EPTI tend to aim for SCVs if I actually get in to harass. Terran and Zerg share the problem in that their workers are lessened while making structures. Hampering their ability to gather AND build at the same time is usually the better way to go.
[D] Killing an SCV vs killing a Mule - Page 2
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the-darkest-templar
United States32 Posts
I tend to aim for SCVs if I actually get in to harass. Terran and Zerg share the problem in that their workers are lessened while making structures. Hampering their ability to gather AND build at the same time is usually the better way to go. | ||
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
this isn't right at all | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
starcraft is a game of cutting corners and building up small advantages, one on top of another, and eventually coming out so far ahead that theres no other option but to win | ||
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stink123
United States241 Posts
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Nivra
37 Posts
A mule averages 240-270 mins mined during its lifespan. Their expected loss from losing a mule is 120-135 mins. Thus, killing the mule instead of the SCV costs the Terran 53-68 mins relative mins. That single SCV can mine 53-68 mins in 53-68 seconds at 1 min/second. 1 min/second mining rate only occurs pre-16 SCV saturation. SCV production time is 20 seconds(?? - I don't remember here - it may be 25). Thus, if he has <13 SCV's, then killing an SCV costs him more minerals than a mule. At 14+ SCV's, the mule most likely will cost him more minerals. 1.33 SCV's can mine 53-68 mins in 39-51 seconds. This makes the cutoff 14 SCV's. The 14 SCV cutoff may rise higher depending on the relative min/sec mining speed of SCV's #17-21. Considering the expected lifespan of a killed mule is 45 seconds, and the SCV mining times we're looking at are in the same ballpark, the immediate economic impact is similar. There is a slight argument here whether the 50 SCV min cost can be immediately deducted (he's chaining SCV's anyways, and won't be forced to spend that 50 until he saturates). To summarize: (1) How many SCV's does he have? Less than 14? Kill the SCV. (2) Do you want to do more long-term econ damage, or short-term econ damage where short term is <60 seconds? Short-term? kill the mule. Long-term? Kill the SCV. | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15324 Posts
On April 25 2010 12:12 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: killing mules is just so so much better. starcraft is a game of cutting corners and building up small advantages, one on top of another, and eventually coming out so far ahead that theres no other option but to win On April 25 2010 12:07 GreggSauce wrote: uh... you should always kill mules, you should never try to kill an SCV, seriously this isn't right at all Either present an argument for why you think killing a MULE is better that refutes the OP or just don't post. You are wasting space. Excellent thread btw OP, we need more of these contributions towards figuring the game out. Question: If you have unit bars turned on, do you see the energy on enemy mules? | ||
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Three
Japan278 Posts
Health of Mule: 60 This cannot be left out of the real calculation | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
When making mathematical analysis, you should shy away from making statements like, "it is better to kill of a scv/mule in the long run" because you are using YOUR definition of what is better, but that may not be the same definition to someone else. The mathematical fact is that in the long run the T player will lose out on more minerals from killing the scv rather than the mule. This is because an scv can continue mining for the entire game, and therefore has no cap on the number of minerals he can mine(excluding mining out the map, which is hardly relevant). However, you have to take into account the time value of money, just like interest. Minerals NOW are better than minerals in the future. If you had the option of getting 400 minerals at the beginning of the game versus 400 minerals 5 minutes into the game, which would you choose? The same concept applies to mule's and scvs. While an scv will eventually mine more than the mule, the huge influx of minerals in a short period from the mule is weighted by the fact that those minerals are coming in extremely fast. So instead of trying to compare the total difference in minerals mined, you would need to come up with an interest value of sorts that says, just how valuable are those extra minerals in the near future as compared to the total minerals he will get down the road. | ||
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xnub
Canada610 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:20 zatic wrote: Either present an argument for why you think killing a MULE is better that refutes the OP or just don't post. You are wasting space. Excellent thread btw OP, we need more of these contributions towards figuring the game out. Question: If you have unit bars turned on, do you see the energy on enemy mules? Na you can't see as far as i have seen. That would be a bit strange if you could with hallucination and stuff. Still like killing the gas scv everyone allways forgets to put the right # back on | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Pokornyx
United States19 Posts
Another factor: how big is your harrassment army? if you're just going in early with a reaper or two and you just want to make a quick hit and run, is it worth it to take that extra bit of time to kill the Mule (it has 15 more hp than an SVC)? I would rather just get a few quick SCV kills as opposed to a slightly longer Mule kill, especially if he hasnt fully saturated his mineral line quite yet. | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
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Dr.Frost
United States389 Posts
Am I wrong about something here? | ||
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
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omninmo
2349 Posts
if you pop in and are just gonna get one kill before two marines snipe your reaper.. then kill that mule... if you pop-in with 3-4 reapers and he is short of marines then obviously leave the mule alone and kill as many as SCVs as possible. | ||
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striphe
United States15 Posts
On April 25 2010 03:01 The6357 wrote: I swear to god there is gonna be masters degree offered for SC2 in universities in near future... There are classes on BW offered at Berkley Link Kill the MULE if its an early harass, jeez. The OC just went up so the MULE has a considerable amount of time on its lifespan. Closer to mid game hit the SCVs. There is no need to break down the targeting that much, focus on getting your macro up and not losing the reaper. | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
The reaction of a player who sees his scvs die instead of mules is probably increased confidence since he'll see it as a noob mistake. -> Increased confidence-> playing better. And the opposite reaction when killing his mules. There's situations where killing the scvs is the better choice economically but I don't think it's enough to make it an overall better option. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On April 25 2010 02:35 Sky101 wrote: I thought SCV saturation level is about 16? I mean, 2 SCV's on a patch is a LITTLE BIT over-saturated, assuming one SCV starts mining immediately after the other is done, you'll soon see that after 2-3 trips, 1 SCV will have to wait for the other to finish mining. I thought the math is clear?? full saturation is 3 scvs per mineral patch. 2 workers saturates 1 mining patch perfectly (they both mine at the same speed as they would mine separately). If u add more than 3 scvs per mineral patch, mineral income won't increase. | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On April 25 2010 02:34 Chairman Ray wrote: hmm, good find. I will definitely start killing SCVs from now on. Don't be so quick - Terran works on the fact that they have mules to help them 'get ahead'. While it may seem beneficial in the long run, cutting down their resource intake earlier in the game also affects them significantly down the line. | ||
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