EPT[G] Ghost mech Terran vs Protoss - Page 10
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Agh
United States934 Posts
Going to have the Observer out after the first immortal for vision. At that point front is either going to be breached, or I'm going to stop production and get my 3rd. I personally expect the 1:1:1 mass rine as it was more or less 80%+ of what the terrans were running before beta downtime, so I have my council built. If you didn't get stomped by the stalker + immortal + couple zealots then the expansion is free; Also I wont bother with charge once I see the lack of marines, and more importantly hellions as your non-gass dump units. Natural and dark shrine will go down without problem. If you siege turtle and take natural then a 3rd will be grabbed by the toss asap. While this is a nice strat on paper any player with barely semi-decent scouting should be able to stop this. Relying solely on the raven as a crutch for pdd and detection wont do much against stalkers that will have blink, and the warp prism to harass and drops. Just too gas heavy and without fear of the bio/infantry more or less forcing storm/collossi to compete just don't think it will fly. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On June 02 2010 14:45 Salv wrote: You don't know what you're talking about here. Void rays lose to vikings, always. Even if you manage to charge your void rays up before the battle, the vikings will still win as long as the resource count between armies is even. Vikings build quicker, and you can build two at a time. Mass void ray will work only if you were able to hide it, and the opponent didn't know it was coming, in which case they wouldn't be massing their own viking force. However in a situation like that, the Terran would be incompetent. Vikings lose very slightly to carrier, and lose slightly to phoenixes. But considering phoenixes can't do much against the remaining ground force, and that vikings are easily rebuilt to deal with remaining carriers, no Protoss air is an option against a competent Terran user. Vikings actually win vs carriers and phoenixes, just not in 3v1/1v1. In a 3vs1 the carrier barely wins, because he doesn't lose any dps as it's being damaged, while if there are several carriers losing one will decrease their dps during combat. In a 6vs2 or a larger fight the vikings will win. In 1vs1 a phoenix beats a viking, but the phoenix costs more and the range advantage pays off more in larger battles. In a 7vs6 or 14vs12(equal cost if 1 gas = 2 minerals) fight, the vikings will win. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:05 Agh wrote: Didn't really care to watch the replays posted but just looking at the overview seems extremely flawed. Going to have the Observer out after the first immortal for vision. At that point front is either going to be breached, or I'm going to stop production and get my 3rd. I personally expect the 1:1:1 mass rine as it was more or less 80%+ of what the terrans were running before beta downtime, so I have my council built. If you didn't get stomped by the stalker + immortal + couple zealots then the expansion is free; Also I wont bother with charge once I see the lack of marines, and more importantly hellions as your non-gass dump units. Natural and dark shrine will go down without problem. If you siege turtle and take natural then a 3rd will be grabbed by the toss asap. While this is a nice strat on paper any player with barely semi-decent scouting should be able to stop this. Relying solely on the raven as a crutch for pdd and detection wont do much against stalkers that will have blink, and the warp prism to harass and drops. Just too gas heavy and without fear of the bio/infantry more or less forcing storm/collossi to compete just don't think it will fly. I can't stand it when people say "this strategy is flawed it can never work" when people like Avilo and myself have been using it since day 1 with great success. It's not flawed at all, the metagame for it is largely unexplored, and while you can theorycraft all day why its bad it works in game and that's all that matters. If you insist that ghostmech is ineffective then I'll play you once beta is back up to explore your concerns about it. | ||
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Calamity
Canada161 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:05 Agh wrote: Didn't really care to watch the replays posted but just looking at the overview seems extremely flawed. Going to have the Observer out after the first immortal for vision. At that point front is either going to be breached, or I'm going to stop production and get my 3rd. I personally expect the 1:1:1 mass rine as it was more or less 80%+ of what the terrans were running before beta downtime, so I have my council built. If you didn't get stomped by the stalker + immortal + couple zealots then the expansion is free; Also I wont bother with charge once I see the lack of marines, and more importantly hellions as your non-gass dump units. Natural and dark shrine will go down without problem. If you siege turtle and take natural then a 3rd will be grabbed by the toss asap. While this is a nice strat on paper any player with barely semi-decent scouting should be able to stop this. Relying solely on the raven as a crutch for pdd and detection wont do much against stalkers that will have blink, and the warp prism to harass and drops. Just too gas heavy and without fear of the bio/infantry more or less forcing storm/collossi to compete just don't think it will fly. Well everything can look nice on paper and perform horribly in game. For example, your strategy you posted to stop this ghost mech looks good, but you really need to test it in game as well. But of course beta is down and you can't really test it  | ||
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eXigent.
