On April 25 2010 02:22 fdsdfg wrote:
Constants:

SCV Cost: 50
SCV Build time: 17s
SCV Collection rate: 1 min / s
SCV Saturation level: 22

Mule lifespan: 90s
Mule collection rate: 3 min / s

I'm pretty sure it was closer to 0.666 minerals /second, around 37.5-40 per minute.

Weerwolf

75 Posts

July 24 2013 07:10 GMT

#102

On July 22 2013 23:31 Weerwolf wrote:
SCV's
39 – 45 1scv minerals per game-minute
78 – 90 2scv minerals per game-minute
102 3scv minerals per game-minute
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Resources#Mining_Rates

An scv gets 45 minerals p/m. 45/60 = 0,75 minerals p/s.

-Hitman-

56 Posts

July 24 2013 09:22 GMT

#103

Perhaps we could include variable like mule frequenzy (number of orbitals available), because the energy gained on orbital is constant and assuming energy is only used on mules we could define some timings related to build orders where killing mules is particularly strong?

woreyour

582 Posts

July 24 2013 14:04 GMT

#104

Does anyone feel like the terran's early mules are crucial than SCVs?

I mean the early mules could really mess up the build and timing while the SCVs are not really that big.

(we assuming the you are just going to kill one SCV or Mule since killing a lot would not be the thing we are discussing here.)

weikor

Austria580 Posts

July 31 2013 13:20 GMT

#105

On July 24 2013 23:04 woreyour wrote:
Does anyone feel like the terran's early mules are crucial than SCVs?

I mean the early mules could really mess up the build and timing while the SCVs are not really that big.

(we assuming the you are just going to kill one SCV or Mule since killing a lot would not be the thing we are discussing here.)

Then again, if you're killing his SCV you are probably messing up his build already.

And you forget to factor in that if you kill an SCV - if he expands early enough not to transfer 22 scv for full saturation - he will be missing that one worker every time he expands.

[F_]aths

Germany3947 Posts

July 31 2013 13:55 GMT

#106

On July 24 2013 06:12 nickyboy909 wrote:
Really interesting thread. I was thinking about this myself a little while ago. It seems that the correct choice varies according to the situation. I think a lot of times though that killing SCVs would be better because when you think about it... if you 'kill' a mule you never really kill it, just put it out of commission for a while, depending on how fresh it is. To really KILL a mule, you'd have to kill an orbital... which is unlikely to happen.

If you kill a mule, it goes away for a little while, but comes back when the energy regens. When you kill an SCV, it's gone until the terran stops making SCVs. Usually terrans will continue constant SCV production until 70 or so and won't stop until that point unless doing some sort of timing attack or something. Say you kill one SCV when the terran has 25 SCVs. He now has 24 SCVs and is building another. Let's say it comes out 17 seconds later. After 17 seconds, he has 25 SCVs again, but in reality he's still missing a worker, because had you not killed that SCV, he would have 26 SCVs at this point, so really, an SCV is still dead and not collecting. This continues until the terran stops producing workers, which can be a LONG time from then.

EDIT: also, killing an SCV forces the terran to build a new one, costing 50 minerals, where killing a mule forces nothing. He will simply drop another when he has the energy. No extra cost to him.

Opportunity cost. Since energy is no unlimited resource, he does have a cost.

thezanursic

5500 Posts

July 31 2013 14:23 GMT

#107

Well if you are comitting to an all-in for instance it would be smarter to kill the mule as the SCV won't be able to pay for itself yet and you also have to consider that you can't actually see how much it has mined yet. So unless you see him call down a mule OR you have some kind of insane inner clock to know exactly how long it has been since the last 50 energy on the OC you really won't know if you've killed 270 minerals worth.

If you are preparing an all-in and happen to have a chance to kill either a fresh mule (that you've just seen plop down) and an SCV. The mule is the better choice, but I don't really think even Code S players take that into consideration.

Fencar

United States2694 Posts

July 31 2013 14:53 GMT

#108

I prefer killing MULEs, especially in the early game, since one MULE mines as fast as 4 SCV's, you effectively remove 4 SCV's from the Terran's economy for the remaining duration of the MULE.

As opposed to killing an SCV which technically hurts more, but it's over a longer period of time so it's not as profoundly felt, where on the other hand killing the MULE could mean that the Terran has to choose between building more marines or building more SCV's or building more production, which is psychologically taxing as well as if he misses an SCV or two due to this, then it hurts even more.

The_Unseen

France1923 Posts

July 31 2013 15:10 GMT

#109

The amount of bronziness in this post is fucking off the charts

xsnac

Barbados1365 Posts

July 31 2013 15:57 GMT

#110

i still dont understand from the op wich one is better .
talking in % like 60% of times is better to kill a scv 40% is better to kill a scv ...
can some1 explain to me wich one is better overall ?

Thieving Magpie

United States6752 Posts

July 31 2013 16:03 GMT

#111

On August 01 2013 00:57 xsnac wrote:
i still dont understand from the op wich one is better .
talking in % like 60% of times is better to kill a scv 40% is better to kill a scv ...
can some1 explain to me wich one is better overall ?

Mules at 50% time mines as much as an SCV (close enough)

Mules have 60hp, SCVs have 45

Kill new mules, but if the mule has only half its timer left, kill SCVs.

On average you will meet mules at half health, play it safe and kill SCVs unless you see the mule landing with your two eyes. (or one, I guess, if that's all you have.)