine, however if you act fast and kill the probe with Concussive so it cannot be microed away then you will be set to stopping the proxy.
sounds like an idea. but i seems that P will simply destroy the tech lab to deny any research. If I were the rushing toss, I would surely choose to do that. What are your thoughts on that? appreciate your input.
On May 27 2010 13:16 kNyTTyM wrote: Yes you pull scvs and kill his gateways. If it happens to you alot figure out exactly how many scvs you need to kill his gateway before the first zealot pops out. Since terran simcity doesn't work in sc2 you have to pull scvs.
edit: Oh ya there are reapers. 1 marine -> tech lab -> reapers as a followup
He made two gates @ 1:37 and 1:54. Which one do I kill? I had about 10 scvs by the time I saw him building the first gate. Do I pull 8 leaving 2 mining and building rax? that way I could manage killing one of the gates and lose 90% of my economy and he still has one gate operational.
It comes in the end like this. He will constantly make chrono-boosted zealots and accumulate them till totally outnumbering my marines while I had not enough money for constant troops and any further upgrades. I will have no bunker, so it's easy to lose marines within a blink of eye, due to mistakes in micro or simply lag issue.
On May 27 2010 13:16 kNyTTyM wrote: Yes you pull scvs and kill his gateways. If it happens to you alot figure out exactly how many scvs you need to kill his gateway before the first zealot pops out. Since terran simcity doesn't work in sc2 you have to pull scvs.
edit: Oh ya there are reapers. 1 marine -> tech lab -> reapers as a followup
He made two gates @ 1:37 and 1:54. Which one do I kill? I had about 10 scvs by the time I saw him building the first gate. Do I pull 8 leaving 2 mining and building rax? that way I could manage killing one of the gates and lose 90% of my economy and he still has one gate operational.
It comes in the end like this. He will constantly make chrono-boosted zealots and accumulate them till totally outnumbering my marines while I had not enough money for constant troops and any further upgrades. I will have no bunker, so it's easy to lose marines within a blink of eye, due to mistakes in micro or simply lag issue.
You kill the first one made. are you sure it takes 8 scvs to kill a gateway? Also you have mule so your economy isn't too bad. Lemme go try it out scv vs gateway and I'll get back to you.
edit: with just some very basic testing if your scvs starting attacking his gateway right as it starts 4 kills gate before zealot comes out. 5 kills right as gateway finishes. 6 kills gate before it finishes
so another test shows an scv does about 65 damage in the period it takes for a zealot to chrono out. 4 scvs do about 280. Gauge how much hp the gateway will have when it completes and attach scvs accordingly.
last edit: 4 on first gateway to kill it before chrono zealot comes out. 5 if you see it late. 1-3 on second gateway then when first gateway is killed move all scvs to attacking second gateway. If your 1 marine and 1 zealot comes out it true, you will have a marine before his first zealot since first gate is dead. Hinder the zealot with marine and kill gate with scvs. You are now in a huge winning position. Yipee!
Question: Should I try to kill off the gates with 7-8 scvs? - my guess is no way. he made two gates so he will manage to get zealots out anyway and I will lose all my economy. Should I not make bunkers? - I suppose at least I should make one? otherwise how am I supposed to handle this 1v1, 2v3, 3v5 situation? How do I stop his cannon?
Don't pull all your scv's just 2-3 to help you kill the probe, (3:13 pic looks like prime time for the kill)
One bunker should be good and judging by your last picture you need to work on your sim-city to make the zealots less effective.
If the probe is toast then there are no cannons, after that just take out his pylons(at least force him to defend them)/tech marauders.
On May 27 2010 13:16 kNyTTyM wrote: Yes you pull scvs and kill his gateways. If it happens to you alot figure out exactly how many scvs you need to kill his gateway before the first zealot pops out. Since terran simcity doesn't work in sc2 you have to pull scvs.
edit: Oh ya there are reapers. 1 marine -> tech lab -> reapers as a followup
He made two gates @ 1:37 and 1:54. Which one do I kill? I had about 10 scvs by the time I saw him building the first gate. Do I pull 8 leaving 2 mining and building rax? that way I could manage killing one of the gates and lose 90% of my economy and he still has one gate operational.
It comes in the end like this. He will constantly make chrono-boosted zealots and accumulate them till totally outnumbering my marines while I had not enough money for constant troops and any further upgrades. I will have no bunker, so it's easy to lose marines within a blink of eye, due to mistakes in micro or simply lag issue.
You kill the first one made. are you sure it takes 8 scvs to kill a gateway? Also you have mule so your economy isn't too bad. Lemme go try it out scv vs gateway and I'll get back to you.
edit: with just some very basic testing if your scvs starting attacking his gateway right as it starts 4 kills gate before zealot comes out. 5 kills right as gateway finishes. 6 kills gate before it finishes
so another test shows an scv does about 65 damage in the period it takes for a zealot to chrono out. 4 scvs do about 280. Gauge how much hp the gateway will have when it completes and attach scvs accordingly.
last edit: 4 on first gateway to kill it before chrono zealot comes out. 5 if you see it late. 1-3 on second gateway then when first gateway is killed move all scvs to attacking second gateway. If your 1 marine and 1 zealot comes out it true, you will have a marine before his first zealot since first gate is dead. Hinder the zealot with marine and kill gate with scvs. You are now in a huge winning position. Yipee!
Thank you for the test. I would probably rely on your data and try some more. Yes, if 4-5 scvs would be effective against a gate, I will surely do that next time. If he builds two gates like in the screenshot, I will pull 8-9 scvs, which will be almost all I got. But if it really works, I suppose it's worth it.
Question: Should I try to kill off the gates with 7-8 scvs? - my guess is no way. he made two gates so he will manage to get zealots out anyway and I will lose all my economy. Should I not make bunkers? - I suppose at least I should make one? otherwise how am I supposed to handle this 1v1, 2v3, 3v5 situation? How do I stop his cannon?
Don't pull all your scv's just 2-3 to help you kill the probe, (3:13 pic looks like prime time for the kill)
One bunker should be good and judging by your last picture you need to work on your sim-city to make the zealots less effective.
If the probe is toast then there are no cannons, after that just take out his pylons(at least force him to defend them)/tech marauders.
and remember, if you barely survive you're ahead.
You are suggesting I base my defense totally on the assumption that I'm able to kill off his probe. In real battle, I don't think that's so easy.
definitely difficult to just kill his probe. Getting the surround takes good micro and because he's toss, he can just warp in his building. Above posters are correct in that hitting the gateway is your best chance for survival. Also, make sure when your marines pop out, you are tanking with SCV's so your marines aren't taking damage.
Whenever I have a protoss proxy me, I send one zealot straight to his mineral line since I know there will be nothing there to defend them. I'd assume that a marine or marauder would be fairly effective as well, but a bit more APM taxing since you'd have to kite. I'd say your best bet to beat this kind of play is to make a fairly fast rax and go straight to a marauder with concussive, as has already been stated. Any probes in your base will die very fast, and you can kill quite a few zealots with 1-2 marauders.
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