EPTPersonally I think a 4 gate early push and expand has a HUGE advantage over a 2-3 gate immortal build. Generally there will only be 1-2 immortals, ~8 stalkers/zealots/sentries vs my 18-20 gateway group. If he holds off your initial push, tech charge and go zealot heavy to take out the immortals.
PvP builds explained by Huk and Whiplash - Page 2
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DamageInq
United States283 Posts
Personally I think a 4 gate early push and expand has a HUGE advantage over a 2-3 gate immortal build. Generally there will only be 1-2 immortals, ~8 stalkers/zealots/sentries vs my 18-20 gateway group. If he holds off your initial push, tech charge and go zealot heavy to take out the immortals. | ||
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
On May 12 2010 20:27 DamageInq wrote: Based on this Robo would be the best blind choice every time. well, yeah, but thats assuming that everyone you play against has an equal chance to do one of the 5 or 6 builds they listed here, which is not the case, since robo counters the most, it is therefor the most commonly used, making the build that specifically counters this much more viable than if everyone you played against was rolling a dice on which build to go... Then you get into the situation of "well, he thinks imma go collosi, and go voidray, so i should go blink stalker" then the other person levels you by actually going robo and immo's instead etc. etc. Hence why a lot of people believe the idea of mirror MUs to be rock paper scissors(Not saying I do, just its obvious where it comes from ;P). | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
On May 12 2010 20:27 DamageInq wrote: Based on this Robo would be the best blind choice every time. I think it's moreso that "Robo build would be the best choice MOST of the time", with the other builds thrown in to vary your play and prevent the opponent to simply counter a Robo build. Not that I play P or anything. Just wanted this particular statement. | ||
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Infiltrator
Montenegro80 Posts
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
That said, I agree with the other posters that 4-5 warpgate should crush 3gate immortal. You're heavy on zealot/sentry, making his immortals worthless, and then you go into infinite forcefield on his ramp (or straight up kill him if there's no ramp to split your troops) while you expo and tech to colossus. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Also all these builds are 1 base apparently, is there any reason why a decently fast expansion (say 25 population) with some cannons is impossible? Blink stalkers and colossi don't care much about a cannon defense but 4 gate for example does. Going by this chart colossi build seems best as long as you scout that your opponent didn't go stargate. I actually agree with this, so regardless of the method I do agree with the outcome. Personally I think PvP on most maps is just about who has the most colossi, especially since the sentry nerf, you just have to reach that point safely which is difficult as the initial investment of robo and support bay is quite big. Scouting and determining when to make your robo and support bay is key to understanding this matchup but as long as you can defend while starting the colossus' race first you have a big advantage. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3359 Posts
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phamou
Canada193 Posts
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
For example you put 4-5 gate all-in as ≤ 2-3 gate immortal and in the description you say that 4-5gate allin is ahead early on then falls behind. The 4-5gate all-in is as you've allready described in the name of the build *an all-in*. this is like saying going fast dt drop in pvt puts you behind *insert random build* the times you dont do any damage, well duh. Another example, you put dark templar rush ahead of 2-4gate mass blink stalker. The player going stalker isnt going to have detection but you're playing a hyper aggressive build getting a lot of units early on versus a tech build. Unless the player teching dt's outplay his opponent in someway he's not going to survive to get dts or if he does he wont without taking damage and/or his tech being scouted before it's finished. Then there's also map considerations, like mass blink stalker as well as mass zeal/sentry are much stronger on blistering sands than on other maps. Adding the fact that a good player can adapt his build based on what he scouts claiming that pvp is like rock paper scissor is just as misguided a description in sc2 as it was in bw. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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Weasel-
Canada1556 Posts
I think the best transition out of an immortal opening once you scout an enemy's 4 warpgate build is to throw down a stargate. When they see immortals they're likely to stop building stalkers, at which point you hit their mostly zealot/sentry composition with void rays/phoenixes along with the rest of your gateway army and hopefully come out ahead. | ||
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HuK
Canada1591 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On May 12 2010 17:06 NzaR wrote: Nice read, although the graph might suggest that its a rock-paper-scissors match up when it's really not. So to everyone, please do read the rest of the article. suggest? The OP outright says that it is a rock-paper-scissors matchup: On May 12 2010 16:24 Whiplash wrote: As of now PvP can be accurately described as a rock paper scissors match up. btw you can probably condense the chart to: -robo-builds -warpgate builds -stargate builds -templar build | ||
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KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
I think Warpgate/Robotics builds that don't go Colossi can come out ahead of Colossi builds by expanding faster and then going Phoenix. I think DT builds can often do better than you think against builds that get Observers. Usually, a Robotics player gets only one Observer and by the time he sees his opponent going DT's, the DT's are at this base. Then the Observer has to fly all the way back and that time period can really hurt. After the DT tech, the DT player can play 4-5 Warpgate without having to worry about anti-air or detection. | ||
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Clearout
Norway1060 Posts
Thank you | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On May 12 2010 23:34 Liquid`NonY wrote: I think DT builds can often do better than you think against builds that get Observers. Usually, a Robotics player gets only one Observer and by the time he sees his opponent going DT's, the DT's are at this base. Then the Observer has to fly all the way back and that time period can really hurt. After the DT tech, the DT player can play 4-5 Warpgate without having to worry about anti-air or detection. Very true. You can rack up quite a number of kills if the defending player doesn't have multiple observers/cannons. In addition you can still pin him in his base long enough to transition. | ||
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beakermimi
Ireland13 Posts
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Splendour
Bulgaria129 Posts
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Tanatos
United States381 Posts
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