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[D] Killing an SCV vs killing a Mule - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
July 24 2013 01:00 GMT
#101
On April 25 2010 02:22 fdsdfg wrote:
Constants:

SCV Cost: 50
SCV Build time: 17s
SCV Collection rate: 1 min / s
SCV Saturation level: 22

Mule lifespan: 90s
Mule collection rate: 3 min / s


I'm pretty sure it was closer to 0.666 minerals /second, around 37.5-40 per minute.
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Weerwolf
Profile Joined November 2010
75 Posts
July 24 2013 07:10 GMT
#102
On July 22 2013 23:31 Weerwolf wrote:
SCV's
39 – 45 1scv minerals per game-minute
78 – 90 2scv minerals per game-minute
102 3scv minerals per game-minute
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Resources#Mining_Rates

An scv gets 45 minerals p/m. 45/60 = 0,75 minerals p/s.

-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
July 24 2013 09:22 GMT
#103
Perhaps we could include variable like mule frequenzy (number of orbitals available), because the energy gained on orbital is constant and assuming energy is only used on mules we could define some timings related to build orders where killing mules is particularly strong?

woreyour
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
582 Posts
July 24 2013 14:04 GMT
#104
Does anyone feel like the terran's early mules are crucial than SCVs?

I mean the early mules could really mess up the build and timing while the SCVs are not really that big.

(we assuming the you are just going to kill one SCV or Mule since killing a lot would not be the thing we are discussing here.)
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weikor
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria580 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 13:21:00
July 31 2013 13:20 GMT
#105
On July 24 2013 23:04 woreyour wrote:
Does anyone feel like the terran's early mules are crucial than SCVs?

I mean the early mules could really mess up the build and timing while the SCVs are not really that big.

(we assuming the you are just going to kill one SCV or Mule since killing a lot would not be the thing we are discussing here.)


Then again, if you're killing his SCV you are probably messing up his build already.

And you forget to factor in that if you kill an SCV - if he expands early enough not to transfer 22 scv for full saturation - he will be missing that one worker every time he expands.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
July 31 2013 13:55 GMT
#106
On July 24 2013 06:12 nickyboy909 wrote:
Really interesting thread. I was thinking about this myself a little while ago. It seems that the correct choice varies according to the situation. I think a lot of times though that killing SCVs would be better because when you think about it... if you 'kill' a mule you never really kill it, just put it out of commission for a while, depending on how fresh it is. To really KILL a mule, you'd have to kill an orbital... which is unlikely to happen.

If you kill a mule, it goes away for a little while, but comes back when the energy regens. When you kill an SCV, it's gone until the terran stops making SCVs. Usually terrans will continue constant SCV production until 70 or so and won't stop until that point unless doing some sort of timing attack or something. Say you kill one SCV when the terran has 25 SCVs. He now has 24 SCVs and is building another. Let's say it comes out 17 seconds later. After 17 seconds, he has 25 SCVs again, but in reality he's still missing a worker, because had you not killed that SCV, he would have 26 SCVs at this point, so really, an SCV is still dead and not collecting. This continues until the terran stops producing workers, which can be a LONG time from then.

EDIT: also, killing an SCV forces the terran to build a new one, costing 50 minerals, where killing a mule forces nothing. He will simply drop another when he has the energy. No extra cost to him.

Opportunity cost. Since energy is no unlimited resource, he does have a cost.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5478 Posts
July 31 2013 14:23 GMT
#107
Well if you are comitting to an all-in for instance it would be smarter to kill the mule as the SCV won't be able to pay for itself yet and you also have to consider that you can't actually see how much it has mined yet. So unless you see him call down a mule OR you have some kind of insane inner clock to know exactly how long it has been since the last 50 energy on the OC you really won't know if you've killed 270 minerals worth.

If you are preparing an all-in and happen to have a chance to kill either a fresh mule (that you've just seen plop down) and an SCV. The mule is the better choice, but I don't really think even Code S players take that into consideration.
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Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
July 31 2013 14:53 GMT
#108
I prefer killing MULEs, especially in the early game, since one MULE mines as fast as 4 SCV's, you effectively remove 4 SCV's from the Terran's economy for the remaining duration of the MULE.

As opposed to killing an SCV which technically hurts more, but it's over a longer period of time so it's not as profoundly felt, where on the other hand killing the MULE could mean that the Terran has to choose between building more marines or building more SCV's or building more production, which is psychologically taxing as well as if he misses an SCV or two due to this, then it hurts even more.
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The_Unseen
Profile Joined March 2011
France1923 Posts
July 31 2013 15:10 GMT
#109
The amount of bronziness in this post is fucking off the charts
I got five reasons for you to shut up
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
July 31 2013 15:57 GMT
#110
i still dont understand from the op wich one is better .
talking in % like 60% of times is better to kill a scv 40% is better to kill a scv ...
can some1 explain to me wich one is better overall ?
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
July 31 2013 16:03 GMT
#111
On August 01 2013 00:57 xsnac wrote:
i still dont understand from the op wich one is better .
talking in % like 60% of times is better to kill a scv 40% is better to kill a scv ...
can some1 explain to me wich one is better overall ?


Mules at 50% time mines as much as an SCV (close enough)

Mules have 60hp, SCVs have 45

Kill new mules, but if the mule has only half its timer left, kill SCVs.

On average you will meet mules at half health, play it safe and kill SCVs unless you see the mule landing with your two eyes. (or one, I guess, if that's all you have.)
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
July 31 2013 16:20 GMT
#112
On August 01 2013 01:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 00:57 xsnac wrote:
i still dont understand from the op wich one is better .
talking in % like 60% of times is better to kill a scv 40% is better to kill a scv ...
can some1 explain to me wich one is better overall ?


Mules at 50% time mines as much as an SCV (close enough)

Mules have 60hp, SCVs have 45

Kill new mules, but if the mule has only half its timer left, kill SCVs.

On average you will meet mules at half health, play it safe and kill SCVs unless you see the mule landing with your two eyes. (or one, I guess, if that's all you have.)


thanks . op should put this on the first page .

so ppl kill scv unless you see mule landing .
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
July 31 2013 16:28 GMT
#113
On August 01 2013 01:20 xsnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 01:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On August 01 2013 00:57 xsnac wrote:
i still dont understand from the op wich one is better .
talking in % like 60% of times is better to kill a scv 40% is better to kill a scv ...
can some1 explain to me wich one is better overall ?


Mules at 50% time mines as much as an SCV (close enough)

Mules have 60hp, SCVs have 45

Kill new mules, but if the mule has only half its timer left, kill SCVs.

On average you will meet mules at half health, play it safe and kill SCVs unless you see the mule landing with your two eyes. (or one, I guess, if that's all you have.)


thanks . op should put this on the first page .

so ppl kill scv unless you see mule landing .


Theoretically yes, I didn't actually test/ran the numbers myself; just basing it off what the OP says.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
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