Canada2419 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:38 Floophead_III wrote: I can't stand it when people say "this strategy is flawed it can never work" when people like Avilo and myself have been using it since day 1 with great success. It's not flawed at all, the metagame for it is largely unexplored, and while you can theorycraft all day why its bad it works in game and that's all that matters. If you insist that ghostmech is ineffective then I'll play you once beta is back up to explore your concerns about it. I agree with your statement. The ghost mech opening has been used on protoss players that are much better than Agh, with replays posted to back it up (that he didnt watch ofc) yet magically this build wouldnt stand a chance against him, or any other player that can "scout". Typical response from someone who has no idea what he is actually debating. | ||
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Shron
United States162 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On July 06 2010 07:39 Shron wrote: Has this build been used in any tournaments by Terrans other than avilo? It'd be cool to see some different styles and more Protoss responses to this mech play. I have used this in tournaments but I only played a handful of them. I never really was good enough at all 3 matchups to make it far in tournaments, so I think I only played maybe a half dozen matches with ghostmech. What you'd be looking for is replays, and I don't know how many there are out there. I also reformatted so I don't have mine anymore (not that they're current for the recent patches anyways). It's really not a good idea to use older games as a basis for builds, just overarching strategy. I'd suggest playing against an AI with these mech builds and see what gives you the most trouble. It's good to view things from both viewpoints. | ||
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InTriX
United Kingdom149 Posts
Vikings will have phoenix to shoot at or void rays. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On July 06 2010 09:52 InTriX wrote: I only read the overview of the OP however I would like to know how you deal with immortals that are in warp prisms (asuming they avoide the EMP and then get dropped on your tanks) as your ghosts are the only things that can shoot up. If I missed somthing then forgive me but 10 pages is too much to read. Vikings will have phoenix to shoot at or void rays. Immortal drops are strongest earlygame (like reavers). You always have 4+ marines to help kill prisms. You also EMP the immortals when they drop down. Basically a combo of well positioned turrets and marines and a ghost will serve as good AA. They work well vs voidrays too to give you time to get vikings out. | ||
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CraftyStars
Canada47 Posts
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InTriX
United Kingdom149 Posts
On July 06 2010 10:09 Floophead_III wrote: Immortal drops are strongest earlygame (like reavers). You always have 4+ marines to help kill prisms. You also EMP the immortals when they drop down. Basically a combo of well positioned turrets and marines and a ghost will serve as good AA. They work well vs voidrays too to give you time to get vikings out. I don't mean as a drop, I mean as your army. Similar to how zerg break mech they drop from overlords all over the siege tanks, while attacking with the other half of their army. Protoss could engage the front with charge lots to take the emps move in sentries with void rays and then prisms drop immortals on the tanks. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
The reason zerg can do it is because they have 20 shuttles lying around so they can mass drop easily. You'd have to invest 200 minerals + robo build time for the same effect. Would you rather have 5 shuttles or 10 zealots? Often just 1 shuttle would accomplish the same thing. You could certainly try it, but keep in mind how ridiculously weak warp prisms are. 1 turret and a couple ghosts and they are gonna drop real fast. | ||
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Kazragore
United States369 Posts
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Calamity
Canada161 Posts
On July 07 2010 10:00 Kazragore wrote: Is there any way to watch the replays without a beta key? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127081 I'm not sure if you need the client or not, but with it I can watch pretty much all replays. | ||
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Kazragore
United States369 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127081 I'm not sure if you need the client or not, but with it I can watch pretty much all replays. Thanks, I'll try it out | ||
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k0zz
Netherlands22 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
if some mod could edit title as "Ghost mech Terran + 1/1/1Raven vs Protoss" that'd be great  as for the guide, nothing really has changed so far one way or another despite tank nerfs and other buffs/nerfs, so should be good to go still | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On July 11 2010 12:25 avilo wrote: I just edited OP with 1/1/1 next to raven opening, as when I made this guide I did not realize it was referred to as 1/1/1 in korea or wherever. if some mod could edit title as "Ghost mech Terran + 1/1/1Raven vs Protoss" that'd be great as for the guide, nothing really has changed so far one way or another despite tank nerfs and other buffs/nerfs, so should be good to go still I find the tank change does hurt a little bit vs stalkers/zealots, but not terribly. I know you're a fan of making vikings/ravens but I actually am finding that just having a handful of marines/ghosts does fine to support vs phoenix/voidray. I actually think I'd rather save the money and just get more of a ground army. I like to avoid starports if I can. | ||
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ahcho00
United States220 Posts
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